My BP drank from my bare hands again!

Over the past few months, whenever I change my BP 's (Athena) water, I'll wrap her around my neck. She usually droops down to see what I'm doing while I'm washing her bowl out. One time I filled her bowl up to see if she would drink while she was around my neck and I was holding her bowl and she did! I then wondered if she would drink from my bare hands. After only a week or two, she did! I was really excited. So now once per washout when she droops down, I'll cup my hands together and fill them with as much water as I can. Then I'll offer it to her to see what she does. It has been a few months since she drank out of my bare hands but she finally did it again today! Now the only challenge will be getting a picture/video of it...its hard to hold a camera when both of your hands are being used to hold water :D

Try it! You never know if your BP will do the same!

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Over the past few months, whenever I change my BP 's (Athena) water, I'll wrap her around my neck. She usually droops down to see what I'm doing while I'm washing her bowl out. One time I filled her bowl up to see if she would drink while she was around my neck and I was holding her bowl and she did! I then wondered if she would drink from my bare hands. After only a week or two, she did! I was really excited. So now once per washout when she droops down, I'll cup my hands together and fill them with as much water as I can. Then I'll offer it to her to see what she does. It has been a few months since she drank out of my bare hands but she finally did it again today! Now the only challenge will be getting a picture/video of it...its hard to hold a camera when both of your hands are being used to hold water :D

Try it! You never know if your BP will do the same!

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pretty cool

Really neat anecdote! Your Athena reminds me of my girl, not too bothered by much of anything and really comfortable/tolerant of handling. My girl's first shed happened in my hands! I cannot figure out how to post the vid of it for the life of me but what an experience! I'll be trying this hand "fed" water thing pretty soon! Thanks for sharing

WOW!! I have never even seen my 2012 female drink at all. Let alone been holding her when it happens.

that's actually really cool :) im jealous

Wait, pics or it didn't happen :P. I'm kidding but that's good and neat that you caught it.

That's a great experience.

Thanks for sharing. :)

Just love hearing stories of other bp's who are the family pet and act like it! :D

Thanks! She has been openly drinking in her cage even if I was around ever since I got her a little over a year and a half ago. She is currently my only BP (I'll be getting more eventually as soon as $ allows it) so I always find it strange to hear that most owners rarely see their snakes drink. I guess I just got the lucky exception right off the bat! lol

Thats awesome!! I think I am going to have to try it. I do have a BP that drinks water like its that last bowl of water in the world lol.

Just drank from my bare hands for the 3rd time ever today! I gotta get this on camera at some point!

I love watching my BP drink. Their heads just kinda pulsate... lol I'll have to try this once my guy is a bit bigger!

I've never heard of such a thing...that is just too cool for words! I'd love to see my kiddos drink at all.


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My normal seems alike. He also drinks his water in my presence and also is eating on dining table from hands :P There was this one feeding occasion he just didn't want to eat. He was in his enclosure as always when feeding, but this time he just hasn't had interest in food.

I gave up on feeding him on that day and he just seemed he wanted to stroll around our apartment, so ofcourse I took him out and let him roam. When he was on our dining table I offered him a food again. He came close to the rat had a smell and just started eating from my hand. Not striking not even constricting just eating like we do ;) Only after he had rats head in his mouse he coiled a bit around to hold it in it's place for eating :P

At the same moment my girlfriend was eating her pizza leftovers :rolleyes:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...11665467_n.jpg

Can't wait to see if I can get mine to drink from my hands :P

There are some crazy snakes running around :D

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Originally Posted by jxl

My normal seems alike. He also drinks his water in my presence and also is eating on dining table from hands :P There was this one feeding occasion he just didn't want to eat. He was in his enclosure as always when feeding, but this time he just hasn't had interest in food.

I gave up on feeding him on that day and he just seemed he wanted to stroll around our apartment, so ofcourse I took him out and let him roam. When he was on our dining table I offered him a food again. He came close to the rat had a smell and just started eating from my hand. Not striking not even constricting just eating like we do ;) Only after he had rats head in his mouse he coiled a bit around to hold it in it's place for eating :P

At the same moment my girlfriend was eating her pizza leftovers :rolleyes:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...11665467_n.jpg

Can't wait to see if I can get mine to drink from my hands :P

There are some crazy snakes running around :D

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See? And they say the days when the whole family gathered around the table for a meal are gone! How's that for a return to good old family values?

