Aborted ova

Well this is a first for me. She is 15 months old, ~1600g.


http://www.rockymountainballs.com/up...1379674796.jpg

http://www.rockymountainballs.com/up...1379674359.jpg

http://www.rockymountainballs.com/up...1379674779.jpg

I've never seen this before - what the heck is this?!

Backstory? Were these expelled instead of absorbed?

I'm sorry. :(
Better luck next year. Hope your girl is well.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

I've never seen this before - what the heck is this?!

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Its a BP miscarriage.

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No worries. I just paired her up for the first time a few days ago. I wasn't expecting her to do anything for another year or two anyway. I didn't even know she was brewing those follicles.

That sure is a big pile of them.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

That sure is a big pile of them.

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Hard to tell from the picture, but a lot of them looked to be in 2-3 pieces.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Its a BP miscarriage.

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That's sad. :( sorry

I'm sorry :( Is she doing okay?

I'm sorry. :( But thanks for posting it, I've never seen that.

Hope you have better luck with her next year. :( I guess she just wasn't ready to become a mother yet...

Definitely interesting and unusual, if quite sad. Hope she's doing ok! Anything unusual about her behavior since you paired her/since this happened?


Sent from my cool hide

Wow. Let us know how she's doing in another week or two, please?

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Originally Posted by LooptyLoo

I'm sorry :( Is she doing okay?

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She seems fine so far.

15 months old and 1600 grams? How do you even get a snake that big in just over a year? This snake was way too young to breed. I'm sorry but that isn't even close to two years old! I've never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young. If you didn't think anything would come of it, why do it? I just can't get over breeding a snake that young.

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Originally Posted by Lorgakor

15 months old and 1600 grams? How do you even get a snake that big in just over a year?

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Feeding them well? It isn't really uncommon for them to put on ~100g a month..

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This snake was way too young to breed. I'm sorry but that isn't even close to two years old! I've never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young.

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She hadn't even been paired up yet when she started growing those follicles, so I believe that my pairing her up for the first time a few days ago is just a coincidence and is not really relevant.

And just because you "never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young" doesn't exactly mean squat. I've seen many people state that they do just that right here on this forum. And I know of a few that have paired them up at right around a year old and not even 1200 grams. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and whatever guidelines you pulled your "omg she's not even two years old!" line from is just that. A guideline. Deviations can and do occur. I bet you'd be shocked and amazed at some of the things that go on behind a few of the bigger breeders' doors.

:( That sucks. I had something really similar to that happen. My girl was 3 years old and was being bred when it happened. I tried breeding her again last year, but she didn't take/lay. I'm going to try again this year and see what happens. I don't know if it was a fluke or if this will be a reoccurring issue. Not a dang clue.

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Originally Posted by Lorgakor

15 months old and 1600 grams? How do you even get a snake that big in just over a year? This snake was way too young to breed. I'm sorry but that isn't even close to two years old! I've never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young. If you didn't think anything would come of it, why do it? I just can't get over breeding a snake that young.

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I had a female spider lay at 20 months. She was over 1800g before she was even paired. She was not power fed, she was actually on the same weekly schedule as two other girls that were the same age and closer to 1100g. She just grew like a weed.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I bet you'd be shocked and amazed at some of the things that go on behind a few of the bigger breeders' doors.

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Not shocked at all.
Stupidity doesn't shock me much anymore, smh.

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Originally Posted by Lorgakor

15 months old and 1600 grams? How do you even get a snake that big in just over a year? This snake was way too young to breed. I'm sorry but that isn't even close to two years old! I've never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young. If you didn't think anything would come of it, why do it? I just can't get over breeding a snake that young.

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My Mojave got to 1000g in less than a year. And not even a year later she got to 2200+ g....

Lots of breeders breed their females once it reaches 1000-1200g. It doesn't matter if the snake is a year old. While I don't partake in or agree with that practice, many big breeders do....

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Those arent ova those are fat stores snakes have to store energy. This snake must have been grossly overfed to get fat stores like this.

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Originally Posted by RyanGSP

Those arent ova those are fat stores snakes have to store energy. This snake must have been grossly overfed to get fat stores like this.

