Wow, we really messed up.

Last Sunday, we bought a baby ball python at a reptile show. He was born on June 12, 2013. He's 18 inches long and weighs 92 grams. We were really unprepared and didn't know much at all about the snake before we bought him. Mistake number one! We stopped by a local pet store on the way home that has a good reputation and a ton of snakes and reptiles. We bought a small take, a hide, some coconut substrate and a red lamp. It took an hour or so to get everything set up but the little guy settled right in. He explored his tank for a bit and then went into his hide. The next day, my husband got a under take heating pad. We also put a tupperware dish of clean water in his tank. We are measuring the heat using a temperature gun that uses a laser to measure heat. The hot side of his tank is from 90 - 88 and the cool side is from 78 - 75. We don't have a humidity gauge yet so my husband has been spraying the substrate once a day when he changes the water. He seemed to be a very relaxed little guy. He basically stayed in his hide during the day and came out for at night, alternating between drinking water (man, is that cool to watch), exploring and going back into his hide.

His feeding schedule before we got him was a pinky every Monday. We waited until Tuesday and he took the pinky just fine. He stayed mostly in his hide, coming out occasionally to the water dish and then going back in.

Here's where we really messed up. We took him out of his hide last night to show to a neighbor and also to move his cage from the kitchen island to a space we'd cleared in the living room. We kept him out way too long, let him be handled by too many people and to add insult to injury, we moved his space. Since we put him back in his cage, he's been constantly on the the move, stretching up towards the top of tank and nosing the lid. He has gone in and out of his hide but he won't stay in it and rest like he did before. He is obviously agitated.

I feel so bad that we stressed him out so much. We had planned on getting a bigger cage this weekend and another hide for the cool side. (Here's another rookie mistake...the cage we have is too small for two hides). We were also going to get a humidity gauge. We're still planning on getting all that stuff but now I'm worried that we've messed the little guy up so much that making changes to his habitat will make things even worse!

My husband said that he calmed down for a little while today but he has not spent any time in his hide and now he's back to constantly moving and stretching up to the top of the tank every few minutes.

He. Is. Stressed. And we did it too him. I'm worried now that we've ruined his previously mellow and relaxed disposition.

From everything I've read, it would seem that the best thing to do is to leave him alone, make sure his temps are good and keep the humidity up by spraying the tank once a day.

Poor little guy. We really messed up.

What size tank did you get? Do you have a thermostat for the heat pad? If not it could be too hot for him to stay in the hide if its over the pad

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Originally Posted by Garnet

Last Sunday, we bought a baby ball python at a reptile show. He was born on June 12, 2013. He's 18 inches long and weighs 92 grams. We were really unprepared and didn't know much at all about the snake before we bought him. Mistake number one! We stopped by a local pet store on the way home that has a good reputation and a ton of snakes and reptiles. We bought a small take, a hide, some coconut substrate and a red lamp. It took an hour or so to get everything set up but the little guy settled right in. He explored his tank for a bit and then went into his hide. The next day, my husband got a under take heating pad. We also put a tupperware dish of clean water in his tank. We are measuring the heat using a temperature gun that uses a laser to measure heat. The hot side of his tank is from 90 - 88 and the cool side is from 78 - 75. We don't have a humidity gauge yet so my husband has been spraying the substrate once a day when he changes the water. He seemed to be a very relaxed little guy. He basically stayed in his hide during the day and came out for at night, alternating between drinking water (man, is that cool to watch), exploring and going back into his hide.

His feeding schedule before we got him was a pinky every Monday. We waited until Tuesday and he took the pinky just fine. He stayed mostly in his hide, coming out occasionally to the water dish and then going back in.

Here's where we really messed up. We took him out of his hide last night to show to a neighbor and also to move his cage from the kitchen island to a space we'd cleared in the living room. We kept him out way too long, let him be handled by too many people and to add insult to injury, we moved his space. Since we put him back in his cage, he's been constantly on the the move, stretching up towards the top of tank and nosing the lid. He has gone in and out of his hide but he won't stay in it and rest like he did before. He is obviously agitated.

