Pip Pip Hooray!!

Here is the first pip of 2013 from the pairing of my '07 normal female, and my '08 cinnamon male. First pip appeared just a few hours short of exactly 60 days at 89 degrees. This is my first clutch of snakes in over 20 years, (though I did breed a bunch of chameleons back in the 90's), and the first clutch of morphs for me. I bred normal corns, kings, and a couple of clutches of burms back in the 80's when most balls were wild-caught. Since then the breeding of balls has exploded, so I have some catching up to do, (especially with genetics). Back in "the day", albinos were just beginning to come on the market, and they were on the cutting edge of captive breeding. Nowadays it seems that the sky is the limit as far as morphs are concerned. Well, I may not know my genetics, but it seems I still have the knack for breeding herps.....feels good! I'll post more pics as they emerge.....next year I'm breeding that cinny male to a spider....then the fun will really begin!!

It's hard to see, but the first pip is on the far side of the egg at the top of the photo. I'll add more photos as they come out.

S

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps351b9303.jpg

I don't see it?

You should circle it in paint.

EDIT:
Congrats though.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I don't see it?

You should circle it in paint.

EDIT:
Congrats though.

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Thanks!

The photo editor on this PC sucks, so I cropped it on Photobucket. Now you can clearly see the slits. Cool stuff!!!

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...psed931c6c.jpg

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Originally Posted by Slitherous

Thanks!

The photo editor on this PC sucks, so I cropped it on Photobucket. Now you can clearly see the slits. Cool stuff!!!

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...psed931c6c.jpg

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There you go, now I see. Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Neal

There you go, now I see. Awesome.

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Yeah, I'm stoked....it's been a long time; I forgot how exciting pip day can be!! I've already got baby tubs waiting, so by morning I'll finally have something to put into them.:banana:

S

Congratulations!! hope all goes well, looking forward to seeing pics of them all when they are out!

Warmest Wishes,

John

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Originally Posted by macquirie

Congratulations!! hope all goes well, looking forward to seeing pics of them all when they are out!

Warmest Wishes,

John

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Thanks John. It's going to be a long night.............

S

Well, now I have a decision to make.....cut or not cut? Spent time reading up on the subject last night, and listened to a Reptile Radio interview with Mark of Marcus Jayne about egg cutting. Mark swears he is going to stop cutting eggs, but the majority of the posts I read advocated cutting the eggs after the first has pipped. What do you guys do? Here's a photo from this morning, not other eggs have pipped yet...should I or shouldn't I? Time for another cup of coffee while I ponder my next move........

S

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps98708edc.jpg

Congrats! :gj:

Congrats!

Whether or not to cut or not to cut is really up to you. I've got two clutches in the bator and one more on the way. I plan on not cutting at all unless I forsee a problem with an egg or a baby hasn't pipped well after it's siblings have crawled out of the egg. It's really up to you. Most of us, despite our personal opinions, will support you no matter what you decide.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Congrats!

Whether or not to cut or not to cut is really up to you. I've got two clutches in the bator and one more on the way. I plan on not cutting at all unless I forsee a problem with an egg or a baby hasn't pipped well after it's siblings have crawled out of the egg. It's really up to you. Most of us, despite our personal opinions, will support you no matter what you decide.

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Thanks for your comments. I'm really conflicted at the moment, but it is still only day 60, so I'm not in full-blown panic mode yet. The eggs look the same right now as the photo above from this morning, so I'm still just sitting here staring at them. The other eggs haven't pipped yet, and three of them aren't even creased yet, so I'm going to give it another day at least before doing any slicing and dicing, (if at all). My experience with incubating lizard eggs tells me that since none of the eggs has shown any sign of mold or discoloration they are most likely all viable, (plus I candled them and they all look good), but I'm not used to waiting so long between pip and emergence. I can't think of a better exercise in patience than waiting for these eggs to hatch. I'll post an update when something happens....thanks again!

S

I bet they will all pip in 1-3 days. You've waited 60 days, what's a few more ;)

I cut the last two of my clutch last week. The other 7 pipped on their on but the last two were stubborn so I cut to make sure they were ok. I cut 2 days after the first pip.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

Here's the first baby out of the egg, a 54 gram female. It seems strange, (to me at least), that none of the other eggs have even pipped? However, the rest of them look like they are biginning to crease, so I will wait at least another day before I decide whether or not to cut.
Sorry for the blurry image; this new laptop has a crummy photo editor, and my camera is 10 years old, so I got what I got. The image shows the coloration well, though I wish I could get it to focus better. I would call this girl a normal, but she has the clear brown head of her cinny sire, so maybe she will darken up after she sheds, (she seems to have a lot of yellow on her back as well). Whaddya think?

