Is this rat too big for my BP? [pics]

http://i.imgur.com/48ycvUf.jpg

From the pic I think it would be fine.

I would say it could easily take something that size, maybe bigger. Easiest way to tell...weigh your snake, and feed 10-15% of its body weight.
For example...a 500gram snake could eat something 50-75grams.
AND......that snake is pretty darn SKINNY!!! it should probably be eating 15% of its body weight every week. I don't know if this is a recent rescue or not but it needs to be taken care of

EDIT: just looked and saw you just got him off CL. feed 15% body weight as mentioned above

The ball looks skinny in that picture, how often are you feeding.

u know i was gonna say the same thing unless its a hatch

I'm following his thread elsewhere and we are dealing with an underfed snake.

OP: I would try that size every 5 days until he starts to fill out.

He's actually probably a few months old, even judging by his small size. He's underfed and I just got him. Also thank you all for the quick responses. I'm a newbie with this right now, but won't be for long!

No its fine

Another silly question. Can the rats tail be too stiff to eat? He seems interested in it, a f/t but its taking him a while to attempt to eat it. He's under a night light with lights off, both my snakes seem shy and wanting to eat in peace in the dark but he keeps getting distracted and leaving it too until I wiggle it around again.

As long as it's been thawed out correctly I don't think there will be a problem. Was the snake eating f/t before? If not that might explain his losing interest n u dangling it reignites the snake's predatorial instincts... just a thought

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Originally Posted by kippers

Another silly question. Can the rats tail be too stiff to eat? He seems interested in it, a f/t but its taking him a while to attempt to eat it. He's under a night light with lights off, both my snakes seem shy and wanting to eat in peace in the dark but he keeps getting distracted and leaving it too until I wiggle it around again.

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As long as it's defrosted for the appropriate amount of time you should be good. I usually defrost my rats in a refrigerator 24 hours day prior to feeding day, day of, I just warm up with a blow dryer for about 10 minutes.

Have you tried feeding live? Personally it is more convenient for me to feed f/t, but just to get something in his belly, I would try live before f/t if you run into any difficulties feeding f/t.

He is used to eating f/t. His previous owners fed him f/t and I'm assuming most pet shops do as well? I've been dangling it and it feels warm to the touch and dipped its head in hot water for 20-30 seconds. He still may not be thawed correctly.
I'm actually kind of worried about the quality too. Its hair is falling out.. Paid 2 bucks a piece for the rats.

Maybe I need to throw this one out and adjust my methods? I was advised to just keep it in a plastic bag and immediately from freezer to warm water to thaw and then hot to get its temp up before feeding. I watched a video on YouTube and took him out of the bag and dunked it, but then had to dry it off again. I turned out the lights and my bp keeps coming back to it but not eating.

Edit: this technique of immediate freezer to thaw works for my corn snake, but he is on pinkies and its a quicker process. I keep it in a bag and set it in a container and he likes to be left in the dark and alone before he will eat.

Up to you with the F/T, but as skinny as he is and is not hitting the one you are offering, you may want to consider a live rat until he gets up to the appropriate size. He is way too skinny and underfed. Good luck!

I agree with trying live for a few weeks. Small rats, make sure you are close enough to stop the rat from hurting him if he doesn't go for it immediately. It seems offering live triggers their hunting/feeding instinct. Any snake that has been traumatized by something is going to be difficult to feed. This may wake him back up.

Once you get him feeding regularly and get some weight on him, you can look into switching him back to f/t. I've seen many on here completely against feeding live, but in the case of an underfed animal... It should always be about what is best for the snake. <I'm a firm believer in the food chain... Snakes eat live mice/rats... End of story.>

best of luck, let us know how it goes.

Go live for a few until he gets healthy. Most likely once he starts eating good, he will hit those f/t rats with no problem.

As skinny as that guy looks I question if has has eaten at all lately. DO NOT feed him heavily right off the bat. Start with every 7 days the first couple feedings to make sure he digests OK. Feeding a snake that hasn't been eating is similar to feeding a snake that has regurged. You have to get their system going again slowly. I would try small live rats for a while. When he's eating regularly you can switch him to f/t.

