Hatchling Weight Gain - Am I missing something?

I figured this was best placed in Breeding since it's something you don't get hands on with until you hatch snakes. This is a long winded description with all relevant details, scroll down for the synopsis.

I'm wondering if I did / am doing something wrong or if there is a lot of 'internet expert' opinion floating around that is leading me to think this is strange. I hatched out 6 babies on 7/13 and they all came out between 60 - 61g. I waited for them to shed and offered their first meals a few days after. They are in 6qt tubs with a hide and on aspen because I was nervous about them refusing food. I wanted them to eat something moving to stimulate a feeding response so I gave them rat crawlers with fur and eyes just barely cracking open. These probably weighed 18-22g (complete estimate). That's 1/3 of their body weight. The snakes all ate within minutes and while they did have somewhat noticeable lumps, I would not say they were in danger of 'bursting' or anything like that. 5 days later I offered the same group of rats that were then 5 days older and probably closer to 22-25g. They all ate again within minutes and again, showed a lump but not excessive. Third meal, same thing... same pups, this time they are around 25 grams a pop (I picked the smallest ones I had). These weights are just estimates but by the third feeding these rats were the size of adult mice with their eyes fully open and fully mobile, which may even be pushing 30 grams. Now all 6 snakes have started their 2nd shed and I thought it was a good time to check weights again. The snakes that shed out and pooped big healthy poops weigh between 125-130g already.


TL;DR - My hatchlings are barely a month old and more than doubled in weight in 3 feedings (empty) from 60 - 125+g.

Why are people selling snakes that are months old, many feedings, and still weigh under 100 grams? Why do people start their snakes on such small meals? My most important question: has anyone directly (not "I heard X can happen) had an experience where they fed a large prey item to a hatchling and it ended poorly? Did I do something wrong or do people severely underfeed hatchlings? Would a snake size up a meal that is too large and have complications from it (have you experienced this DIRECTLY - no offense but your opinion is not helpful here)?

Thanks for the input!

i don't increase the size of the rat pups for at least a month, if they take a rat pup right away, and they usually won't start for me unless i give them hopper mice, which have considerably less meat on them. you are so lucky yours ate immediately, and on rat pups!

Lots of people start off thier BPs on rat fuzzies (I'm not sure why - but they do). And so, after 4 meals or so, of rat fuzzies, the BPs dont gain much weight.

ps. Lets see some updated photos!

This is interesting. I'm curious as to what other people think about this. I feed my hatchlings (all still around 100g, 2 months old) weaned ASFs. Some of them were a little slower to start than others, but they are all gaining weight and pooping.

I have a bunch of rat fuzzies in my freezer I want to try feeding, but I am worried they are too big! They are way thicker than the thickness of the hatchlings.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

This is interesting. I'm curious as to what other people think about this. I feed my hatchlings (all still around 100g, 2 months old) weaned ASFs. Some of them were a little slower to start than others, but they are all gaining weight and pooping.

I have a bunch of rat fuzzies in my freezer I want to try feeding, but I am worried they are too big! They are way thicker than the thickness of the hatchlings.

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I would say Rat fuzzies are too small. All my hatchlings start on pups.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

I would say Rat fuzzies are too small. All my hatchlings start on pups.

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Maybe I am unclear about what the difference between a pup and a fuzzy is? I breed ASF, not rats, so I don't have the best understanding of rat sizing XD

The rats I have in my freezer are between 20-30g. They just seem so big next to my tiny hatchlings!

Some people start their hatchlings on live mouse hoppers because it's the fastest (and cheapest) way to get them feeding. Hoppers only weigh ~10g, so after 3 meals the hatchling will retain ~20-25g, which could still put them under 100g. Rat pups are not too large for the average hatchling. I prefer to and have started mine on rat pups and haven't had any problems. I pick the smaller rat pups (20-25g).

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Lets see some updated photos!

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...84#post2130584

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Maybe I am unclear about what the difference between a pup and a fuzzy is? I breed ASF, not rats, so I don't have the best understanding of rat sizing XD

The rats I have in my freezer are between 20-30g. They just seem so big next to my tiny hatchlings!

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A fuzzy would be like a pinky with pattern and peach fuzz with eyes totally shut. A pup would have mobility and maybe the eyes cracking open and also called a crawler - they kind of wobble around when they move or 'make a break for it' and then tucker out and collapse. A hopper would have the eyes open and be able to move freely.

IMO feed the 20-30g that's what I gave mine at 60g and they gobbled them up. Then again, I made this thread to see if anyone was going to tell me a good reason NOT to do that.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Maybe I am unclear about what the difference between a pup and a fuzzy is?