S

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...psc9e3a673.jpg

Looks like a pretty normal girl! Congrats!

Well. it's day 62 and no further pips. One egg hatched with a healthy baby yesterday, the other seven eggs are still sitting there looking fine but no pips as of this morning. Needless to say I'm worried about those seven. I read that incubation can last up to 70 days, but what I find strange is the fact that one egg hatched so much sooner than the others, (and if one hatched on time with a healthy baby, why not the others?). Have any of you had something similar happen?

S

Day 63, still nothing....no change. Touched one of the eggs and there was movement inside, but only on one egg. Shells seem dry and tough to the touch, with a couple not having creased yet. Single two-day old hatchling seems fine, very puzzled why one of eight hatched so much sooner than the others?

S

They will come out when they are ready! Don't worry :)

I love that picture you took!

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

They will come out when they are ready! Don't worry :)

I love that picture you took!

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Thanks, I appreciate the support. Patience is coming hard, I'd be heartbroken if I only get a one out of eight hatch rate. Here's a better photo of that one hatchling.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps8889cdad.jpg


Waiting...watching.....

S

The eggs still look perfect to me. If you are still seeing movement then they are okay :)

It is unusual that one pipped and exited the egg already. I would leave her in the egg tub with the other eggs, maybe she will encourage the others to join her? Haha

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

The eggs still look perfect to me. If you are still seeing movement then they are okay :)

It is unusual that one pipped and exited the egg already. I would leave her in the egg tub with the other eggs, maybe she will encourage the others to join her? Haha

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Weird huh? Everything looks great, I guess I'll just have to wait some more. Too late to leave her in the tub, I already put her in her own tub, she's burrowed under the paper towel right on top of the 90 degree hot spot, (I mist the paper towels twice a day). I'm going to name her "Spot" due to that single little black spot on one of the light spots on her back, (see photo above).

S

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Originally Posted by Slitherous

Weird huh? Everything looks great, I guess I'll just have to wait some more. Too late to leave her in the tub, I already put her in her own tub, she's burrowed under the paper towel right on top of the 90 degree hot spot, (I mist the paper towels twice a day). I'm going to name her "Spot" due to that single little black spot on one of the light spots on her back, (see photo above).

S

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She's so​ pretty!

I'm far from an expert considering I have hatched a total of 5 eggs, but mine did take a full week from start to finish, so don't panic yet. A lot of yours seem to be fairly plump still, or at least they were at the start of the thread, are they still deflating or do they look the same?

Couldn't stand it anymore. I candled each remaining egg, found a clear area near the top of each egg and sliced a small "v" in each. Below is a photo taken an hour later of the first egg cut, so I'm feeling a little better about the prospects for the clutch. First-born is two days old going-on-three waiting for her litter mates to catch up. Perhaps there is justice in the world? 63 days, 22 hours and counting.....

S


http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscb1eb4d5.jpg

Day 64. Hatchling from the 25th is doing fine, still waiting for her clutch mates to emerge. The first egg I cut yesterday still has the baby pictured above sticking it's head out looking around, but withdraws when it sees me, so I will take that as a good sign. All the eggs are cut now, but only the one is showing any signs of emerging. Tick tock, tick tock............

S

Ugh, they are sure making you wait! :sigh2:

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Originally Posted by LooptyLoo

Ugh, they are sure making you wait! :sigh2:

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Yes they are, and I'm scratching my head over it....very unusual. Worried about the remaining eggs obviously, but having the one stick it's head out and move around helps my nerves a little, (but still hasn't emerged). I'm still wondering why one perfect lil' baby would hatch so much sooner than the others. It's a puzzlement! 64 and counting.........

S

Wow is right! Mine pipped on monday and were all out by this morning.. That is taking a while.

What color are the veins on the inside of the egg. When they start to turn brown they usually come out shortly after..

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Wow is right! Mine pipped on monday and were all out by this morning.. That is taking a while.

What color are the veins on the inside of the egg. When they start to turn brown they usually come out shortly after..