I feel so bad that we stressed him out so much. We had planned on getting a bigger cage this weekend and another hide for the cool side. (Here's another rookie mistake...the cage we have is too small for two hides). We were also going to get a humidity gauge. We're still planning on getting all that stuff but now I'm worried that we've messed the little guy up so much that making changes to his habitat will make things even worse!

My husband said that he calmed down for a little while today but he has not spent any time in his hide and now he's back to constantly moving and stretching up to the top of the tank every few minutes.

He. Is. Stressed. And we did it too him. I'm worried now that we've ruined his previously mellow and relaxed disposition.

From everything I've read, it would seem that the best thing to do is to leave him alone, make sure his temps are good and keep the humidity up by spraying the tank once a day.

Poor little guy. We really messed up.

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And are you using the lamp and pad?

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We have a 5 gallon tank. We just took temperature and the substrate on the warm side was 85 but the top of his hide was 103! *cusses!!!* My husband just turned the light off. Geez! I forgot to mention that he struck at the top of his hide when I got home from work.


The substrate on the cool side measured at 75.

The light without a dimmer will throw too much heat for a 5 gallon tank. He's probably hot and that's why he's so cranky trying to find a cool area

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Are you still using the Uth?

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I think you're right Crazymonkee. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Where he was before, he was under a fan but where is now he's not. We were probably roasting the poor guy. He's still moving around since we turned the light off and still stretching up to the top of the tank but he's not moving as fast.

I wonder if I should spray the tank.

It wouldn't hurt to give it a misting

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Are you still using the Uth?

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Actually, you have prompted us to make another change. Skull has calmed down a bit although he's still not his normal self. My husband had ordered a smaller pad and it arrived today. We were going to leave it alone until we changed the entire rig but hubby just removed the big UTH. We're going to let the cage cool a bit and the put the smaller UTH on.

Hubby says to tell you that the big pad was an 8-watt and the new pad is a 4-watt. We're definitely getting a temperature control ASAP.

Good choice, then let him settle at least a few days before moving him around again. For added security you can block out part of the tank by covering the sides and back, construction paper taped on the outside would be a cheap quick way. That should help alot

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OK, I gave the tank a good misting. We don't have any heat source on right now, giving him a chance to cool down. The latest temperature read from the substrate outside his hid was 85, the top of his hide was 90.

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Good choice, then let him settle at least a few days before moving him around again. For added security you can block out part of the tank by covering the sides and back, construction paper taped on the outside would be a cheap quick way. That should help alot

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Thank you so much for your help. We're definitely not going to move him or handle him for a while. We're also going to cover the back and sides of his tank.

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Originally Posted by Garnet

Thank you so much for your help. We're definitely not going to move him or handle him for a while. We're also going to cover the back and sides of his tank.

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Your very welcome, when temping you want a spot under his hide on top the substrate of 88-90 on the cool side on top of his substrate 80-81. Good luck and keep us updated!

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He's still agitated. I wonder how long it will take for him to calm down. :(

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Originally Posted by Garnet

He's still agitated. I wonder how long it will take for him to calm down. :(

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First be certain you have temps correctly measured, then FILL his tank with loosely crumpled newspaper. He should settle down because he feels safer and can feel some touching him on all sides.

Once settled, you can slowly wean him off by removing a piece every few days.

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He is much calmer now. He's on top of his hide, something he's done since the very first day at home. He's been there, laying still and looking relaxed for about 20 minutes now.

Yep, sounds like his agitation was probably caused by it being too hot in the tank! Glad he's doing better now, :)

Take a deep breath and let it out. Everything is ok. Wooo sahhh. You've explained the situation and have been given advice to move forward.

You didn't kill the little guy nor did you injure him. He did get a nice dose of stress, but he will calm down. Plus you are making things proper.

The main reason he was probably agitated was the heat, IMO.

With all the activity and moving from one area of the house to another, it did cause stress. I've seen caged animals which were moved from one location to another in a house or room become more active for around a week. They are exploring the new scenery. Some animals do it, others don't. I moved a snake into a bigger enclosure last weekend and got another snake to put into that snake's old home. The one moved around the tank for a couple days then settled in one spot, the other has been picking a different spot every day to hang out in. I'd equate it to a human moving into a new neighborhood and finding the local gas station/convenience store/bar etc.

Aside from the newspaper idea, I would give the little guy a week before you handle him again so he settles down completely(this is how I would do it, I did see crazymonkee mention a few days which will probably fine as well). It looks like you will get a bigger enclosure for him so when you move him this is how I would do it(if anyone thinks this this isn't a viable idea, please chime in):

1. Set up the new enclosure, making sure the temps are right and everything is how you want it/he should have it.
2. Pull him out for a light handling session. Perhaps 10-15 minutes.
3. Put him in his new enclosure.
4. Give him another week before handling again so he settles in. You may see him cruise around his new place for a few days, he is getting accustomed to his new home.


Good luck with the new little guy. Welcome to the forum and welcome to the addiction. :welcome:

We all make mistakes :) Like others have said, you're remedying the situation, so you should be fine after he settles down in a bit. I know firsthand that moving enclosures can really stress out reptiles. About a month ago, we moved our frilled dragons enclosure and he went into a deep depression for about a week and a half. But he turned right around, and is better than ever now! Just keep monitoring the enclosure specs and you should have a happy little bp soon enough. Good luck!

Thank you so much, Pyrate81. I think your ideas are excellent and we'll be using them if we move him. To be honest, I'm not sure who was the most agitated there for a while, me or Skull! (We named the little guy Skull because of his markings.) He is completely calm now. He's still draped around his hide rather than inside it but he's no longer stretching up, bumping the top of cage or cruising rapidly around. He's just kind of half curled, half draped.

You know, this forum is really wonderful. Everyone who has posted here in this thread has been so kind and informative. Thank you all.

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Originally Posted by Garnet

Geez! I forgot to mention that he struck at the top of his hide when I got home from work.

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Struck the top? How big is this hide? Does he just have the one? Ideally you should have 2 identical snug-fitting hides on either side. If it's too big your BP won't feel secure.

I have a 31x19 foot print tank for my girl and use a UTH and lamp at all times (I'm in Canada and it's getting cool). My bulb for that tank is a 60W. I also have a 24x12 footprint tank that I use a 40W bulb in. I have a thermostat for one (cheap hydrofarm) and a dimmer on the other.

His hide is definitely too big. That's one of the things I've learned reading here. :oops: That's one of the things we want to remedy is to get a smaller hide X2.

I am so glad that he's feeling better!! Good job :gj:

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

Take a deep breath and let it out. Everything is ok. Wooo sahhh. You've explained the situation and have been given advice to move forward.

You didn't kill the little guy nor did you injure him. He did get a nice dose of stress, but he will calm down. Plus you are making things proper.

The main reason he was probably agitated was the heat, IMO.

With all the activity and moving from one area of the house to another, it did cause stress. I've seen caged animals which were moved from one location to another in a house or room become more active for around a week. They are exploring the new scenery. Some animals do it, others don't. I moved a snake into a bigger enclosure last weekend and got another snake to put into that snake's old home. The one moved around the tank for a couple days then settled in one spot, the other has been picking a different spot every day to hang out in. I'd equate it to a human moving into a new neighborhood and finding the local gas station/convenience store/bar etc.

Aside from the newspaper idea, I would give the little guy a week before you handle him again so he settles down completely(this is how I would do it, I did see crazymonkee mention a few days which will probably fine as well). It looks like you will get a bigger enclosure for him so when you move him this is how I would do it(if anyone thinks this this isn't a viable idea, please chime in):

1. Set up the new enclosure, making sure the temps are right and everything is how you want it/he should have it.
2. Pull him out for a light handling session. Perhaps 10-15 minutes.
3. Put him in his new enclosure.
4. Give him another week before handling again so he settles in. You may see him cruise around his new place for a few days, he is getting accustomed to his new home.