The thing is he ate TWO medium sized mice on Monday without a problem f/t and I'm honestly thinking that this rat is too big for him right now. I tried the blow dryer method and he struck at it 3 times he just couldn't see a way to get it down. I'm gonna go back to CJ's (our local exotic animal place) tomorrow as its closed today and try again with one smaller rodent before I switch to live. He's already got a few puncture wounds (what they look like anyway) and I'm afraid he would actually be afraid of a live rodent ? I'm really quite stuck at the moment. I feel like I should have looked closer at him before I bought him but then again glad I did.

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Originally Posted by kippers

The thing is he ate TWO medium sized mice on Monday without a problem f/t and I'm honestly thinking that this rat is too big for him right now. I tried the blow dryer method and he struck at it 3 times he just couldn't see a way to get it down. I'm gonna go back to CJ's (our local exotic animal place) tomorrow as its closed today and try again with one smaller rodent before I switch to live. He's already got a few puncture wounds (what they look like anyway) and I'm afraid he would actually be afraid of a live rodent ? I'm really quite stuck at the moment. I feel like I should have looked closer at him before I bought him but then again glad I did.

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It wouldn't hurt to stick with the f/t mice for now. At this point it's more important for him to eat than to worry about him being imprinted on mice.

The problem could be that rats and mice and a completely different smell so he could be avoiding the rat because it is not a mouse. You could take one f/t mouse and one small f/t rat, get him to take the mouse and while it is going down right as the tail is going into his mouth gently place the rats head in the snakes mouth. Only do this with a really small rat. I would take a medium mouse and a rat that is slightly lager than the mouse. Get him feeding like that a few times to get him to weight and then switch him to just rats.

Right now anything in that ball python would help.:colbert:

Poor guy. That looks bigger than what I'd try with one that thin, but I'm still pretty new, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah its probably 3x what he's used to. I'm stopping by another shop as we speak to get him something. Poor thing.

Just as an update I got mice adults from Petco (much smaller than the "small rat" standard from CJs and he is in fact eating it. Thank goodness. So I'm assuming the other rats are 1) too big 2) not fresh /the CJs ones had stiff tails and the Petco ones have soft tails that give./ or 3) not thawed properly? 4) other

http://i.imgur.com/ThXzSWc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FFrbz0Q.jpg

I will be feeding him a second shortly, as I did monday when he ate two.

Just wanna chime in and say I've never had a rat with a stiff tail after thawing. Seems really strange...


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This is what I'm thinking, and it was the same way with all five that I bought.
The rats had some kind of dirt or droppings in their fur and had stiff tails. I'm hoping that it wasn't bad quality that is deterring my baby from eating.
I am worried because shipping in the proper size rodent is expensive and risky as I'm not quite sure what he needs/ will be needing right yet until I have his feeding habits established and put some meat on his bones. CJ's has good reviews and the rodents I bought just a few days prior were not stiff or dirty in any way. It's confusing and I'd love to hear what you have to share.

btw: he's onto mouse number two if anyones following. I figure the more information available the better advice/ care he'll receive.

For his feeding habits he had most likely been fed mice his whole life so that is what he knows as food. Not all rodents smell the same so if all they ever smell as food is a mouse that is all they are going to eat. Just like with humans here in the states a steak cooking is known to be food but something from say the middle east cooking may not smell like food to us so we do not get hungry from it. A snake has to recognize the prey item as food before it will try to eat it. You can do as I said after the snake is healthy with some weight to switch it to rats which have more meat on them and are healthier IMO for the snake. There could be nothing at all wrong with the rats except that they are not mice... Also you could get some mice and keep them in a tank and get a f/t rat thaw it out rub it in the mouse bedding and then try to feed it to the snake.

After seeing the lump the mouse left, I'd say a small rat is too large for him. If you try rats, again I'd try large pups or weaned. For now, I'd stick with the mice until he gains some weight.

I was actually surprised at how much of a lump it made as well because when I bought them I was still thinking the size was not right. Again I appreciate all the help and will continue to update as needed. As time goes on I will try to integrate rats into his weekly diet as was advised.

@OP, that rat is fine, but depending on how he responds as far as taking it or not you may want to drop down in size a bit and just up a feeding schedule to say 5 days versus weekly. If he's underfed he may not want to take something that size but hopefully he does. Let us know.