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They looked red last night, but I'll candle them again to see if they were actually brown. The baby who stuck his head out today has retreated back into the egg again, and still shows no sign of vacating the premises. The remaining eggs that I cut are just sitting there; no sign of a nose anywhere. The now three-day old hatchling is doing great.....very weird stuff goin' on here.....

S

Just peek in the flap where you cut, the veins will either be red (because they're still in use) or turning brown (blood left in the veins congealing after the snake has detached). If red, wait em out, if brown, they should pop out soon.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Just peek in the flap where you cut, the veins will either be red (because they're still in use) or turning brown (blood left in the veins congealing after the snake has detached). If red, wait em out, if brown, they should pop out soon.

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Candled and peeked and the veins look more red than brown to me. The one baby in the first egg I cut yesterday is sticking it's head all the way out of the egg and just hangs out that way, but hasn't tried to come out of the egg at all. When it sees me or I shine the flashlight its way it darts back into the egg, so at least I know that one has good reflexes. Hatched baby is doing well, still waiting for his kin to emerge.......in 30 minutes it will be 65 days and counting...

S

The brown is a very unattractive color, kind of between low cocoa % milk chocolate and play sand. And it gets smeared around, I assume it's them crushing the (now dead) veins as they move around and churn it up. Are you able to see yolk still in any of them? They'll probably be blocking the view with their bodies, but if it's really obviously there, then there may be a problem (as opposed to them just taking their sweet time). Keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

The brown is a very unattractive color, kind of between low cocoa % milk chocolate and play sand. And it gets smeared around, I assume it's them crushing the (now dead) veins as they move around and churn it up. Are you able to see yolk still in any of them? They'll probably be blocking the view with their bodies, but if it's really obviously there, then there may be a problem (as opposed to them just taking their sweet time). Keep us posted!

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Can't see any yolk in any of them, just lots of amniotic fluid, even in the one with its head sticking out, he's swimming in it. Didn't notice any brown or cocoa colored anything. The one poking his head out is moving around quite a bit now and the opening has enlarged, perhaps at least that one is wanting to emerge. When I candle the less-creased eggs it looks like half clear fluid on top and half something solid on the bottom, (babies I hope).


S

Whatever you do - don't pull babies from eggs if they still have bright veins, and have not stuck their heads out yet - if you pull a baby from its egg before it's taken its first breath, the survivability goes way down. I suspect by the end of this weekend, they'll all be out.

I agree it's weird that you had one over achiever and the rest are taking their own sweet times!

Any updates today?

Sorry guys, both my computers died at the same time, took me til now to get back online. I haven't updated my Photobucket account on this new PC yet, so I can't add photos right now, but more babies hatched, (thank goodness, today is day 66). One normal 65 gram female yesterday, and so far two males today...a cinnamon and an aberrant-normal, (awesome normal). I can see two cinny heads sticking out of their eggs, so I'm hoping one or both of them is a girl. Why this clutch has decided to hatch over the length of a week I have no idea, but it looks like I'll get a 100% hatch rate. One egg remains which I haven't seen a head yet, but I can see it moving inside...hopefully that one will be a cinny/female too. I'm wondering if my home-made incubator had a stratification layer which caused temps at the height of the eggs to be less than shown on the temperature probe suspended above it; there wasn't much airflow in there......hmmmmm? I will post pics soon, sorry for the delay in updating this thread. I appreciate all of the encouragement guys, thanks!!

S

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Originally Posted by Slitherous

Sorry guys, both my computers died at the same time, took me til now to get back online. I haven't updated my Photobucket account on this new PC yet, so I can't add photos right now, but more babies hatched, (thank goodness, today is day 66). One normal 65 gram female yesterday, and so far two males today...a cinnamon and an aberrant-normal, (awesome normal). I can see two cinny heads sticking out of their eggs, so I'm hoping one or both of them is a girl. Why this clutch has decided to hatch over the length of a week I have no idea, but it looks like I'll get a 100% hatch rate. One egg remains which I haven't seen a head yet, but I can see it moving inside...hopefully that one will be a cinny/female too. I'm wondering if my home-made incubator had a stratification layer which caused temps at the height of the eggs to be less than shown on the temperature probe suspended above it; there wasn't much airflow in there......hmmmmm? I will post pics soon, sorry for the delay in updating this thread. I appreciate all of the encouragement guys, thanks!!

S

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Oh yay!! I'm so excited for you! :sunny: Finally!​

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Originally Posted by LooptyLoo

Oh yay!! I'm so excited for you! :sunny: Finally!​

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Thank you. I'm very relieved. And to add to the stress of a difficult clutch I had not one, but two laptops die on me on the same day, so it all has made for an eventful week. Thanks for the support, I'll add some photos soon.

