New Pickup. Pied or Leopard Pied?

we picked up this little girl today. possible leopard pied. pairing was a male leopard pied (leopard x het pied) to a female pied. she doesn't look like a typical piebald to me. different pattern. crazy oranges. either way, she was priced as a normal pied since the breeder couldn't say for sure if she had leopard in her. so if she does, we just got a deal. only time will tell for sure. i know some people that have experience with leopard pieds claim they can tell the difference. opinions?

iphone pics for now. these don't really capture her oranges, but i'll bust out the dslr when i get the chance.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/29/egemumuv.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/29/yza3yjed.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/29/eba9a4et.jpg

That's a tough call there. It definitely has a leopard look to it. But I don't have any true experience with them. Doesn't look like a typical pied pattern though. To me at least.

Looks pretty leopard to me :) Either way, lovely pick up! !

It looks promising. Good luck proving her out! :)

Looking leopardy to me

She's beautiful!!

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Saw you (I think) looking at that girl today, congrats!

Im going 100% Leopard...........Nice pick up...

Leopard piebald

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

we picked up this little girl today. possible leopard pied. pairing was a male leopard pied (leopard x het pied) to a female pied. she doesn't look like a typical piebald to me. different pattern. crazy oranges. either way, she was priced as a normal pied since the breeder couldn't say for sure if she had leopard in her. so if she does, we just got a deal. only time will tell for sure. i know some people that have experience with leopard pieds claim they can tell the difference. opinions?

iphone pics for now. these don't really capture her oranges, but i'll bust out the dslr when i get the chance.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/29/egemumuv.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/29/yza3yjed.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/29/eba9a4et.jpg

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Where u get her from? What it cost u?

Looks like a leopard pied to me.......Are you a Crown Royal distributor or what? Lots of boxes of crown in those pics. LOL

She seems to be a chimaira (or paradox) pied. The rear half of her seems to have the normal pied pattern along with the normal pied hatchling orange(tends to brown out with age) while the front half has a completely different pattern and color then the rear. I cant tell from the pics, is there any solid white "pied" section in that front half where the leo type pattern is?

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Originally Posted by joebad976

Looks like a leopard pied to me.......Are you a Crown Royal distributor or what? Lots of boxes of crown in those pics. LOL

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no i just work at a liquor store. lol dad picked this little girl up at a local show that i couldnt attend because i had to work. he stopped by my work on the way home to show me what he got. lol

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

She seems to be a chimaira (or paradox) pied. The rear half of her seems to have the normal pied pattern along with the normal pied hatchling orange(tends to brown out with age) while the front half has a completely different pattern and color then the rear. I cant tell from the pics, is there any solid white "pied" section in that front half where the leo type pattern is?

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nope. just a little white coming up the sides but thats it.

Bucking the trend. I say a freaky Pied. Nice one at that.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

nope. just a little white coming up the sides but thats it.

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Then my vote remains with a chimaira pied. What the second gene is im not real sure, as im very new to leo and leo crosses. I have seen one similar animal at a local expo, but the second gene was unknown. The pairing in that case was a het pied male to a visual female. Nothing in eithers records showed any other gene besides pied being bred in, so this is a bit of mystery. In any case, i would call this a keeper of a beautiful pied. If she turns out to be more than that, well honus. Best of luck with this girl.

Just curious, will you be breeding this girl?

Chimeras do not actually happen all that often. You would think they occurred every day with the number of paradox snakes out there being called chimera.

I'm going with a neat looking pied until it proves otherwise. Congrats on a cool pickup!

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Originally Posted by The Snakery

Chimeras do not actually happen all that often. You would think they occurred every day with the number of paradox snakes out there being called chimera.

I'm going with a neat looking pied until it proves otherwise. Congrats on a cool pickup!

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I agree they are no where near as common as people think. To be honest no one as of yet(that i know of) knows the real difference between a paradox and a true chimaira. Though this one shares enough traits with a known chimaira that i have had the luck of handling, that i am confident in saying this has a better then average chance of being a real one. If it proves to be or not, well no one knows yet but i think chances are decent. Believe me im not one to just jump to chimaira, as you said they are extremely rare.

I think we all can agree on that this is a beauty of a pied regardless, so well worth the purchase tk me. Though I AM a pued addict LOL:rolleye2:

I'm still not seeing any evidence of chimerism... Those patches at the lower half are too small to really determine if it's leopard or pied, IMO. Plus, pied pattern in general are so variable that I don't think anything can be concluded without breeding it out.

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

I agree they are no where near as common as people think. To be honest no one as of yet(that i know of) knows the real difference between a paradox and a true chimaira. Though this one shares enough traits with a known chimaira that i have had the luck of handling, that i am confident in saying this has a better then average chance of being a real one. If it proves to be or not, well no one knows yet but i think chances are decent. Believe me im not one to just jump to chimaira, as you said they are extremely rare.

I think we all can agree on that this is a beauty of a pied regardless, so well worth the purchase tk me. Though I AM a pued addict LOL:rolleye2:

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Oh I agree the snake looks very interesting. It is as if two snakes were put together in the middle; The front half looks like a low white pied and the back half looks like a leopard pied.

If you do not mind me asking, how was the "known chimera" proved to be chimera? Did they actually do DNA testing? Very cool to actually see one.

The person who kept him was a student at Texas A&M. It was a donation to him as his field of study was mainly targeted at genetics and mutations with in them(such as radiation, random mutations ETC). The previous owner knew he had something strange, but didnt know what caused it or even what "IT" is.

So after years of keeping the animal(was a herp head LOL) it was coming close to time for his thesis. He decided to use the animal he had been keeping for an experiment. He basicly took a sample scale from two areas of the animal, one from each patterned area. After initial testing they showed different genetic structure. So he took a minimally invasive sample.of flesh from under each area, these showed to be nearly identical with minimal differences. His proffesor agreed he had a "true chimaira". Sadly his works were shrugged off due to some technical error he made while doing his experiments, so were never deemed worthy of being printed in any scientific publication. They all claimed the risk was too high of damaging their own credibility. According to his proffesor though, the error that occured(not sure what it was) would NOT have effected the end results of the genetic testing.

This experiment was later verified when the animal was bred. The animal was a fire/pastel. When bred to two fire females one year it produced lucies. The following year when bred to a pair of pastel females a friend had, it produced supers. Originaly the animal was thought to have just been a "unique fire" with odd coloration in patches and mild pattern changes. So in my opinion, this was proof positive this animal was a chimaira. Though much of the evidence was no admissible to any science publications. Sadly the animal has since passed, and my friend has moved on with his career. Is a shame, at one point one of his goals was to geneticly map all morphs. So basicly you could take your group of possible hets, have them tested and find out for sure which were and which werent. Sadly seems he has lost his passion.