2013 Extreme Ringer Clutch

Here is a post shed picture of the Pied x Extreme Ringer clutch. I wasn't aware that either was het albino so imagine my surprise when these were the first two to hatch. There were also two white snakes that died as they came out of the egg. I had folks telling me that the champ ringer was a pied so I wanted to prove it one way or another this year. I did prove that she wasn't a pied since there was a regular albino (het pied) in the clutch but could she be het albino and het pied? Or is this an albino extreme ringer? It doesn't feel like I cleared up much :confuzd:

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...ngerclutch.jpg

What amazing luck! Thats awesome.

Nice babies and even better luck! Sorry for the two you lost, but gotta love ringers that give you some cool animals. Congrats!

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

Here is a post shed picture of the Pied x Extreme Ringer clutch. I wasn't aware that either was het albino so imagine my surprise when these were the first two to hatch. There were also two white snakes that died as they came out of the egg. I had folks telling me that the champ ringer was a pied so I wanted to prove it one way or another this year. I did prove that she wasn't a pied since there was a regular albino (het pied) in the clutch but could she be het albino and het pied? Or is this an albino extreme ringer? It doesn't feel like I cleared up much :confuzd: [/IMG]

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I would think producing an ERing from a parent pretty much known not to be het pied would pretty much prove it, but from my understanding havn't you done that already?

is the one on the right an albino pied?

or can a ringer really be so extreme that everything except head and neck is turned white?

consider the awesomeness of randomly having an albino pied pop out of a pied clutch. unbelievable. unlikely as it seems, its hard for me to see how the one on the right could NOT be an albino pied. i mean, can just a ringer be so extreme that the ring covers 90% of the body?

seems like you got yourself into an albino pied project just with an insane amount of love from the odd gods. you have an albino het pied, and you now know that your pied is a pied het albino, and you have a possible visual albino pied.

i would totally buy unrelated 100% double-het albino pieds from a different breeder and go for it. (i would try to avoid inbreeding because of the two all-white mystery BPs that died after hatching; im thinking maybe you also hit another recessive gene that produces all-white BPs that die).

anyway, congratulations, you really got lucky with these!

That's awesome!!! I love when breedings pop up something completely unexpected

This is probably a stupid question from an untrained amateur eye, but can we deduce anything from the different head patterns on these two babies? IE. One is an albino and the other is a pied albino (can one recessive gene "dominate" another?)? Let me make sure I've got the parents straight - dad was a pied and mom was a champagne ringer?

Second, and no offense, but the body of the one on the right freaks me out. Looks like a chewed up piece of bubble gum or taffy all twisted.

I've posted other information regarding the extreme ringers so I didn't want to go through it all again. If you're interested just search Extreme Ringer for the history and other clutches this snake produced. Please let me know if you have any questions.

The original extreme ringer:
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...eroneggs-1.jpg

Some babies when I bred her with a fire with a small ringer, neither parents are het pied as far as I know:
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...Champagnes.jpg

I dunno', man. You got me. :confusd:

Left one looks like a regular albino to me based upon the head. One on the right looks like an albino pied based on the head.

Has anyone produced a known champagne pied yet? If so, I'm not seeing it on WOBP. Maybe the two just interact differently than what we're used to seeing with pieds? I seem to have noticed that a lot of champagnes are also ringers. I know nobody's got an albino-pied-champagne. I just can't picture it being an albino ringer with that big of a ring and no cut-off line. Then again, I probably wouldn't have expected albinos to pop out of those eggs either.

You sure you didn't mark the clutch wrong or switch it around or something? I'm reeaaaally wishing I had 4k sitting around to snatch up that fire-pied-ringer-albino-abomination thing you got there. What the heck you feeding your critters, man?

Brock, I've seen one picture of a supposed champ pied and it looked like a spied with champ coloring, just a small cap on it's head. The funny thing about the "cut-off line" is that the above babies didn't have it either when they hatched.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...13ERChamps.jpg

I know I didn't mix up the clutches. I only have one regular albino and she produced candinos for me earlier this season.