S

Sorry to hear about the laptops! That is the worst.

But on the bright side... baby snakes!!!!!!! <3

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Sorry to hear about the laptops! That is the worst.

But on the bright side... baby snakes!!!!!!! <3

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Another bright side....got a new, faster laptop, (unfortunately now I have to pay for it:(), but I just found baby #6, another normal male with slightly aberrant pattern, (day 67). Two to go...please let them be cinnamon and female!!

S

Here are a few pics of recent hatchlings...still waiting for one last egg. 87.5% hatch rate so far. I will do a concise chrono;ogical series of photos after the last egg hatches.

S

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps66c01678.jpg

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1899ae95.jpg

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps573481af.jpg

I'm so glad to see that they are doing well. They all have great patterns, congrats!!

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Originally Posted by Shera

I'm so glad to see that they are doing well. They all have great patterns, congrats!!

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Yeah, so far so good. The cinnys have better patterns than their father, so I'm happy with that....my very first clutch with morphs!! One of the normals has a longer than normal tail stripe and some aberrant patterning so I'm happy with that too. This coming winter I'll breed that cinny sire to a spider female I have coming up...now that should really be exciting! Day 68....one to go!

Yay! I'm really glad they finally decided to come out for you, hopefully it takes a bit of the sting out of the computer failures. The beautiful patterns are a pretty nice bonus as well!

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Yay! I'm really glad they finally decided to come out for you, hopefully it takes a bit of the sting out of the computer failures. The beautiful patterns are a pretty nice bonus as well!

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Thanks, it's amazing how debilitating being without a computer can be nowadays. You don't realize how much you depend on one til it's gone, then you're totally isolated. Very happy with the babies though, and those two aberrant patterned cinnies are a real bonus. But, believe it or not egg #8 still hasn't hatched. Today is day 69, first baby hatched Aug 24, (day 60), and there is still one little nose sticking out of that last egg, (and moving around inside the egg; that's a hopeful sign); I'm waiting, waiting, waiting. If that one hasn't emerged by morning I'm going to open the egg up even more and take a good look. Baby #1 is doing fine and is blue already, so that one will likely have its first shed before the last egg has hatched.....weird......

S

Finally! 100% hatch rate! Though #8 waited eleven days to emerge, (for some weird reason), this 65 gram male emerged at 12:30am on day 71. I will get a group shot together soon, but for now here's a photo of #8.

S

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0e514b67.jpg

Since Photobucket is such a pain to use as far as keeping track of individual photos of these babies, I took a group photo and labeled them in the order they hatched. #1 shed yesterday, so I will be attempting a feeding with that one soon. All are doing well so far; thanks again for your help and support.

S

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps812b0a78.jpg

#1 as you can see is quite adventurous. #3 is a brat and strikes whenever I get close to him. My favorite "normals" are #2 & #3, though #4 is pretty cool too!.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps5c9c07b3.jpg

Nice!! Awww its so cute to see the already shed sibling right there.

I also hate photo bucket. Flickr for the win!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Nice!! Awww its so cute to see the already shed sibling right there.

I also hate photo bucket. Flickr for the win!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

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Yes, they are cute aren't they? When I uploaded the individual photos to Photobucket they just went in the "bucket" and got mixed up with all my other pics, and I didn't want to go through every single photo to find the ones I wanted. The group photo was a better choice for this forum. Too bad BP.net doesn't have the attachment capability that BLBC has, it's possible to upload photos directly from the computer there; this Photobucket nonsense here is just that...nonsense! After all is said and done though I'm just happy to have a fully hatched clutch, and thankful for all the help I've received here.

S

Thought I would share some info I learned about the cinnamon sire of the clutch pictured above. I got this pair of snakes from a young SoCal lady who was going off to college. and she sold me her snakes when she was moving in hopes they would go to someone who would be able to breed them, (glad she picked me, worked out pretty well!). I corresponded with her today to tell her about the clutch and she mentioned to me that the cinny was a captive-bred hatchling from two wild-caught normals! I think that makes this clutch rather special, (at least to me), and who knows what genetic surprise those babies are hiding in their genes?
That's all, nuthin' special, just thought I'd throw that out there. Babies are doing fine, waiting for them to shed...I'll report when they start feeding!

S