My ball python has an green tree boa complex

My little baby ball python loves to not only hide under the leaves in her enclosure but also climb all over them and loop herself in them:p I think she is a little confused. What do you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Touchedbyfate

My little baby ball python loves to not only hide under the leaves in her enclosure but also climb all over them and loop herself in them:p I think she is a little confused. What do you think?

---

My new little girl loves to climb. She's been partial to hanging out in this new bonsai tree ornament that I got her.

This is so adorable! :D I would love to see pictures (from both of you!)

My ball python does the same! I thought it kinda strange myself. Because I heard that they are not arboreal. Whenever she is out she tends to go right up the vines and curls around them XD

I've had one that loved to climb as well in the past. Each snake is different and while some love to be firmly planted on the ground some will also enjoy climbing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakelover91

This is so adorable! :D I would love to see pictures (from both of you!)

---

Next time I will post a picture if I can get one lol

I have one that love to climb on his vines at night and dive into his water bowl below like a swimming pool. It's so weird, I hear him flopping around in his home all night before he gets tired to "diving" and finally goes to sleep. Lol he's a little odd ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Diving into his water bowl lol!!! That would be cool to see!!

lol I love it!! sometimes I miss having tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

Diving into his water bowl lol!!! That would be cool to see!!

---

It is pretty freaking hilarious! I could just sit and watch him do weird funny things all day lol. Ill try and catch of video one day to share.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

I've got one that climbs. It was hilarious when he was little and learning how to control his body. I had the crappy analog therm/hygro that comes with the tank kits and sticks on the side (I've gone to digital now) and he would climb onto it and hang, but it took him forever to learn how to balance his coils so he wasn't too heavy on one side and he'd slowly start sliding off and then fall upside down, look around like he was confused, and do it again. Now he's fat (joke--not actually fat) and just sticks his nose into everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by decensored

lol I love it!! sometimes I miss having tanks.

---

Yeah they are nice to look at.. I think I'll miss the scenery when I switch to my rack


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

My guy likes climbing, he used to wrap himself in the crappy stick on thermometers that came in his tank, and when we added a stick for him to check out, he took right to it! He's always looping himself in things and climbing up.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/10/uvytapy4.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/10/ydunu9un.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/10/tyne8aju.jpg

That's awesome. I love exo-terra cages. I took the Styrofoam thing out of mine though.

Just out of curiosity, are those dial gauges?

Yes lol I have the styrofoam out at this point as well, and we do not rely on the dials! Just not worth removing when he so enjoys fooling around

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Touchedbyfate

My little baby ball python loves to not only hide under the leaves in her enclosure but also climb all over them and loop herself in them:p I think she is a little confused. What do you think?

---

my og does the same lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XIronMaidenOpheliaX

Because I heard that they are not arboreal.

---

I don't understand why everyone says they're ground-dwelling only.
What do they do when you're handling them? They climb. What do they do when there are branches provided? They climb.
When I was doing research on them before getting mine, I read something somewhere that someone was bathing his ball python and left for two seconds for whatever reason. When he returned, the snake was on the shower curtain rod. The same writer said in the same article that ball pythons do not climb at all, and are only ground-dwelling. I was thinking, "That makes no logical sense; they have to climb in order to be on a curtain rod!"
A study from a few years ago found that the majority of wild ball pythons were in trees. Only females that were laying eggs were on the ground. They kind of have to climb in order to be in a tree.
We always hear that ball pythons are on everything, yet that they are not arboreal.
It's so weird. They love to climb, and I don't understand why we're all told otherwise. I'd say they are semi-arboreal. They like the ground, but they also love to be above-ground. The problem is that we end up not providing branches for them, because we're told that they won't use them.
Personally, I think breeders wouldn't have a clue about it anyway, since the majority of them use plastic tubs. You can't accurately moniter their behavior in these, so how can they say what they do and what they don't do? They really can't, and it's the breeders that tell us ball pythons are ground-dwelling.
How this makes sense anyway, I don't know. Every other python species climbs. Why not these guys?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeanTownsend

I don't understand why everyone says they're ground-dwelling only.
What do they do when you're handling them? They climb. What do they do when there are branches provided? They climb.
When I was doing research on them before getting mine, I read something somewhere that someone was bathing his ball python and left for two seconds for whatever reason. When he returned, the snake was on the shower curtain rod. The same writer said in the same article that ball pythons do not climb at all, and are only ground-dwelling. I was thinking, "That makes no logical sense; they have to climb in order to be on a curtain rod!"
A study from a few years ago found that the majority of wild ball pythons were in trees. Only females that were laying eggs were on the ground. They kind of have to climb in order to be in a tree.
We always hear that ball pythons are on everything, yet that they are not arboreal.
It's so weird. They love to climb, and I don't understand why we're all told otherwise. I'd say they are semi-arboreal. They like the ground, but they also love to be above-ground. The problem is that we end up not providing branches for them, because we're told that they won't use them.
Personally, I think breeders wouldn't have a clue about it anyway, since the majority of them use plastic tubs. You can't accurately moniter their behavior in these, so how can they say what they do and what they don't do? They really can't, and it's the breeders that tell us ball pythons are ground-dwelling.
How this makes sense anyway, I don't know. Every other python species climbs. Why not these guys?