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Always cool to see the rarer side of ball python behavior - I can never pull myself away whenever I catch one of my BPs drinking

While some BPs can eat from your hand, it's not good to do it. With the smell of rodent and the heat signatures your snake could miss. Then when it lands on you and you freak out or accidentally go to yank your hand away you can cause an injury to your snake. So while I know this can be done, I honestly consider it a bad judgement call to do it. I in no way mean to offend you, but certain stuff you just don't want people to try because then when they get bit or if their parents see them get bit if they're under 18 it just creates another bad mark on our hobby.

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Originally Posted by Neal

While some BPs can eat from your hand, it's not good to do it. With the smell of rodent and the heat signatures your snake could miss. Then when it lands on you and you freak out or accidentally go to yank your hand away you can cause an injury to your snake. So while I know this can be done, I honestly consider it a bad judgement call to do it. I in no way mean to offend you, but certain stuff you just don't want people to try because then when they get bit or if their parents see them get bit if they're under 18 it just creates another bad mark on our hobby.

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If you back up and read it again, there was nothing said about a snake striking a hand held prey item. I don't know the behavior of the other poster's animal, but I DO know the behavior of my own.

While it may seem like a bad judgment call to you, the fact is that the behavior of an individual animal can be learned. From there, accurately predicting what that animal will do in a given situation becomes fairly simple. If you can use that knowledge to demonstrate things like this, like pythons showing recognition of people and taking food from their hands, you allow people to see that they're not dumb, dangerous animals. Far from being reckless, it shows what can be accomplished when you take the time to get to know an animal, respect its intelligence and develop some trust.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

If you back up and read it again, there was nothing said about a snake striking a hand held prey item. I don't know the behavior of the other poster's animal, but I DO know the behavior of my own.

While it may seem like a bad judgment call to you, the fact is that the behavior of an individual animal can be learned. From there, accurately predicting what that animal will do in a given situation becomes fairly simple. If you can use that knowledge to demonstrate things like this, like pythons showing recognition of people and taking food from their hands, you allow people to see that they're not dumb, dangerous animals. Far from being reckless, it shows what can be accomplished when you take the time to get to know an animal, respect its intelligence and develop some trust.

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Animals are animals and while you think you "learn" they're behavior, the fact is they're unpredictable. This is the reason you see people get killed or injured by large constrictors they thought they knew for the previous 10 years of owning it.

Now, if you would of realized that I wasn't talking to you in the first place, as I was referring to jxl's post where his BP is sitting on the table and he stated that it crawled up to his hand and took the rat out of his bare hands, you would of known that my original post wasn't even directed to you.

It's why I said, if the snake would of struck and missed.

Feeding and offering drink from the hands is so cool and sweet! I love when im holding my snakes and i i just put a rat in the tub and let then strike out of my hands. And if we get bit, oh well, certainly not ganna put a bad mark on the hobby unless your the biggest wino in the world and call up channel 6 news cause you got pricked with the least painful little pin prick youve ever felt. Hell getting bit by a bp is even cute.... And ive been bit hard by a 4850 gram hungry bp. I even knew it was coming, but i needed to weigh her and took her to my friends to feed her after. It left a bruise and looked brutal with blood coming down my arm but guess what, it didnt hurt. The fear is the only thing that hurts us, and i not a chicken when it comes to bp's........ lol:tears:

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Originally Posted by brokeballer

Feeding and offering drink from the hands is so cool and sweet! I love when im holding my snakes and i i just put a rat in the tub and let then strike out of my hands. And if we get bit, oh well, certainly not ganna put a bad mark on the hobby unless your the biggest wino in the world and call up channel 6 news cause you got pricked with the least painful little pin prick youve ever felt. Hell getting bit by a bp is even cute.... And ive been bit hard by a 4850 gram hungry bp. I even knew it was coming, but i needed to weigh her and took her to my friends to feed her after. It left a bruise and looked brutal with blood coming down my arm but guess what, it didnt hurt. The fear is the only thing that hurts us, and i not a chicken when it comes to bp's........ lol:tears:

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I'm not saying you, but we do have kids on this website that live with their parents and if they tried this because they seen it and thought it would be cool and got bit, that infact does put a mark on the hobby. Especially if the parents don't like snakes in the first place. Also they have kids that read these forums, my 8 year old nephew browses these forums occasionally. That's what I meant by a bad judgement call, now what you do behind closed doors is all on you.