Good luck with the new little guy. Welcome to the forum and welcome to the addiction. :welcome:

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Yes agreed a week would be better... that's why I put "at least" a couple days. :) I'm not sure on how much of a temp gradient you'd get with a 5 gallon tank, and I know she mentioned getting a bigger one so I figured he may be a lil happier in the bigger one. (With 2 exact hides)

Sounds like he's calming, that's great!! Now it's the op's turn!!! :)

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Update. Skull appears to be back to normal. :) He's loosely curled on top of his hide on the warm side of the tank and appears to be sound asleep. He's been calm and still all day, only occasionally shifting around a bit. Today, we found a used 20 gallon tank that was last used at a local pet store for a corn snake. It's got a place for a UTH. We've ordered a good thermostat. In the meantime, we went to another pet store here and got another hide, some aspen bedding to pad his hides (plus some newspaper) and a driftwood branch to place in the new tank. We also got a cheaper thermostat to use until the good one gets here. Hubby is already working on cleaning and sterilizing the new tank. Then he'll set it up with all the stuff in it and make sure then temps are right, then we'll move Skull.

I'm not sure precisely when we'll do that as Skull's next feeding is on Monday and we know we need to leave him be to digest. We're also going on a brief vacation at the end of next week so we may not move him until we get back.

Again, my thanks to every single person who has contributed to this thread. Y'all probably saved my little guy's life as hubby and I were so distraught we didn't think to do the obvious which was to check the temps. Now we know.

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Originally Posted by Garnet

Last Sunday, we bought a baby ball python at a reptile show. He was born on June 12, 2013. He's 18 inches long and weighs 92 grams...
His feeding schedule before we got him was a pinky every Monday. We waited until Tuesday and he took the pinky just fine.

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Just an FYI now that your little guy's environment is stable - a pinky, either mouse or rat, is way too small a meal for a 92 gram ball python. Try a mouse hopper or rat fuzzy instead, don't worry it won't be to big. Also many people feed every 5 days instead of every week until the snake is at around 600 grams.

Awesome to hear!!! Now enjoy your new snake!! And don't forget pics every now and then :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Just an FYI now that your little guy's environment is stable - a pinky, either mouse or rat, is way too small a meal for a 92 gram ball python. Try a mouse hopper or rat fuzzy instead, don't worry it won't be to big. Also many people feed every 5 days instead of every week until the snake is at around 600 grams.

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We've been wondering about that. I've read that the food should be the same circumference as the largest part of his body. The pinky we fed him just didn't seem like enough. I read that I can actually feed him two if I wait a half hour between first and second feeding. We were going to try that on Monday since we know he'll take pinkies but not if he'll take other food. Maybe if he stays calm, we should try feeding on Sunday?

By the way, does anyone have a recommendation on a humidity gauge?

Walmart sells acurite indoor/ outdoor thermometers, they are $12 they measure 2 temps plus humidity. Put the probe on the hotspot, and the thermometer itself on the cool side. It'll measure it all

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Garnet

We've been wondering about that. I've read that the food should be the same circumference as the largest part of his body. The pinky we fed him just didn't seem like enough. I read that I can actually feed him two if I wait a half hour between first and second feeding. We were going to try that on Monday since we know he'll take pinkies but not if he'll take other food. Maybe if he stays calm, we should try feeding on Sunday?

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I found this handy chart on another thread, but my search-fu is week so I'm putting up a link to one in my own photobucket account. Two mouse pinkies is still too small a meal, your guy needs to be on something bigger. Figure juveniles need 10-15% of their body weight per meal.


http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbb9fe97c.jpg

Oh, that's a great chart! Thank you, bcr 229. That is much better than engaging in SWAGs.