---

There's a science paper online somewhere that shows where wild caught Royals are located .... I was surprised at how many were found in trees !!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I would not go so far as to call a ball python arboreal or even call them tree dwellers. I think ball pythons will climb on things as they are cruising through the savannah. It is not like they will come across a shrub or tree and think "I need to find another way around or I may fall if I climb up that thing". The fact is they can live long and healthy lives on the ground in tubs and cages. Adding enrichment items like branches and vines and other things to climb just helps to give them options to scoot around but going so far as adding or inferring the word "need" into the equation might be a bit of a stretch. Finding something somewhere does not mean it lives in that location.

Let's take my rosy boa for example. They are ground and crevice dwelling snakes as shown from years of scientific research and the desert like conditions (chaparral actually) they live in. When I pick mine up, aside from trying to bite me because he is crazy food driven, he climbs. Should I now assume he must be a tree climbing snake? Nope, do I provide him things in his cage to climb and did I observe him climbing to the lip of the top of the cage when I got him? Yes.

There are more than just trees in these snakes habitats and they will climb over. in, around, and through them. Termite mounds for example are pretty tall and they need often to climb up to find an opening. Let's not call these snakes semi arboreal as they simply are not physically designed for it. They are terrestrial snakes but even terrestrial snake can climb. You want to see an arboreal snake, check out a green tree python, carpet python, or certain rat snakes.

Let's admit enrichment items are a beneficial bonus but not something that withholding is going to lead to anxiety or depression as seen in other animals like dogs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samii

Yes lol I have the styrofoam out at this point as well, and we do not rely on the dials! Just not worth removing when he so enjoys fooling around

---

Careful with that, though...

The weight of the snake on those dial on thermometers can make them pop off eventually...however, they will still be VERY stick and the snake can get them stuck on their scales. Very difficult to remove from the snake without some trauma to the snake/scales :(

My new Ball Python loves to climb around his cage as well. At first I thought there was something upsetting him, but now that I can accurately monitor everything in his cage, nothing temperature or humidity wise should be bothering him. It's always at night too, so I think he just likes to explore at night due to being nocturnal! It's funny hearing him rustling around in his leaves and one time I walked in to see him curled around his whole branch. Still can't tell if he just likes moving around at night when he's awake and feels safer or if he's still just exploring his new cage.

I think the previous owner handled him a lot so he's too used to being taken out of his cage, but he had just eaten the day before so I was like "Sorry baby, I can't take you out!" :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

I would not go so far as to call a ball python arboreal or even call them tree dwellers. I think ball pythons will climb on things as they are cruising through the savannah. It is not like they will come across a shrub or tree and think "I need to find another way around or I may fall if I climb up that thing". The fact is they can live long and healthy lives on the ground in tubs and cages. Adding enrichment items like branches and vines and other things to climb just helps to give them options to scoot around but going so far as adding or inferring the word "need" into the equation might be a bit of a stretch. Finding something somewhere does not mean it lives in that location.
Let's take my rosy boa for example. They are ground and crevice dwelling snakes as shown from years of scientific research and the desert like conditions (chaparral actually) they live in. When I pick mine up, aside from trying to bite me because he is crazy food driven, he climbs. Should I now assume he must be a tree climbing snake? Nope, do I provide him things in his cage to climb and did I observe him climbing to the lip of the top of the cage when I got him? Yes.
There are more than just trees in these snakes habitats and they will climb over. in, around, and through them. Termite mounds for example are pretty tall and they need often to climb up to find an opening. Let's not call these snakes semi arboreal as they simply are not physically designed for it. They are terrestrial snakes but even terrestrial snake can climb. You want to see an arboreal snake, check out a green tree python, carpet python, or certain rat snakes.
Let's admit enrichment items are a beneficial bonus but not something that withholding is going to lead to anxiety or depression as seen in other animals like dogs.