I want to handle a cobra with my bare hands, but if I ever did, you won't see me posting about it. You just have to think about some stuff before you post because of the nature of the website.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Animals are animals and while you think you "learn" they're behavior, the fact is they're unpredictable. This is the reason you see people get killed or injured by large constrictors they thought they knew for the previous 10 years of owning it.

Now, if you would of realized that I wasn't talking to you in the first place, as I was referring to jxl's post where his BP is sitting on the table and he stated that it crawled up to his hand and took the rat out of his bare hands, you would of known that my original post wasn't even directed to you.

It's why I said, if the snake would of struck and missed.

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I'm assuming you don't own a dog or a cat. Both of those are far more dangerous and unpredictable than ball pythons. For the record, there are very few instances of 10ft+ snakes killing their owners. Even the HSUS only claims to know of seventeen cases of constrictor related deaths since 1978. The owners can't tell us what happened, and the snakes were never asked, but I can almost guarantee that we're talking about animals with next to no human interaction beyond the minimum for feeding and cleaning. Maybe when they were younger and more manageable, but not once they started getting some size. That's hardly a recipe for familiarity.

Now, as far as whether you were talking to me to begin with, no one said you were. You simply made an inaccurate generalization about a subject that's close to me. That's why I responded. Not because it was aimed at me.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

I'm assuming you don't own a dog or a cat. Both of those are far more dangerous and unpredictable than ball pythons. For the record, there are very few instances of 10ft+ snakes killing their owners. Even the HSUS only claims to know of seventeen cases of constrictor related deaths since 1978. The owners can't tell us what happened, and the snakes were never asked, but I can almost guarantee that we're talking about animals with next to no human interaction beyond the minimum for feeding and cleaning. Maybe when they were younger and more manageable, but not once they started getting some size. That's hardly a recipe for familiarity.

Now, as far as whether you were talking to me to begin with, no one said you were. You simply made an inaccurate generalization about a subject that's close to me. That's why I responded. Not because it was aimed at me.

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Were you there to know the fact? No, so don't presume to act like you do. I said it's a bad judgement call. I never said it couldn't be done. I never said dogs or cats were unpredictable either. I own a wolf, so I know of the risks but you don't see me over here advertising it either.

You said I didn't read a few posts up where it never struck. I wasn't even referring to anything you said, I never said it struck either, I said it could of and missed. You just don't know. I did not make an inaccurate generalization, I said it's a bad judgement call to sit here and advertise it. You could have your animal for 25 years, and it never bite you, and you deal with it several times a week. That doesn't mean you know your animal. Snakes can't learn, sure they can associate smells with experiences. If you honestly think you know your snake and know it won't do something, then you're either blind or found something that's legal to smoke, and have had way too much of it. Snakes are awesome pets, and I think it sucks that people look down on them due to fears and such. But snakes a primitive species with little reasoning skills. They can't be trained to sit or fetch, roll over or play dead. Snakes react mainly from instincts.

We can continue this all day long if you'd like but common sense always triumphs in the end.

EDIT:
Also your assumption is as blank as the peoples assumption of what happened. I know people that have been bit by snakes they've interacted with the whole snakes life.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Were you there to know the fact? No, so don't presume to act like you do. I said it's a bad judgement call. I never said it couldn't be done. I never said dogs or cats were unpredictable either. I own a wolf, so I know of the risks but you don't see me over here advertising it either.

You said I didn't read a few posts up where it never struck. I wasn't even referring to anything you said, I never said it struck either, I said it could of and missed. You just don't know. I did not make an inaccurate generalization, I said it's a bad judgement call to sit here and advertise it. You could have your animal for 25 years, and it never bite you, and you deal with it several times a week. That doesn't mean you know your animal. Snakes can't learn, sure they can associate smells with experiences. If you honestly think you know your snake and know it won't do something, then you're either blind or found something that's legal to smoke, and have had way too much of it. Snakes are awesome pets, and I think it sucks that people look down on them due to fears and such. But snakes a primitive species with little reasoning skills. They can't be trained to sit or fetch, roll over or play dead. Snakes react mainly from instincts.