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Originally Posted by spider_ball

I would say it could easily take something that size, maybe bigger. Easiest way to tell...weigh your snake, and feed 10-15% of its body weight.
For example...a 500gram snake could eat something 50-75grams.
AND......that snake is pretty darn SKINNY!!! it should probably be eating 15% of its body weight every week. I don't know if this is a recent rescue or not but it needs to be taken care of

EDIT: just looked and saw you just got him off CL. feed 15% body weight as mentioned above

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You can't always go by the 10-15% of the body weight rule. You strictly go by the biggest part of the snake.

This poor guy was not cared for, I just looked in his old hide that was way too small for him and his skin was stuck to the inside. He is doing OK right now after eating his mice and will be eating again the same amount on friday

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kippers

http://i.imgur.com/ThXzSWc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FFrbz0Q.jpg

I will be feeding him a second shortly, as I did monday when he ate two.

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You did see the first pic, right? This is a mouse, half the size of a small rat and it pushes the "girth of the snake" rule. Feeding a rat that size is asking for a regurge.

I'm aware of the size difference but unsure of what you're implying? Should I not have fed him the two mice? Its been about 24hrs and he seems to be doing fine and nothings come up yet. Thanks for the reply. :)

My reply actually was to Neal. I just disagree that the rat you had originally wasn't too big. You're doing fine. :)

Oh okay thanks. Haha I actually have another concern with him about his skin, too. I'll go ahead and post those pics in a second.

http://i.imgur.com/uEN4xaV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a8nhRKW.jpg
He was trying to help me take these pics. ha

That looks like an old scar from a burn.

The other guys did use a heat pad, I've refrained for now because I don't have a thermostat to control it. Man.

This little guy has had the nightmare life.

He will be ok now that he is in the right hands. Looks to me like pretty recent scarring. A few sheds after a few good meals and it will barely be noticeable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by treeboa

My reply actually was to Neal. I just disagree that the rat you had originally wasn't too big. You're doing fine. :)

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I never said it wasn't too big. It was a good size for the snake, just the only reason it looked a tad bit bigger is because it was bent.

My thing for the 10-15% of the body weight was meant just because a snake weighs a certain amount doesn't mean it can or will eat something 10-15% of it's body weight. You could have something 15% of the bodyweight that is still too big for a snake, it all depends on numerous factors, that's what I meant tree.

Update:
Frank just shed, his first shed with me, and it was very patchy and flaky. It did not come off in one piece (not sure if good or bad), and his little bumps did go away with the shed. But I did notice his under belly is still very dry and flaky( with the scarring I'm assuming ) I just wonderwhat I can do to help him. I notice he's gaining weight and I'm very excited that his backbone is not sticking up anymore but he doesn't really enjoy soaking. The water is warm and I place him in gently and let him cling to my hand but he always moves to crawl out.

What is your humidity in his enclosure?

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His humidity is about 50 percent.
His warm side is 80 his cool side is 75 and a basking temp on his tree of low nineties

When he starts to go into shed up humidity closer to 70. Does he have a hotspot on the ground or just on top of the tree?

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The more I look at him I notice a very small looking cut on his underside. Note that only near the end of his body/tail does his skin get rough, crimp together, and feel flaky. The cut is there and I did notice a tiny amount of blood on his shed. I'm very nervous now. He has no issues being handled and is very calm so I don't think he is in pain right now and there are no sharp things in his tank, except may the shoe box openining.Could he have a paper cut? How would I make that safer? I'm worried again. He's been eating fine and drinking.

Are you sure there's nothing sharp on the tree?

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His hot spot is just the tree. I will post a picture of his setup. I just put a water bottle in there under the heat lamp to up the humidity because his water bowl is too far away to have much impact. http://imgur.com/kRi6OWe
Here's the cut
http://imgur.com/XEl6ZMW
http://imgur.com/QxSDgfp
http://imgur.com/N773kYi
The last two are his skin abnormalities. The last photo is (top) the tail (bottom) his body to his head.

Looks like scarring from a burn to me. As for that cut... do you mean the little tiny red line? It's hard to see what you're talking about, plus the photo isn't in focus so it's a little hard to see what's going on.