---

"Definition of semi-arboreal: often inhabiting and frequenting trees but not completely arboreal."
"Definition of terrestrial: Zoology. living on or in the ground; not aquatic, arboreal, or aerial."
Defintion of arboreal: "living in or among trees."
Which best describes an animal that likes to live on the ground, but also likes to be in trees? Hmm. Somehow I don't think "terrestrial" describes it.
I'm not trying to be rude, and I am well aware that unfortunately I don't have years upon years of experience with reptiles like others do. However, my comment was based off of researching bioactive vivariums, which the majority of breeders wouldn't 't do, because again, most of them have to use rack systems. Most of them can't afford to have spacious vivariums for all their herps. I understand that, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Anyway, most bioactive vivariums include small trees. The ball pythons climb these and sit in them, like they might a hide. There's usually cover provided by the leaves, so of course they would love that. Since again, ball pythons don't usually like being out in the open.
Now, I didn't say ball pythons were "arboreal," or "tree dwellers." I said, "semi-arboreal." Please refer to above defintions.
I know most Australian species as you mentioned are arboreal, meaning, they mostly inhabit trees. Not saying they won't come down every now and then, but those species are tree dwelling. Branches and such are thus essential in these species' enclosures.
I didn't say that with ball pythons. I said, "they like to be on ground, but they also love being above-ground." Which is true.
I know they have numerous other things in their natural environment, and they will explore the majority of them. Both on ground and above-ground.
No, it doesn't mean they "live" there. Again, refer to above definitions. I'm often found at the library, but that doesn't mean I live there. However, I am book-obsessed. And the majority of those books are found at the library.
My comment was also based on my own confusion that a lot of ball python owners say that ball pythons do not climb as a rule, with no exceptions. I don't know how many don't believe that, but at least the majority of the ones I came across in my research did. However, ball pythons do climb frequently, and they seem to enjoy being on a branch.
That still doesn't mean they live in trees, which isn't what I said in the previous comment.
Adding in miniature trees or branches gives them more cover options, and more things to do beside just moving from their hide, to the water bowl, to another hide, and back again.
Terrestrial species can climb, of course, but they aren't frequently found in trees. They'll climb a tree if they want or need to, but they don't frequent them, like a ball python might.
Avian and Exotic Clinic said in a ball python care article, "Ball pythons are semi-arboreal." There was a science paper published saying the same thing.
Yes, they are physically built for climbing, as long as the branches are sturdy, since they are rather stocky. Their tails are great for hanging on to a branch, and their muscles are strong for the actual climbing part.
No, they don't "require" enrichment items like branches. They'll survive wihout them. Again, semi-arboreal animals don't necessarily need to climb, but they like to. However, they thrive in a bioactive vivarium. The BioDude says, " Ball pythons in naturalistic cages have been observed to become more active and toned. Picky eaters often become reliable. Raised in varied, enriched environments, snakes become less susceptible to stress, which makes them better captives. BioActive habitats make ball pythons healthy, happy snakes!"
So no, they're not "arboreal," as in, "they live in trees." But they do love to be in a tree, or on a branch, as pretty much everyone on this thread has said.

I actually think it's funny when I read people calling them 'pet rocks' as they do nothing ... then they post a photo of the set up which is a small tub , one hide and a bowl of water on a piece of newspaper - "what the hell are they expecting them to do !" :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

I actually think it's funny when I read people calling them 'pet rocks' as they do nothing ... then they post a photo of the set up which is a small tub , one hide and a bowl of water on a piece of newspaper - "what the hell are they expecting them to do !" :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

---

Exactly!!! They have no room to do anything!

I find it rather sad how some "rack only" or "cage only" sides have to continue to put the other one down.

I have been keeping Ball Pythons for 18 years now, I used to rescue a lot of them, too. Many imports, many were usually kept in sub standard conditions. Sick, infested, starved or just neglected. This is what introduced me to "tubs" because of quarantine and "sick snake" tub enclosures. It was amazing how those snakes would just improve and thrive. Even the ones that were not sick.

Also, I have kept my own personal animals in both cages as well as racks/tubs. Way back in the day, even in glass tanks. I'm a STICKLER for research and observation and taking good care of my animals. I have also kept other species of reptiles and snakes.

I can say without a doubt that in my experience Ball Pythons do far better in correctly set up racks/tubs then in most cages. It is quite offensive to say that people keeping them in racks/tubs simply don't have space for cages, don't have the money for cages or simply don't care. I beg to differ. I only have 6 snakes at this time. Very precious to me, not to mention valuable. One is in a "Display" cage, but I keep him in there mostly for "MY" enjoyment, not because he is "happier" in there.