I see an albino and a champagne albino extreme ringer there. Could be an albino pied champ too.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I know I didn't mix up the clutches. I only have one regular albino and she produced candinos for me earlier this season.

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LoL. I's just messing with you about that part.

Seems like a pretty good explanation at this point though. :P

I'll be interested to see if the one on the right does develop a cut-off line. But, I guess you don't really see that in the albino pieds anyway, so I wouldn't expect it.

Regardless, you got some bad-bad critters there.

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Originally Posted by BWyant

I'll be interested to see if the one on the right does develop a cut-off line. But, I guess you don't really see that in the albino pieds anyway, so I wouldn't expect it.

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Is there a proper name for a cut-off line?

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Originally Posted by BWyant

Is there a proper name for a cut-off line?

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Discontinuation Boundary




well maybe not, but it sounds fancier :D

Has anyone considered that this extreme ringer is its own new gene yet not recessive. Perhaps it is a dominant gene. Kind of cool that both snakes were het albino. I think it is an extreme ringer albino baby and also think you need to select a good name for your new morph.

assumption: extreme ringer = pied. or its at least similar to pied and allelic with pied.

disprove me. im not convinced that this is a radically new gene.

If extreme ringer = pied then extreme ringer x pied would yield all pied which we saw did not; the albino baby. I think it is a different type of pied gene, a dominant not recessive since he gets extreme ringers using all different males.

either way Dave, those are awesome animals, congrats!

That baby on the right is crazy looking! The head pattern looks pretty unusual for a typical albino cross, maybe albino champagne extreme ringer?

Either way gorgeous babies :gj:

U lucky SOB! jk, congrats!! Can i see a full body shot?

Very nice Dave. Send them my way.

Thanks everyone!!

I posted this in the other thread but figured I should add it here:

The one thing I did prove was that the extreme ringer can't be a pied or else I wouldn't of hatched a normal looking albino. She could be het pied but that would be a stretch but still possible.

Some have suggested that the albino with the white body may be an albino champagne extreme ringer but she doesn't look like a champagne to me. If she isn't a champagne I would be pretty excited as this would be the first time I hatched a non-champagne extreme ringer.

After communicating with some other breeders and trying to figure out this clutch, I feel that the pied gene reacted with the extreme ringer "gene" to create the two white snakes. I'm sure there are other explanations but I feel that this makes the most sense; at least to me. It's hard to know for sure with one small clutch but those are my thoughts after talking with others. I could be wrong and I'm totally open to other ideas and theories.

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Has anyone considered that this extreme ringer is its own new gene yet not recessive. Perhaps it is a dominant gene. Kind of cool that both snakes were het albino. I think it is an extreme ringer albino baby and also think you need to select a good name for your new morph.

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I was thinkin the same thing!! If this trait keeps reproducing itself when bred to animals known to not be carrying the gene, well....

sent from my incubator

Even if the mystery continues this is very cool :gj:

I've always thought that champagne is just a gene that's prone to extreme ringers when combined with other genes (like fire and black pastel). Just a side effect of champagne combos?

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I've always thought that champagne is just a gene that's prone to extreme ringers when combined with other genes (like fire and black pastel). Just a side effect of champagne combos?

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True, some breeders have gotten very strong ringers when a couple/few genes were added; however, this line seems to have extreme ringers even with regular champagnes:

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...-13ERChamp.jpg

I've also talked with several breeders who've produced many more champagnes then I have, and while they've produced ringers they aren't nearly as extreme as these. I've never seen a fire champagne that looks like this:

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...ireERChamp.jpg

I do believe Brian and Pete Kahl was talking about how champagnes have effects like this sometimes and being very similar to pieds. I'll have to find the video or article, where I read this at.

I do agree with you Dave your extreme ringer champagne line is like no other, they are some awesome champs. :gj: