Why are people so mad/shocked about price drop?

So on fb today a guy came on looking for a banana and the usual stuff popped up "how much", "blah blah blah.." Then people started getting mad about bananas around $3k... And I had to ask myself do people not understand how this works or do they just choose to not acknowledge it... This was my response.. Edited of course :D what's everybody's personal take on it? I realize people have spent a lot of money on these guys but i would have to assume you also saw what was happening and took that into consideration as well..

My reply to angry fb posters hating on price drops:

Really people? Not that I'm doing it or have any bananas... But, Do you not realize how stupid you sound? Why are you complaining? This is how the system works. This is how the high end morphs filter down into everybody's hands. That's what keeps this business going, if people could only buy pastels and spiders with no hope of ever getting a $20,000 banana do you honestly think they would keep going? Heck no. Would you still want to pay $20,000 for a spider or a pied? No, I didn't think so. But I remember when they cost that much and more. It's called a market economy. Supply and demand. If you didn't think this day would come and they would stay at $40,000, or $20,000, or even $10,000 then you are obviously aloof to how this game works. Better get ready to complain when the ghi's drop to $1,000 too then. Lol if somebody has a banana and they want to sell It for $100 then who am I to say they can't do that with their property. I guarantee if somebody told you that you couldn't price an animal how you wanted you would throw a fit. So quit complaining. Suck it up.

Not looking to start an argument.. ive spent $10k on a snake before so i know what its like but i just want to know if I'm the only one who thinks this way?

The vast majority of people are stupid. Not only do they not how goods are priced in a society that uses currency to normalize value, but they are incapable of learning or conceptualizing it even on a broad scale.

If I spent 15K on a male Coral Glow early last year, I'd be pissed to see them at 3K too.

I *think* that what has everyone making such a fuss is that the banana morph pricing has dropped faster than most. It is common for pricing of anything to drop year over year, but the pricing of this particular morph has dropped by a LOT. In today's market people get a gene like this, and then pump out hundreds, if not thousands of snakes to recoup their costs as fast as possible. It's like a factory. Back in the day, dam I sounds so old, breeders would breed the new morphs slower. They would hold back almost all the babies. They would sell 1 or 2 at a higher price, but hold back most. Today it’s different. It’s not about keeping and selectively breeding the gene, it’s all about recouping the cost and making profits. This is not the case for ALL breeders. There are still some breeders who care more about selectively breeding morphs to make the nicest examples of that morph and care less about making back their money quickly - but that are in the minority. This is the new norm, I think.

Year 1 there will be 1 male who breeds with 1 female, perhaps there will be 3 males born.

Year 2 the 3 new males and the original male each breed with 6 females (each female produces 3 more males) in that year bringing the new total up to 72 males.

Year 3 the 72 new males, plus the original 1, plus last years 3 will each breed with 6 females (each female produces 3 more males) in that year bringing the new total up to 1368 males.

Year 4 the 1368 new males, plus the original 1, plus last years 72, plus the previous years 3 will each breed with 6 females (each female produces 3 more males) in that year bringing the new total up to 25,992 males.

…You can see how quickly the supply will catch up with the demand making the price lower and lower.

One day all Ball Pythons will cost the same amount of money, 25.00 wholesale. That won't happen for a LLOONNGGG time, but it is somewhat inevitable, IMHO.

Mike Willibanks just made a comment on youtube to someone laughing at him saying that bananas would drop to 1k next year. I am paraphrasing but he basically said, I dont care, i have already made 4-10x profit on what i put into it.

I think any complaining (for lack of a better word) would be coming from newer folks into the hobby (such as myself) who dont understand how things work. They dropped 20-30k at the expense of other things in life and now they see their animals prices dropping it makes them nervous. What they dont realize is that you have to account for the animals total profit over its entire life, not just the first year.

As far as the artificial pricing is concerned. It really does happen, breeders get together to keep prices stable for a while. They can form these "cartels" for a while with new genes but once it gets pass 5-10 people they really have no control over pricing from there because everyone has an incentive to undercut the others. It doesnt matter to them because they already made their profits and it works out for the smaller breeders with less cash to spend as well.