I absolutely have the space for 5 stack-able nice cages and I have the money for it. I certainly care for my animals. I find they do better in tubs. That doesn't mean that the tubs are to small, or have no hides. That doesn't mean that they never get to come out. I chose to keep them in there for THEIR sake, not mine.

In the wild you will find them mostly in "open" and arid land. Grass lands or sparsely forested woodlands. Fields. Usually hiding in rodent burrows or termite mounds. Anywhere small, dark and hidden. They are mostly terrestrial, but will seek out trees. When found in trees, it is usually in tree hollows. They are looking for hides, even up there. Sometimes there are no termite mounds to be found, nor unoccupied rodent burrows. In the wild, Ball Pythons do not live in thick or lush forests. Young snakes will climb more readily and are also better at it. In captivity they often climb to get closer to a heat source such as the heat lamp. Or they are trying to find a different habitat, trying to "move elsewhere". True, sometimes they just explore. Maybe hunting, looking for a mate, checking out each part of the enclosure.

I used to have thick sturdy branches in my 4 foot cages (as well as hides, cover, correct heat and humidity) As the Ball Pythons got bigger, they used those branches rarely. Sometimes I would hear a loud WHAM in the middle of the night, I would get up and one of the adults had fallen of the branch, still "righting" themselves. Those branches were only about 6 inches off the ground at the highest, and they WERE sturdy, but adult and heavy bodied Ball Python make very poor climbers.

I don't buy into that "enrichment, climbing for fun and exercise" kind of thing. Not with Ball Pythons. Not after observing them for years in different scenarios. If Ball Pythons are out and about its usually for a good reason (not leisure time). Either they are getting ready to seek out food, they seek a cooler or warmer spot, or something bothers them. Sometimes they look for a mate. Something got moved about or they were handled and look for a "safer" spot.

To say a finicky Ball Python turned into a better eater after being moved to a large cage, I do not believe that at all. Its usually quite the contrary. Move them to a smaller and more private space, and you might get a finicky snake to eat. Given that husbandry is correct and there are no underlying issues, of course.

Can cages be made to work for Ball Pythons ? ABSOLUTELY !!! Glass tanks are difficult, but do-able. Actual cages are much better. And its awesome to see them move about in a beautiful setting. However, how often does one see an ADULT Ball Python in a beautiful decorated, lush, big cage ? You would have to have a very big cage to keep it looking like it did when they were small, because they bulldoze everything to the ground once they have size. I have a 3000 gr adult in a display cage. There is "deco". There is a wooden shelf for him to get up on. But its kept simple and sturdy. He spends a lot of time in his hide. To me, that is a good sign and he eats well and seems content. When he "wanders" is when I try to figure out what he "wants" or what is bugging him. To make a nice, naturalistic cage for a BIG Ball Python, with deco, wood, branches and greenery I would need at least a 6 foot cage. Everything would need to be very sturdy. The plants would have to be fake, or they will be destroyed. Even the fake ones need to be fastened and will likely need to be re-arranged quite often. Such a cage would be beautiful, no doubt. But honestly, if I want to go through that trouble I will pick a snake species that is active, and makes frequent use of all the space (not just out of stress). One that ENJOYS all that space, rather then prefers to be snug in a dark, hidden space.

There are SO many "papers" and articles on Ball Pythons. One can choose and pick parts of them, but you should always read the entire thing. To much was written by people that got their information from a myriad of sources, and not all of it right. I read an article that sounded really interesting. Until I got to the part of how Ball Pythons are "easy" to sex by length of spurs and size of head...There is a lot of mis-information out there, a lot of it from people that tend to anthropomorphize all kinds of animals.

To me, proof is in the pudding. If a Ball Python eats well, sheds well, is healthy, beautiful and breeds readily, then you have a content and healthy specimen.

It can be done in cages, it can be done in tubs. To say that Ball Pythons only hide and hang out in tight dark spaces for the majority of their time because they are kept in "prison tubs" is ridiculous. Enrichment is different things for different species. For some it means entertainment and fun. For others it means safety and privacy. Look at it from the species point of view, not from what you feel is right.

I'm still very tempted to add a couple amazing display cages to my house, for my enjoyment and the beauty of it. I will pick a snake species that enjoys such a space. One that likes to move around a lot, doesn't mind to hang out "in the open". I will continue to leave the majority of my beloved Ball Pythons in the rack and tubs.

To the people that prefer to keep them in cages I say, good for you. If it works for you and your snake, why not ? If you provide proper husbandry and your snake thrives, awesome. My male in his big cage is doing well. But until you've tried both methods, and both of them on a few animals and for a few years, don't assume one is superior over the other, or that one may be more neglectful or stressful to the animal then the other. That is simply not the case.