Butter Pastel or Butter Super Pastel?

Hey everyone!

In a purchase a couple months ago, the gentleman gave me a "damaged butter pastel" female, but said that she could possibly be a butter super pastel, but "he didn't know for sure". The said damage was a dented eyecap,about a 2 inch scar down her neck that after her last few sheds has almost completely disappeared, and was EXTREMELY skinny and underfed. He also warned me she may be blind in the damaged eye, but I definitely don't think she is!

Anyways, after a couple months of weekly feedings and some TLC, she's looking fantastic! Because he wasn't sure what morph she was for sure, I've always just called her a butter pastel, but after looking at a couple butter pastels and looking at pictures of the butter super pastels, I'm beginning to wonder. As you can see, her tans/browns are extremely light, has an almost white head, very nice yellows all over her. The butter pastels I have seen seem to usually have a darker head and more defined dark brown lines between the spots and background color.

I was just curious what you may all think! Regardless, I think she's gorgeous and is really starting to fill out nice!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ver/photo1.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...er/image1.jpeghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ver/image.jpeg

I would say super butter pastel personally. Good on you for getting her back in shape.

Lack of sleep...super pastel butter. Derp.

I, too, see super pastel butter.

Thanks everyone! I've always thought of her more of a super pastel butter, but this leads in nicely to my next question.

I guess my next question is more about ethics. Because she was given to me with "this-or-that" information about her morph, if I were to ever sell her (which I don't plan on doing, this is a purely hypothetical question) what would be the appropriate way to advertise the morph? I personally don't know I could ever ethically sell her as a super pastel butter unless I got the "thumbs up" from a reputable breeder I guess, if that makes sense.

You could always breed her to verify ;)


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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Lack of sleep...super pastel butter. Derp.

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agreed + this made me laugh :P

Proving her out would be the best way to be sure to say she was Super Pastel or just pastel. Which to me she does look super pastel, the blushing on the head kinda hints towards it. She is very beautiful though :)

She definitely has been incorporated into my breeding project! Will be interesting to see what she does for me next couple years. Here's hoping she is a super pastel! I'm going to be pairing my Ivory with my Spider this year, so if I manage to get a Spider Yellowbelly male this breeding season, that'll be the one I hope to pair with her.

That head screams Super. Very nice!!!

Sbp!!!!

Wow guys, this makes me even more excited to breed her! Grow baby grow! Can't wait to see what kind off offspring I'll get.

damn auto correct! super pastel butter

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Originally Posted by Kourtneyhk

Wow guys, this makes me even more excited to breed her! Grow baby grow! Can't wait to see what kind off offspring I'll get.

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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwAA&dur=3997

That's one of the pictures I saw and was like "Wow, that looks exactly like her!" and prompted me to ask others' opinions. She seems to be getting lighter with every shed as well. She just shed again about a week ago and is just gorgeous.

dont know what males you have, i assume ivory.. id put him to her or a simple spider or even a lesserbee would be awesome to prove it out

Right now I have an Ivory, Het Pied, and Pied male, so obviously the Ivory would be the best to try to prove her out. However, I'm trading some enclosures for a male Pastel and a male Woma here in the next week, and who knows what I will have by the time she is breeding weight.

I figured that the Ivory may be one of the better ways to prove her out, but I've been looking into getting a male lesser as well. Any other suggestions on what would be a good match?

calico or sugar male or calider

Spider, bumblebee, calico/sugar pastel

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

You could always breed her to verify ;)


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This is probably the most fool proof.

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Originally Posted by Coopers Constrictors

That head screams Super. Very nice!!!

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x2

Okay, so my understanding is that if I pair her with a bumblebee, if I get any Normals, Spiders, Butters, or Butter Bees that has proven that she is a Butter Pastel (looking at the Genetic Wizard on WoBP). But seeing as a super pastel butter and the normal butter pastel still has a chance of sharing some offspring (like Killer Queen Bee or Killer Bee), how would I differentiate whether I was just lucky with a Butter Pastel or have a Butter Super Pastel? Where as if I were to pair her with my Ivory, although I would have 0% chance of getting a Killerbee (etc), if she is a BSP I would get all Pastel YB and Butter Pastel YB's, and if she is just a Butter Pastel, I would get YBs, Pastel YBs, Butter Bellies, and Butter Pastel YBs.

Sorry if that made no sense at all! I guess I'm just trying to think what would most obviously prove her out, and it seems like breeding with a bumblebee would lead to possible cross overs.

Ivory all the way!

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The head gives it away ;) Very nice girl you have there and good on ya for taking her in!

Thanks everyone!

I was shocked when I got her that she was in such poor condition. He had told me that his roommate had left her enclosure partially open and she had cut herself down her side and hurt her eye trying to squeeze out, but assured me she was in good health other than that. What I received was a skin-and-bones little two month old. She was only about 120 grams when I got her and had only been fed two or three times in her life, so needless to say, she's put on weight quickly. At least her cuts were healed and not infected!

you asked how to ethically advertise her if you ever sell her....


list her as a butter pastel, with high-quality pictures, and write that you think its a super pastel butter, and price it as a super pastel butter.

if you dont withhold any information and the buyer can make an informed decision, then its ethical in my books.

and then most people that look at it will agree that its most likely a super pastel, or maybe someone just buys it as a butter pastel because it looks so nice and considers it a possible super pastel butter.

personally i like it when i browse snakes that a breeder has, and its differentiated, meaning its listed as what it CERTAINLY is, and possible hard-to-see genes are added to the description. a big german breeder has really nice descriptions for each BP he offers, basically like: "this is an Ivory, the super-form of Yellowbelly. In this one the yellow hues are quite strong, and one of the parents has pastel in it, so its also a possible pastel". if you are honest like that, you cannot go wrong.

but i see you want to prove her out anyway :) good idea, and good luck with that!

That was my feeling. Although I do want to breed but don't plan do ever get "big" into it, I believe it's better to err on the side of caution. If I advertise her as a butter pastel (if I don't prove her out so don't know for sure) then someone might just get super lucky with her, where as if I were to advertise her as a butter super pastel and she isn't, that just would look horrible on me.