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A fuzzy is the size between a pinkie and a pup, so named because the hair on it looks like peach fuzz.

I don't tend to weigh my prey until I tried to look at f/t for this years for sale babies. Based in the 10% thing what I feed is huge! As you said in the 20-30g range. I actually prefer the way I did it last year tho, typically my babies gain 80-130g a month. I had no issues and as long as its not too big I don't know of any reasons not to feed larger prey.

when I feed my hatchlings, I look for that slight lump in the belly. I don't offer a huge meal, but I feed every 3 to 4 days. with my female hatchling holdbacks, I had many that bred at 18 months with an average clutch size of about 6 eggs. after a few years of producing hatchlings. you'll find what works best for you. it could differ from what works best for me. good luck with that clutch, sounds like they're doing great already! don

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I figured this was best placed in Breeding since it's something you don't get hands on with until you hatch snakes. This is a long winded description with all relevant details, scroll down for the synopsis.

I'm wondering if I did / am doing something wrong or if there is a lot of 'internet expert' opinion floating around that is leading me to think this is strange. I hatched out 6 babies on 7/13 and they all came out between 60 - 61g. I waited for them to shed and offered their first meals a few days after. They are in 6qt tubs with a hide and on aspen because I was nervous about them refusing food. I wanted them to eat something moving to stimulate a feeding response so I gave them rat crawlers with fur and eyes just barely cracking open. These probably weighed 18-22g (complete estimate). That's 1/3 of their body weight. The snakes all ate within minutes and while they did have somewhat noticeable lumps, I would not say they were in danger of 'bursting' or anything like that. 5 days later I offered the same group of rats that were then 5 days older and probably closer to 22-25g. They all ate again within minutes and again, showed a lump but not excessive. Third meal, same thing... same pups, this time they are around 25 grams a pop (I picked the smallest ones I had). These weights are just estimates but by the third feeding these rats were the size of adult mice with their eyes fully open and fully mobile, which may even be pushing 30 grams. Now all 6 snakes have started their 2nd shed and I thought it was a good time to check weights again. The snakes that shed out and pooped big healthy poops weigh between 125-130g already.


TL;DR - My hatchlings are barely a month old and more than doubled in weight in 3 feedings (empty) from 60 - 125+g.

Why are people selling snakes that are months old, many feedings, and still weigh under 100 grams? Why do people start their snakes on such small meals? My most important question: has anyone directly (not "I heard X can happen) had an experience where they fed a large prey item to a hatchling and it ended poorly? Did I do something wrong or do people severely underfeed hatchlings? Would a snake size up a meal that is too large and have complications from it (have you experienced this DIRECTLY - no offense but your opinion is not helpful here)?

Thanks for the input!

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My take...

"Why are people selling snakes that are months old, many feedings, and still weigh under 100 grams?" - Most likely, because they are lying about the feed shedule and have been "maintenance" feeding the babies until they can sell them...less feedings = less $$$ = more profit!

"Why do people start their snakes on such small meals?" - Because they don't realize they can take larger meals.

"has anyone directly (not "I heard X can happen) had an experience where they fed a large prey item to a hatchling and it ended poorly?" - Nope. I've had some feedings that I thought may have been pushing it, but all went fine...

"Did I do something wrong or do people severely underfeed hatchlings?" - No, and sometimes.

"Would a snake size up a meal that is too large and have complications from it (have you experienced this DIRECTLY - no offense but your opinion is not helpful here)?" - Not with hatchlings, but I've had adults try and eat a meal apparently too large. They just struggled for a while and gave up...rat never got more than halfway down. Fed the next day with no problems. Never had a regurge or anything like that though.

I start my hatchlings on f/t rat pups...if they don't take that they get mouse hoppers or small adult mice, and then back to trying rat pups after a few feedings of the mice...

x2 to what sho22 said for the first 2.

I think i've only ever had one or two refusals bc of too big a prey item. BUT it honestly also just could have been that she tried eating it butt end first and got messed up and then just gave up. I'm not 100% sure. Take that with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by sho220

My take...

"Why are people selling snakes that are months old, many feedings, and still weigh under 100 grams?" - Most likely, because they are lying about the feed shedule and have been "maintenance" feeding the babies until they can sell them...less feedings = less $$$ = more profit!

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this was the first thing that came to mind. that and they probably don't have room in any of their bigger racks and are trying to keep the babies in their hatchling racks as long as possible where they have room.

I start my hatchlings off on adult mice for the first two feedings. I have found that hoppers are way to small and a waste of money. Third feeding is usually a good sized rat pup. Has worked out well for me so far.