Update on Skull. My husband got our little guy all set up in a better place. We have a larger tank now, with two hides, a stable water dish and a piece of reptile driftwood. Skull has been all up in that piece of driftwood! The tank has a 16 watt UTH under the hot side with a thermostat. We also have a heat lamp above the hot side. We live in Michigan and the ambient temp in our house in the winter will be 68 during the day and 55 at night so we want to make sure we can keep him nice and toasty. Right now, his hot side is 87 to 88, his cool side is 75 to 76. He is currently hanging out in his cool side hide. My husband bought an automatic humidifier that sprays every 6 hours. The humidity in his tank is a little high right now, around 80% because hubby put a mat over the UTH, then covered that with substrate and sprayed it down. It had been running around 50 to 60 percent.

Skull's reaction to all this? He doesn't seem stressed and in fact took his first fuzzy tonight. To be more accurate, he zapped that thing fast and polished it off in short order. We're feeding him every 3 or 4 days right now based on his behavior. He is pooping on a regular basis, regularly drinking water and yesterday, he farted at my husband. Good boy! :D His eyes are clear and his scales are clean and bright. He seems to have settled into routines, hanging out in, or very close to, sometimes on top of, his hide during the day. He gets active around the time I come home from work for a few hours, settles down again, then gets active in the early hours in the morning.

It seems we have a happy snake.

Very cool, glad he's doing well!

Man I can't wait to witness my first snake fart. Yes I am immature and find farts funny still.

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Originally Posted by Borgy76

Man I can't wait to witness my first snake fart. Yes I am immature and find farts funny still.

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Behind the fart generally comes something else you will not want to witness when holding your snake.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

Behind the fart generally comes something else you will not want to witness when holding your snake.

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Oh, i can only imagine. Kind of like when my labs do it, it's funny until the stench hits your nostrils.

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Originally Posted by Borgy76

Oh, i can only imagine. Kind of like when my labs do it, it's funny until the stench hits your nostrils.

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OMG :rolleye2:

Glad to hear everything is going well with him.
Nice to see owners taking any means necessary for the animals well being.

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Originally Posted by Borgy76

Man I can't wait to witness my first snake fart. Yes I am immature and find farts funny still.

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I'm 50 years old and farts still crack me up. There are a couple of epic threads here about farts and poop that just slay me. :D

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Originally Posted by Garnet

We also have a heat lamp above the hot side. We live in Michigan and the ambient temp in our house in the winter will be 68 during the day and 55 at night so we want to make sure we can keep him nice and toasty. Right now, his hot side is 87 to 88, his cool side is 75 to 76.

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That's really about as cool as he should get, it wouldn't hurt to increase those temperatures by a degree or so. Also, if your house is going to get that cold over the winter you'll need to insulate the tank as the heat goes right out the glass sides - I know because my house stayed at 60-68*F last year and some of my guys hadn't been moved into the herp room (which I keep warm) when the weather changed. An easy way to do it is to fold up a blanket so it's the height of the tank, wrap it around the tank, and bungie-cord it into place. It looks silly as heck but it works.

Apologies for not reading all 5 pages but I just wanted to say you're here and you're doing all of the right things. I would not say you 'really messed up' and I think you're being a little hard on yourself in the first few posts here. You should see some of the ways that people mess up in caring for these snakes... this stuff is all extremely minor and won't cause any permanent harm.

I've got 1/4" thick Foam Board that I'll cut to fit the sides and top.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

Behind the fart generally comes something else you will not want to witness when holding your snake.

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You mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OaFRl9HKJM

That is me holding my lesser (now almost 900g) with my friend (the guy) and the breeder (the other female voice) at a local show where I purchased him from.

He must have felt a lot better after that!

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Originally Posted by Garnet

He must have felt a lot better after that!

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Much better xD

I was holding mine about 30 mins ago and he just started crapping so as it was coming out I speed walked to the toilet and held him above he toilet,wiped him off after,cause why not lol...put him back in cage.

Our Skull about an hour after we fed him tonight:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps17c8f51d.jpg