We can continue this all day long if you'd like but in the end I'm going to make you look bad. So that's your call.

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Again, read what he said. The snake did not strike. He said that, not me. If you missed the distinction between striking and picking something up, your reading comprehension is as bad as your grammar.

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of animal intelligence, but showing your own lack of understanding on the subject is probably not the best way to "make me look bad." The ability to fetch, roll over, or play dead isn't evidence of intelligence. It's a response to conditioning. You're drastically oversimplifying something that you don't understand to begin with. The simple fact is that you can't train a python in the same way you would a cat or a dog. Attempting to do so is a reflection on the trainer's lack of reasoning skills not the animal. You CAN, however develop an understanding of an animal's natural behaviors, and consequently use that understanding and those behaviors to work with an animal. The fact that you obviously have no experience or education in that regard doesn't make it any less true. While reptiles are primitive and have less ability to reason than some animals, you're absolutely wrong in that they can't learn. In fact, you directly contradict yourself by saying they can associate scents with experience. That IS learning AND reasoning. It also shows some capability for abstract thought.

Aside from all of that, I would wager that nearly every keeper on this site has had a personal experience with just how quickly a snake can learn. One escape. That's all it takes. Even you can't argue with the fact that it's extremely well documented that a ball python will escape once, and attempt to escape the exact same way repeatedly.

It doesn't require smoking anything to learn about animal behavior. It just requires that you not be narrow minded.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Again, read what he said. The snake did not strike. He said that, not me. If you missed the distinction between striking and picking something up, your reading comprehension is as bad as your grammar.

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of animal intelligence, but showing your own lack of understanding on the subject is probably not the best way to "make me look bad." The ability to fetch, roll over, or play dead isn't evidence of intelligence. It's a response to conditioning. You're drastically oversimplifying something that you don't understand to begin with. The simple fact is that you can't train a python in the same way you would a cat or a dog. Attempting to do so is a reflection on the trainer's lack of reasoning skills not the animal. You CAN, however develop an understanding of an animal's natural behaviors, and consequently use that understanding and those behaviors to work with an animal. The fact that you obviously have no experience or education in that regard doesn't make it any less true. While reptiles are primitive and have less ability to reason than some animals, you're absolutely wrong in that they can't learn. In fact, you directly contradict yourself by saying they can associate scents with experience. That IS learning AND reasoning. It also shows some capability for abstract thought.

Aside from all of that, I would wager that nearly every keeper on this site has had a personal experience with just how quickly a snake can learn. One escape. That's all it takes. Even you can't argue with the fact that it's extremely well documented that a ball python will escape once, and attempt to escape the exact same way repeatedly.

It doesn't require smoking anything to learn about animal behavior. It just requires that you not be narrow minded.

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Okay, wow. Are you reading what I'm saying, or better yet maybe try to comprehend. I know he said it didn't strike, again. Here, since you're having a hard time comprehending what I'm saying, I'll bold and underline it for you. The snake could of struck and missed. In the process it could of bit his hand.. Do you see that now, or do I need to make it bigger? I know what happened, clearly because my 8 year old nephew could of understood that. What I'm telling you is what could of happened, which you're not understanding. It could of entirely went wrong. This is what I'm trying to get you to understand. No matter how long you've had a snake for, anything could go wrong. This is why I said it's a bad judgement call. You are clearly ignorant to the fact that a snake does not have this intelligence that dogs or cats or other animals have. I'm not sure what planet you grew up on to not understand common sense but wow. Responding to fetch and all that is because the animal was intelligent enough to be taught how to do that. You clearly have no understanding on snakes or knowledge of snakes, or let me rephrase that. You have little knowledge on how intelligent snakes are. You can try to develop an understanding all you want with an animal but in the end, that animal is in fact an animal, which makes them unpredictable. Snakes can learn simple things, escaping is something they do when they're cruising around or wanting to explore. Yes a scorpion can learn to escape too. I can tell you that from experience. I can spend as much time as I want with a scorpion and the fact is they will not learn other tasks. People pick scorpions up and put them on their hand and say, oh my scorpion knows me and won't sting me. WRONG. The fact is that there is a reasonable scientific explanation for this. In most cases, nearly all as a matter of fact a scorpion will not sting the ground/hand/finger it's sitting on. You put your other finger in front of it to touch it and watch what happens though.

