2 hides? thats just silly

Who ever decided to share to the world that "2 hides are necessary for Ball Pythons". I see it all the time "1 on the hot side, 1 on the cool side".

I'm just going to come out and say it....

You don't need 2 hides! 1 is enough.

Because when providing NEW owners with advice you shoot for what will work to provide an optimum environment until the said owner understand his animal and can experiment, not only with hides but other things as well.

There is a difference between recommending what will work with a new owner and what an advanced owner would do.

I obviously don't recommend things like don't use hide, hot spot, thermometer/hygrometer in the enclosure, feed on arrival etc.... yet this is what I do.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Because when providing NEW owners with advice you shoot for what will work to provide an optimum environment until the said owner understand his animal and can experiment, not only with hides but other things as well.

There is a difference between recommending what will work with a new owner and what an advanced owner would do.

I obviously don't recommend things like don't use hide, hot spot, thermometer/hygrometer in the enclosure, feed on arrival etc.... yet this is what I do.

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Oh, I'm all for recommending what will work - 100% agree. But 2 hides is not needed, and to be honest, I've never understood why so many people regurgitate that information. 1 hide is enough. Many breeders don’t even use hides at all, as you know. Recommending 2 hides, to me, sounds like an idea that was conjured up by the manufacturers and resellers of hides.

That's all - just my opinion.

IT IS MY OPINION - that recommending 2 hides is silly. *NOTE* This is only MY OPINION. not a tested fact. (My original post made it sounds more like a fact, so I just wanted to add this is my opinion only)

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Who ever decided to share to the world that "2 hides are necessary for Ball Pythons". I see it all the time "1 on the hot side, 1 on the cool side".

I'm just going to come out and say it....

You don't need 2 hides! 1 is enough.

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Because most new people are using a completely open glass aquarium, where hides are needed for some cover. I use a rack and only use one hide because it's already pretty dark and enclosed.

I'm wondering what your thinking is behind this fairly controversial black & white statement.

Because I keep my small collection in display-style enclosures (T8s), giving my animals the opportunity to thermoregulate without compromising their need to feel secure is something I feel is beneficial to their health and well-being. An easy way to provide a feeling of security is to provide a hide. More hides = more security. Of course, there are other situations and other enclosures that this is not necessary (many rack systems, for example). However, for most hobbyists (especially new keepers), the cost of a second hide is far lower than the potential negative effects of a ball python that doesn't feel comfortable in its own home.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by liv

Because most new people are using a completely open glass aquarium, where hides are needed for some cover. I use a rack and only use one hide because it's already pretty dark and enclosed.

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This, there is a big difference between a tub in a rack and an open glass tank. Most people will say that you only need one (if any) hides when using a rack, but a glass tank in a different matter.

I've never said 2 hides are BAD, and should never be recommended. I said that they are not "necessary", that you do not "need them".

Of course, there will be some cases where 2 hides are useful. I see the 2nd hide as a resolution to an issue though, not a requirement that belongs on a care sheet. Like orthotics for shoes, they are good in some cases - but only in a few cases... not all cases.

I agree 100%, there are some BPs who don't like to use a warm hide all day, and some of those BPs do get stressed from being exposed and they could benefit from a 2nd hide....but that’s a pretty small percentage of BPs. no?

Anyways. I guess its true. a 2nd hide doesn’t cost a lot more - so its not the end of the world to recommend it just incase.

I guess I just felt like ranting this morning. 1 of THOSE days. Sorry if I offended anyone.

http://www.tipshowtostudyincollege.c...stractions.jpg

Have a good day :)

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Originally Posted by liv

Because most new people are using a completely open glass aquarium, where hides are needed for some cover. I use a rack and only use one hide because it's already pretty dark and enclosed.

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I agree here, think about it. I gurantee 95% of people here started out with a tank over a rack system so it's more open so the two hides are needed so its just general advice for the novice keeper. I remember you selling your BP tanks before switching over to a rack system because of the efficiency and later learned a rack is more private so no hide or only one hide is needed.

On the other hand for us keepers with experience 99.9% of us have a descent size collection and we converted from a single tank to a rack system. So I agree here with you Rick we know better about hides in our rack system because you aren't a novice keeper so you know better.

Let me preface this by saying I do not use two hides and in some cases, I don't use any hides. It depends on the animal.

I keep all my ball pythons in a rack system in a dark room that doesn't get a lot of foot traffic.

The fact of the matter is that most people who are keeping ball pythons as pets are not keeping them the same way a breeder would. So why should we give them advice as if they are keeping them the same way? People come to this forum with questions like "Help my snake isn't eating, what can I do?". I assume you know the basics of ball python care. If a snake doesn't feel safe in its enclosure, it is unlikely to eat. Suggesting 2 hides is not some scheme in order to get you to spend all your money on hides. It is a suggestion that often leads to solving the problem.