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I'm not even going to respond to your ridiculous ass. I think I'm just about done with this forum :/

Adios'

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Originally Posted by Lorgakor

15 months old and 1600 grams? How do you even get a snake that big in just over a year? This snake was way too young to breed. I'm sorry but that isn't even close to two years old! I've never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young. If you didn't think anything would come of it, why do it? I just can't get over breeding a snake that young.

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One of the two of ten that actually went for me this year was less than two years old and ca. 1400g maybe less I dont remember off hand. She gave me 5 good eggs all hatched and I have 5 healthy mojaves and now shes nocking down food like crazy. Its far from bad and far from unheard of. I too didnt expect anything of it, was just a lets see.


But back on topic, thats one of the weirdest things ive ever seen, hope shes ok.

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Originally Posted by RyanGSP

Those arent ova those are fat stores snakes have to store energy. This snake must have been grossly overfed to get fat stores like this.

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Physiology 101....

Fat doesn't come out like that, otherwise everyone would be loosing weight just as easy..... Fat is in under the skin and around the muscle layers. They are not in any place that can come out of the cloaca. I would be worried if it did and would recommend a vet....

Its ova.....

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Originally Posted by RyanGSP

Those arent ova those are fat stores snakes have to store energy.

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actually I was thinking just the same, not because the female is that fat, but more because these things do not look like ova but look exactly like the fat build up that can occur around organs...even though I can't really figure out how it got to a place from where it could have been excreted like this. But when you think of it, fat build up happens around organs to, so why wouldn't it be able to build up in either the gut or in the oviduct. I know these build ups are normally on the 'outside' of the organs in the abdominal cavity, but I can imagine that due to some abnormality it could have happened on the inside as well.

I hope you kept the "ova" because I think it would be quite interesting to get them examined...or at least send some pictures to a vet, because from what I've seen as a biologist this looks exactly like stored fat.

I wish I could poop out my fat stores :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Lorgakor

15 months old and 1600 grams? How do you even get a snake that big in just over a year? This snake was way too young to breed. I'm sorry but that isn't even close to two years old! I've never even heard of anyone breeding a female that young. If you didn't think anything would come of it, why do it? I just can't get over breeding a snake that young.

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I have a female champ whos only 9 months old and shes currently sitting at 1300g. I dont powerfeed any of my animals...i just feed them on a regular schedule. If theyre hungry, they get fed.

sent from my incubator

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I wish I could poop out my fat stores :rolleye2:

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Me too!! Itd be the easiest diet ever lol

sent from my incubator

I have seen these same structures in Anthill pythons in the past. I had a dystocia last year with my female A. perthensis that I was able to remedy by milking out a mostly infertile clutch. There were fully developed slugs, one viable egg (interestingly enough this egg had a decently formed fetal snake in it, as if it was incubated within the snake for a time), and fatty-looking tissue in similar form to what is pictured here. Physiologically I don't believe large bodies of adipose tissue like this can build up within the ovaries, and due to my own experiences with these bodies being released simultaneously with more developed ova, I'd have to agree that what we're seeing is definitively aborted ova.

I'm certainly no expert, but I am a vet student with a basic understanding of physiology if that counts for anything, haha.

Cheers,
-Matt

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Originally Posted by RyanGSP

Those arent ova those are fat stores snakes have to store energy. This snake must have been grossly overfed to get fat stores like this.

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http://thereptilereport.com/aborted-ova/

http://www.reptileradio.net/ball-pyt...-ova-pics.html

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-what-this-is

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...snake-man.html

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Originally Posted by Matt K

I have seen these same structures in Anthill pythons in the past. I had a dystocia last year with my female A. perthensis that I was able to remedy by milking out a mostly infertile clutch. There were fully developed slugs, one viable egg (interestingly enough this egg had a decently formed fetal snake in it, as if it was incubated within the snake for a time), and fatty-looking tissue in similar form to what is pictured here. Physiologically I don't believe large bodies of adipose tissue like this can build up within the ovaries, and due to my own experiences with these bodies being released simultaneously with more developed ova, I'd have to agree that what we're seeing is definitively aborted ova.

I'm certainly no expert, but I am a vet student with a basic understanding of physiology if that counts for anything, haha.

Cheers,
-Matt

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:clap: Winner winner chicken dinner!