People think that snakes enjoy being held. The more scientific explanation for this is that your hand is warm, they like heat because they're cold blooded, and this brings new territory to them. Yes, some get comfortable and will settle down and stay still, but it's not about learning at that point.

Yes hook training a snake helps them differentiate food from getting prepared to being handled. What you fail to realize and is so beyond funny because my 8 year old nephew clearly understands it more then you. BP's use vision as well as the heat pits and the sense of smell. So with the rat being warm, your hand being warm, your hand smelling like rats because you're holding one, and if your snake strikes and misses it's because it was going after one of the smells.

Yes while his snake didn't strike, and it may not strike for 30 more times, but that 31st time it could strike. You've clearly got to learn what you're talking about kiddo.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Okay, wow. Are you reading what I'm saying, or better yet maybe try to comprehend. I know he said it didn't strike, again. Here, since you're having a hard time comprehending what I'm saying, I'll bold and underline it for you. The snake could of struck and missed. In the process it could of bit his hand.. Do you see that now, or do I need to make it bigger? I know what happened, clearly because my 8 year old nephew could of understood that. What I'm telling you is what could of happened, which you're not understanding. It could of entirely went wrong. This is what I'm trying to get you to understand. No matter how long you've had a snake for, anything could go wrong. This is why I said it's a bad judgement call. You are clearly ignorant to the fact that a snake does not have this intelligence that dogs or cats or other animals have. I'm not sure what planet you grew up on to not understand common sense but wow. Responding to fetch and all that is because the animal was intelligent enough to be taught how to do that. You clearly have no understanding on snakes or knowledge of snakes, or let me rephrase that. You have little knowledge on how intelligent snakes are. You can try to develop an understanding all you want with an animal but in the end, that animal is in fact an animal, which makes them unpredictable. Snakes can learn simple things, escaping is something they do when they're cruising around or wanting to explore. Yes a scorpion can learn to escape too. I can tell you that from experience. I can spend as much time as I want with a scorpion and the fact is they will not learn other tasks. People pick scorpions up and put them on their hand and say, oh my scorpion knows me and won't sting me. WRONG. The fact is that there is a reasonable scientific explanation for this. In most cases, nearly all as a matter of fact a scorpion will not sting the ground/hand/finger it's sitting on. You put your other finger in front of it to touch it and watch what happens though.

People think that snakes enjoy being held. The more scientific explanation for this is that your hand is warm, they like heat because they're cold blooded, and this brings new territory to them. Yes, some get comfortable and will settle down and stay still, but it's not about learning at that point.

Yes hook training a snake helps them differentiate food from getting prepared to being handled. What you fail to realize and is so beyond funny because my 8 year old nephew clearly understands it more then you. BP's use vision as well as the heat pits and the sense of smell. So with the rat being warm, your hand being warm, your hand smelling like rats because you're holding one, and if your snake strikes and misses it's because it was going after one of the smells.

Yes while his snake didn't strike, and it may not strike for 30 more times, but that 31st time it could strike. You've clearly got to learn what you're talking about kiddo.

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Your 8 year old nephew could HAVE understood. Dude, if you're going to make a feeble attempt to be witty and insult someone's intelligence, at least make an attempt not to sound ignorant.

Maybe you should put that 8 year old on the computer. He's bound to make more sense. I'm really happy you're so experienced with scorpions. Unfortunately it's irrelevant. The fact that you haven't done ANY research of your own into the way a snake's brain works makes this entire conversation nearly worthless. You don't even understand conditioned response well enough to know when you're contradicting yourself. It's not even worth pointing it out anymore. You're obviously more interesting in remaining ignorant. Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Your 8 year old nephew could HAVE understood. Dude, if you're going to make a feeble attempt to be witty and insult someone's intelligence, at least make an attempt not to sound ignorant.

Maybe you should put that 8 year old on the computer. He's bound to make more sense. I'm really happy you're so experienced with scorpions. Unfortunately it's irrelevant. The fact that you haven't done ANY research of your own into the way a snake's brain works makes this entire conversation nearly worthless. You don't even understand conditioned response well enough to know when you're contradicting yourself. It's not even worth pointing it out anymore. You're obviously more interesting in remaining ignorant. Good luck with that.

