Nuclear?

A butter pastel to a firefly can make a nuclear super fly. Is a pastel lesser and a firefly the same and if not, what is it referred to as?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

A firefly has fire and pastel, a lesser pastel has, well lesser and pastel. A super fly is a super pastel fire. A nuclear is a lesser fire pastel. A nuclear super fly is a lesser fire super pastel.

No one has coined a combo name for it, since most of us see no reason to consider them different morphs, I see no reason you couldn't call them nuclear. I see butter pins advertised as kingpins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by inarikins

a nuclear is a butter/lesser and fire.

---

fixed!

Mike Wilbanks has coined the Nuclear as a Fire x Butter combo. It is quite well known. Some consider the Butter and Lesser the same, but there are subtle differences.

http://pythonregius.com/firebutterballpython.aspx

Here is mine:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psffa9f1bc.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grcforce327

fixed!

---

omg thanks I'm mortified I messed that up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inarikins

A firefly has fire and pastel, a lesser pastel has, well lesser and pastel. A super fly is a super pastel fire. A nuclear is a lesser fire pastel. A nuclear super fly is a lesser fire super pastel.

---

I think you misunderstood my question. Butter, fire, super pastel is a nuclear superfly. When this has lesser instead of butter, I wanted to know if that was still referred to as"nuclear". I think I got my answer though. Does anyone know if it has been produced with lesser?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

The Lesser Clown is referred to as a King Clown- completely different than a Butter Clown.

IMHO Butter and Lesser are not the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coreydelong

The Lesser Clown is referred to as a King Clown- completely different than a Butter Clown.

IMHO Butter and Lesser are not the same.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coreydelong

Mike Wilbanks has coined the Nuclear as a Fire x Butter combo. It is quite well known. Some consider the Butter and Lesser the same, but there are subtle differences.

---

I completely agree. I have multiples of each and I notice subtle differences in them.



Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scooter11

I think you misunderstood my question. Butter, fire, super pastel is a nuclear superfly. When this has lesser instead of butter, I wanted to know if that was still referred to as"nuclear". I think I got my answer though. Does anyone know if it has been produced with lesser?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

---

"Is a pastel lesser and a firefly the same and if not, what is it referred to as?"

You asked if a pastel lesser and a fire pastel were the same thing... If you wanted to know if a lesser fire and a butter fire were the same thing you should have asked that. Semantics, I guess.

I consider butter and lesser to be the same morph so yes, I would consider a lesser fire to be a nuclear, as well.

Sorry, I'm planning on putting a firefly to a pastel lesser. Had it stuck in my head. What I meant was are the results of that the same as with a butter and a firefly. Meaning, as far as terminology

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coreydelong

The Lesser Clown is referred to as a King Clown- completely different than a Butter Clown.

IMHO Butter and Lesser are not the same.

---

Allowing for the usual variations with the Lesser/Butter and Clown genes, I don't see any difference. The eye's look to be a different color, but other than that...:confusd:

Lesser Clown

http://www.whsreptiles.com/wp/wp-con...sser-Clown.jpg


Butter Clown

http://ballpython.ca/images/morphs/c...tter-clown.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

Allowing for the usual variations with the Lesser/Butter and Clown genes, I don't see any difference. The eye's look to be a different color, but other than that...:confusd:

Lesser Clown

http://www.whsreptiles.com/wp/wp-con...sser-Clown.jpg


Butter Clown

http://ballpython.ca/images/morphs/c...tter-clown.jpg

---

Quite a bit more of a difference if you look at all the examples on WOBP's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coreydelong

Quite a bit more of a difference if you look at all the examples on WOBP's.

---

I did look through the rest of the pics there, as well as a google search, and there's just so much variation I don't see how you could say they're different. You can pull up pics of just Lesser Clowns and there's all kinds of variations...same with Butter Clowns. I just don't see how you can definitively say one way or the other...

From what I have seen butters tend to be a lighter yellow, that brightens with age...lessers tend to darken with age. Which is the main reason I think butter and fire in a combo work well together as fires get nicer with age also.