I agree with you that ball pythons don't NEED 2 hides, but for new owners keeping their BPs in aquariums, 2 hides can mean the difference between a snake that eats and a snake that is stressed.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Of course, there will be some cases where 2 hides are useful. I see the 2nd hide as a resolution to an issue though, not a requirement that belongs on a care sheet.

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But that's exactly where this kind of advice is needed - on a care sheet. Care sheets aren't meant for advanced, or even intermediate, hobbyists. They are meant for beginner keepers. A care sheet is designed as a quick reference for people new to the hobby to resolve as many issues as possible - in most cases before they become issues. Having two hides is an example of a solid recommendation for a relatively common problem.

Side note: I don't think you're offending anyone. I simply feel that your post came across similar to, "Let them eat cake." :)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

[COLOR=#3E3E3E]But that's exactly where this kind of advice is needed - on a care sheet. Care sheets aren't meant for advanced, or even intermediate, hobbyists. They are meant for beginner keepers. A care sheet is designed as a quick reference for people new to the hobby to resolve as many issues as possible - in most cases before they become issues. Having two hides is an example of a solid recommendation for a relatively common problem.

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true. very true indeed.

I don't use hides in general.
I have one hide for one extremely picky eater and one maybe for shy babies.
They are in an enclosed rack where the rack itself can be seen as a hide.


"Two hides" advice is part of the default set up that will work for new keepers.
As they gain experience, they learn what works for their animals and what does. 80% of my animals don't care if they have a hide. However, the other 20% seem to eat better and more consistently with a hide.
My tubs are heated perfectly, but if I had a larger tank where there was a significant cold side, I would probably use two or more hides. I know certain ball pythons would rather sit in cool end hide than go to a heat source with no hide. If that ambient cool end was too cold and the snake refuses to leave the hide, it could result in an RI snake. I know the scenario sounds silly, but it happens with unknowledgeable new keepers.

As a relatively new keeper, I will say that I am really thankful for the 2 hides recommendation. I have 2 and my little girl goes back and forth between a few times a day. She is in a tank and I just can't imagine her with only one. She uses them both so much!
Now, my corn...she could probably be fine without any hides. She hides in the substrate as much as she uses the hides.

I knew just one was needed!!!!! Thanks!! :)

I think I'm only using two hides to fill up the tubs a lil more. My BPs aren't massive but something I might experiment with a little.

They bounce between hides now so not sure how they would handle one missing.
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my ball likes both of her hides :)


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they may only NEED one, but I'm sure they'd appreciate two.


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I always provide two hides for my younger specimens, one on the cool side and another on the warm. Whether it is the substrate, tub, a shoe box, or an actual manufactured reptile hide; I know for a fact that my scrub would be extra pissy if I did not make her cage this cozy...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...180705_889.jpg

Oh poop...


I have 5 hides.

;)

I do have a glass vive, though. I have heard many people use tubs and don't use hides. I guess it could depend on your snake as well.
If you don't have many snakes too, that could make the difference. I only have two, so I go all-out with their tanks. But I'm sure they don't care much either way.

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Originally Posted by kameo37

As a relatively new keeper, I will say that I am really thankful for the 2 hides recommendation. I have 2 and my little girl goes back and forth between a few times a day. She is in a tank and I just can't imagine her with only one. She uses them both so much!
Now, my corn...she could probably be fine without any hides. She hides in the substrate as much as she uses the hides.

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I just had to laugh! My corn is doing this as well.
Although, I have four-six hides in there right now (if you include paper rolls and shed boxes ontop of the rock hides and whatnot) and she uses all of them. She rotates weeks... :P

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Who ever decided to share to the world that "2 hides are necessary for Ball Pythons". I see it all the time "1 on the hot side, 1 on the cool side".

I'm just going to come out and say it....

You don't need 2 hides! 1 is enough.

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I agree, for my Ghost all I have is one hide and that's all I had since day 1 when I got him.. as for my new little guy I ahve 2 and since he's so small and he's in a 20 gallon long I'm trying to keep it fairly busy and cluttered

I have two hides for my lemonblast. He uses both daily, even though he is kept in a tub that is only half opaque (the store was out of all-clear tubs that day, so he got a clear and fushia tub. Lucky him right? Lol) I am sure he would be stressed with out both hides. He's kind of a grumpy dude to begin with.

The corns get one big hide over the hot spot, but they only use it after eating.

Unless you're buying expensive hides, offering two won't hurt the snake or your budget. I wouldn't start out with only one for ANY reptile if I could avoid it. These are animals that like their privacy.

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Everyone gets a hide, and if they choose not to use it, they don't have to have it.

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