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You have done extensive research on a snakes brain? Please post your proof. Do you have a degree? No. I didn't think so. I don't have to make you look stupid, you're doing that fine by yourself. Studies have been done on snakes for years. In fact I have a snake that was born without any eyes. He hunts just like other balls. With heat pits and sense of smell. I'm sure I could hand feed him without getting bit. But all it takes is a misjudgment on his part to nail my hand. That's what you're not understanding. My nephew comment wasn't to be taken as.witty. He understands how they hunt, you clearly don't. There is a reason you don't see snakes starring in movies like horses, dogs, cats and like other animals which have the ability to learn complex tasks. I'm not saying they can't learn simple tasks.

Try this. Heat up a rat then rub it on your hand and put it in your snakes tank and wave your hand. Record this and you'll prove my point.

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Originally Posted by Neal

You have done extensive research on a snakes brain? Please post your proof. Do you have a degree? No. I didn't think so. I don't have to make you look stupid, you're doing that fine by yourself. Studies have been done on snakes for years. In fact I have a snake that was born without any eyes. He hunts just like other balls. With heat pits and sense of smell. I'm sure I could hand feed him without getting bit. But all it takes is a misjudgment on his part to nail my hand. That's what you're not understanding. My nephew comment wasn't to be taken as.witty. He understands how they hunt, you clearly don't. There is a reason you don't see snakes starring in movies like horses, dogs, cats and like other animals which have the ability to learn complex tasks. I'm not saying they can't learn simple tasks.

Try this. Heat up a rat then rub it on your hand and put it in your snakes tank and wave your hand. Record this and you'll prove my point.

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Again, you're completely missing the point. You're also contradicting yourself, yet again. And trust me, it's going to take someone much more intelligent than you to make me look stupid. I'll attempt to dumb this down so you don't need an 8 year old to explain it. I understand very well how snakes hunt. With the exception of your eyeless snake, vision IS part of the arsenal. For the sake of education, you should know that taste is also a factor. You know, the Jacobson's organ. Interestingly enough, not all of the triggers need to be present to induce a strike. Nor will the combination of heat, scent, taste, and sight guarantee a strike. Nearly all of us can relate seeing a snake take a prey item without striking. There's a lot of variables that can go into it.

FYI, I've recorded exactly what you said, and posted it here. The fact is, as you said yourself, they can learn to recognize scents. They can recognize the scent of food, and of things that aren't food. It's not rocket science. I'm not saying it's instantaneous, or that you won't get tagged in the process. I'm just saying it can be done.

There's a lot about animal behavior in general, and BP behavior specifically that you don't know anything about. Since you clearly can't accept the fact that you're not as all knowing as you'd like to think, there's no point in wasting my time pointing you in the right direction. No one is saying these snakes are going to be winning any reasoning contests anytime soon, but continuing to regard them as unintelligent and incapable of doing anything more than eating and sleeping is just ignorant.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Again, you're completely missing the point. You're also contradicting yourself, yet again. And trust me, it's going to take someone much more intelligent than you to make me look stupid. I'll attempt to dumb this down so you don't need an 8 year old to explain it. I understand very well how snakes hunt. With the exception of your eyeless snake, vision IS part of the arsenal. For the sake of education, you should know that taste is also a factor. You know, the Jacobson's organ. Interestingly enough, not all of the triggers need to be present to induce a strike. Nor will the combination of heat, scent, taste, and sight guarantee a strike. Nearly all of us can relate seeing a snake take a prey item without striking. There's a lot of variables that can go into it.

FYI, I've recorded exactly what you said, and posted it here. The fact is, as you said yourself, they can learn to recognize scents. They can recognize the scent of food, and of things that aren't food. It's not rocket science. I'm not saying it's instantaneous, or that you won't get tagged in the process. I'm just saying it can be done.

There's a lot about animal behavior in general, and BP behavior specifically that you don't know anything about. Since you clearly can't accept the fact that you're not as all knowing as you'd like to think, there's no point in wasting my time pointing you in the right direction. No one is saying these snakes are going to be winning any reasoning contests anytime soon, but continuing to regard them as unintelligent and incapable of doing anything more than eating and sleeping is just ignorant.

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I never claimed to know it all. The fact is when you have a rat on your hand it masks the scent. Like when you get a snake that eats frogs, and you have to scent pinkies. They can see it's not a frog, but senses take over. That's what I've been saying the whole time.