As for patterns they are inbetween, but I feel butters are a bit more melt-y if that helps. I've seen pretty outstanding blushing on both and almost none on both.

Butter = Lesser.

Same mutation, different lineage.
Any difference in the two is due to natural variation. Not because they are different morphs. Like how Citrus pastels are known for their great color compared to the more blushed out but less yellow Graziani pastels. Both can look rather different, but still pastels in the end. Same thing with lesser butter.

There are light, dark, blushed, non blushed, busy, reduced, more yellow, more cream, etc etc examples of both lesser and butter. If there's a butter that looks a certain way, there is a lesser out there that is the same. And vice versa.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satomi325

Butter = Lesser.

Same mutation, different lineage.
Any difference in the two is due to natural variation. Not because they are different morphs. Like how Citrus pastels are known for their great color compared to the more blushed out but less yellow Graziani pastels. Both can look rather different, but still pastels in the end. Same thing with lesser butter.

There are light, dark, blushed, non blushed, busy, reduced, more yellow, more cream, etc etc examples of both lesser and butter. If there's a butter that looks a certain way, there is a lesser out there that is the same. And vice versa.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

---

Agree 100%...

I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a butter versus lesser post. I was hoping that someone would clear up the terminology issue for me. When butter is mixed with fire it's nuclear. Do you refer to lesser mixed with fire the same or does it just lack a term? Also, has anyone produced a lesser/fire/super pastel? It sounds as though it just doesn't have a term. Whether you believe they are the same or not, I do believe there are differences. When I say this I'm using the high end examples of the gene. Most high end pastel lessers have a different look to me than most high end butters. When you get into sub par specimens I think the differences are less notable/non existent.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Dudes, fire, butter, pastel(super or not) is a Butterfly or a super Butterfly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scooter11

I do believe there are differences. When I say this I'm using the high end examples of the gene. Most high end pastel lessers have a different look to me than most high end butters. When you get into sub par specimens I think the differences are less notable/non existent.

---

So you just want to pic certain examples of a morph instead of all examples. Do you think the traits of the other parent come into play at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

I did look through the rest of the pics there, as well as a google search, and there's just so much variation I don't see how you could say they're different. You can pull up pics of just Lesser Clowns and there's all kinds of variations...same with Butter Clowns. I just don't see how you can definitively say one way or the other...

---

What he said!^^^^^^^^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grcforce327

So you just want to pic certain examples of a morph instead of all examples. Do you think the traits of the other parent come into play at all?

---

Obviously they come into play. All I am saying is that the better the animal when it comes to those two morphs the easier it is to pick up on subtle differences between the two. When you get down to the lower end it gets more difficult.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Okay but we all understand its (pastel, fire, butter) called a butterfly yes?

Just one more thought regarding the Lesser vs Butter debate...

With the price of Butters being slightly higher over the years than Lessers, how many people sold off Lessers as Butters? How many people sold off Lesser combos as Butter combos? Considering what people will do for the almighty dollar, I'm willing to bet it has been done a lot. And all those Lessers that were sold as Butters were bred. And all those babies, which should have been Lessers, were sold as Butters because the owners bought the parents as Butters. Not to mention the Lesser x Butter breedings that have been done and the offspring sold off as whatever the breeder guesses they are...

I guess what I'm getting at is, if their actually was a difference in the two genes, it's all been muddied up by now...

I propose we just change the name to BLessers...:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coreydelong

Quite a bit more of a difference if you look at all the examples on WOBP's.

---

There is a LOT of variation in the butter/lesser X clown combos. I've seen king clowns from the same clutch look more different from each other then that example given by sho220

Also, to the OP... You can call it a Lesser fire, or your can call it a butter fire, or you can call it a Nuclear. I would consider it all the same thing.

If I ever produce one, I'll call it a Lesser Sulfur (because those are the lines I'm working with and I really don't like the name nuclear) :weirdface