My rufous beaked, they're diurnal and it was believed that they hunt mainly by vision. Now to dumb it down for you. The rufous beaked are the most hesitant snake to bite, and to contribute that they have 0 documented bites cases. So I wanted to test this theory and I laid a pinky flat in my hand. My little one gently ate off my hand while I held it. them it sniffed around and since my pinky smelled like food, he attempted to swallow my pinky. Now if you have anybody who has these snakes they will tell you they're never, ever aggressive. They also rely on vision more than balls because of the lack of heat pitts. So your ignorant argument is invalid. Even though a ball has smell, vision and heat pitts. They can still bite the hand because the hand smells like their normal pray. So again, before you open your mouth you should really learn everything. I never contradicted myself. I said they can't learn advanced stuff. Simple stuff yes. Sure they can differentiate food vs hand, but ask how many people have been bit by their bp who missed the rat they were holding. Learn kiddo, learn.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I never claimed to know it all. The fact is when you have a rat on your hand it masks the scent. Like when you get a snake that eats frogs, and you have to scent pinkies. They can see it's not a frog, but senses take over. That's what I've been saying the whole time.

My rufous beaked, they're diurnal and it was believed that they hunt mainly by vision. Now to dumb it down for you. The rufous beaked are the most hesitant snake to bite, and to contribute that they have 0 documented bites cases. So I wanted to test this theory and I laid a pinky flat in my hand. My little one gently ate off my hand while I held it. them it sniffed around and since my pinky smelled like food, he attempted to swallow my pinky. Now if you have anybody who has these snakes they will tell you they're never, ever aggressive. They also rely on vision more than balls because of the lack of heat pitts. So your ignorant argument is invalid. Even though a ball has smell, vision and heat pitts. They can still bite the hand because the hand smells like their normal pray. So again, before you open your mouth you should really learn everything. I never contradicted myself. I said they can't learn advanced stuff. Simple stuff yes. Sure they can differentiate food vs hand, but ask how many people have been bit by their bp who missed the rat they were holding. Learn kiddo, learn.

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Again, learn to spell. Learn to read, and then try doing both of them. You still have no idea what you're talking about, and the fact that you can't even see your own contradiction is making it more evident with every ignorant post. Keep calling me kiddo, that juvenile attempt to belittle me is really just reinforcing the fact that your nephew is the brains of the family.

I'll make this very simple. I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, so I'll use small words. We're done here. You have no desire to admit you're wrong, and I have no desire to waste any more of my time reading your misspellings and contradictions. I really don't care if you agree or disagree. Your opinion is completely useless to me and anyone else who has a genuine interest in ball python behavior. Save your opinion and your breath.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Again, learn to spell. Learn to read, and then try doing both of them. You still have no idea what you're talking about, and the fact that you can't even see your own contradiction is making it more evident with every ignorant post. Keep calling me kiddo, that juvenile attempt to belittle me is really just reinforcing the fact that your nephew is the brains of the family.

I'll make this very simple. I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, so I'll use small words. We're done here. You have no desire to admit you're wrong, and I have no desire to waste any more of my time reading your misspellings and contradictions. I really don't care if you agree or disagree. Your opinion is completely useless to me and anyone else who has a genuine interest in ball python behavior. Save your opinion and your breath.

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I can spell, mistypes happen sometimes. You're assuming I'm contradicting something because you're not competent enough to comprehend simple phrases and sentences. I'm not wrong because you clearly don't understand what you're talking about, and the fact that you even jumped in the middle without understanding what was being said in the first place. I don't care if my opinion is useless to you, hopefully you'll educate yourself one day by letting the teacher(myself) teach you. I've given you two lessons today, how many do you want?

Grow up and learn what you're talking about in the first place. My original statement still stands. Yea that BP may not strike, or maybe it hasn't struck yet, but that doesn't mean it won't strike. If it suddenly decides to become an aggressive feeder, that's when you'll get bit.

Show me you rubbing a rat on your hands and putting it in front of your snakes, a solid non stop recording video. You may do it 20 times, but of those 20 times, it only takes one time. That's my whole point. His snake is clearly not striking and maybe it hasn't. The simple fact is that doesn't mean it won't or it can't.

Hell, I have a Lemon Blast female that won't eat f/t rodents. I was curious so I rubbed the rat on my hand and put it in front of her nose and she did not strike at all. She's an absolute sweet heart, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't strike at me if she wanted to. Now on the other hand when I heat up my rodents if I walk past my Sable and Bumblebee tub they will strike at the tub. No rat in sight, do you know why? It's because the scent is in the air and it's a moving heat source. Now both of those snakes have never bit me, but they are also aggressive feeders.

Now my Sable Pin & Mojave are aggressive feeders but won't strike at me when my hand goes in front of the tub without a rat. Snakes do vary on a case by case basis, but when in feeding mode, senses take over vision.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I can spell, mistypes happen sometimes. You're assuming I'm contradicting something because you're not competent enough to comprehend simple phrases and sentences. I'm not wrong because you clearly don't understand what you're talking about, and the fact that you even jumped in the middle without understanding what was being said in the first place. I don't care if my opinion is useless to you, hopefully you'll educate yourself one day by letting the teacher(myself) teach you. I've given you two lessons today, how many do you want?

Grow up and learn what you're talking about in the first place. My original statement still stands. Yea that BP may not strike, or maybe it hasn't struck yet, but that doesn't mean it won't strike. If it suddenly decides to become an aggressive feeder, that's when you'll get bit.

Show me you rubbing a rat on your hands and putting it in front of your snakes, a solid non stop recording video. You may do it 20 times, but of those 20 times, it only takes one time. That's my whole point. His snake is clearly not striking and maybe it hasn't. The simple fact is that doesn't mean it won't or it can't.

Hell, I have a Lemon Blast female that won't eat f/t rodents. I was curious so I rubbed the rat on my hand and put it in front of her nose and she did not strike at all. She's an absolute sweet heart, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't strike at me if she wanted to. Now on the other hand when I heat up my rodents if I walk past my Sable and Bumblebee tub they will strike at the tub. No rat in sight, do you know why? It's because the scent is in the air and it's a moving heat source. Now both of those snakes have never bit me, but they are also aggressive feeders.

Now my Sable Pin & Mojave are aggressive feeders but won't strike at me when my hand goes in front of the tub without a rat. Snakes do vary on a case by case basis, but when in feeding mode, senses take over vision.

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I already told you, I'm done arguing with you about this. If you want to keep going, have at it, but I'm not going to push another moderator into getting in the middle of a discussion that's gotten ridiculous.

I'm going to be as mature about this as I should have been from the beginning, and explain MY point. What you do with that information, if anything, is completely up to you.

It's been my belief, based on my own experience, as well as that of a number of other sources, that many animals, Ball Pythons in particular, are considerably more intelligent than we give them credit for. While every individual animal is unique, there are certain behaviors that can be considered universal within a species. Knowing those behaviors will give you a greater insight into what an animal is likely to do in a given situation. While it's not completely foolproof, beginning with an understanding of an animal's instinctive drives and behavior will allow you to work with or around those behaviors in order to reinforce certain behaviors. It's not a case of "my snake is different, it likes to be held." It's more a case of my snake likes nice even heat, so it will lay in my lap as long as it's warm.

It's not a realistic comparison to judge one species of animal by whether or not it can be trained to do the same things that another can. Your example of teaching a dog to fetch, sit, roll over, etc is a perfect example. A dog processes information completely differently than a snake. The absolute simplest reason for this is that they receive the information differently. We both know snakes have no ears, and only very primitive bone structure within what would evolve into an ear. That means that getting information to a snake's brain is going to require another method.

I don't expect to convince you of this, so take this as you will. While the established theory is that reptiles are very low on intelligence, new research is emerging that shows they're quite a bit more intelligent than we thought. We're just testing them the wrong way.

If you believe that we're wrong, so be it. If you think that we're just begging to get bitten in the process, fine. You are as entitled to your belief as I am. Since neither of us is going to convince the other, let's just call it a difference of opinion and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by jxl

My normal seems alike. He also drinks his water in my presence and also is eating on dining table from hands :P There was this one feeding occasion he just didn't want to eat. He was in his enclosure as always when feeding, but this time he just hasn't had interest in food.

Can't wait to see if I can get mine to drink from my hands :P

There are some crazy snakes running around :D

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Very cool! Were you able to get him to drink from your hands?