This is all fairly simple free market economics and peoples ignorance to this subject only shows why there are so many "collection sales" on kingsnake and fauna. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrLang

The vast majority of people are stupid. Not only do they not how goods are priced in a society that uses currency to normalize value, but they are incapable of learning or conceptualizing it even on a broad scale.

---

Exactly, The infrastructure of a small market (it's huge to us but keeping things in perspective it is very very minuscule) is a very fragile and fine tuned machine. When you take and create a huge influx of goods that are all Identical and being produced as fast as possible of course the price is going to be affected negatively.

naaa.. there is some stuff out there that is still really hard to produce..Like you take anything dominate the best you'll ever get is 50:50 odds on them the number of Calico females it would take to make selling calico's whole sale at that price is absured. Or take some of the 3 gene recessive stuff that stuff will be super hard to hit for more years than I'll be alive..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

If I spent 15K on a male Coral Glow early last year, I'd be pissed to see them at 3K too.

---

But if someone had the business sense to buy one then and then they hadn't made their money back by now then shame on them that's their own fault.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zach_24_90

But if someone had the business sense to buy one then and then they hadn't made their money back by now then shame on them that's their own fault.

---

Lot of factors involved in that. Doesn't mean it's not upsetting. I mean I'm one of those people that bought mojaves and Lessers for 3+K for females and 6 months later Morph King reptiles dumped the market with them for 900.00 each. So I've been on the getting end of people doing some business that hurt my pocket book. Being able to "Make your investment" back is a huge gamble. But thems the rule of the game.

Yes they are haha I've been on it too its a gamble. But if you hit one right your good to go

I think bananas were publicly over priced for awhile they were going at a much lower price in the background.

And yes I think they will definitely be in the $1000-$1500 range next season.

This industry acts a bit like a dwarf version of the global stock market. Any investment is a gamble because the values are always changing. We all hope for our investments to earn profit or break even, but a drop like that is hard to make up. So yes, investors are going to be rather miffed and I can't blame them. But them's the breaks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emilio

I think bananas were publicly over priced for awhile they were going at a much lower price in the background.

And yes I think they will definitely be in the $1000-$1500 range next season.

---

Maybe for a pastel or another basic double gene banana. I think they will be around 700-1000 this Time next summer no doubt. I mean heck they have dropped 4k since march

This is going to happen over and over, so I don't really expect the whining to stop any time soon. :/

Since I know that these expensive morphs will most likely come down to affordable levels, it gives me time to focus on my other projects before adding new blood ;)

It's a different ball game on dominant and codom genes, because you pop a banana male into a female heavy collection and you'll have bananas hatching by the handfuls. This floods the market, and drops the price faster.

The last few new morphs have been recessive or the super form is where it's at. So it took longer to make hets or to make similar codom/dominant animals to make the super form.

Hence the sharper price drop.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

Banana's are ugly the peppering is a major turn off ( Just sayin):2cent:

I completely agree! When something new pops up, it's uncommon, maybe even rare, and exciting, everyone wants it, people are willing to pay the high prices, so those lucky breeders who produce them CAN charge more. But as they become more common, prices naturally drop. It's like that with everything. Personally... I'm not in the position, nor have the desire, to spend thousands of dollars on a snake. So I don't. There are some currently high priced morphs I'd love to have, but I'm patiently (or not so patiently! lol) waiting for their prices to drop. Some day I might suck it up and pay more money, but at that time my desires will have changed. Maybe I'll just wait until my snakes are breeding (if I decide to breed them) and trade for the higher priced morphs instead (if I can find a seller willing to make trades, or even partial trades). Who knows. But right now that's what they are priced at, that's what the breeders/sellers are able to price them at. If someone wants to change less, so be it, let them! Then the beginners like me can afford them! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zach_24_90

Maybe for a pastel or another basic double gene banana. I think they will be around 700-1000 this Time next summer no doubt. I mean heck they have dropped 4k since march

---

Maybe I'll be able to get one sooner rather than later!!! :O :D

It is something I like. I'm not big on albino and some of the related morphs, but something about banana... mmmmm

Investing...it's not for the weak of heart...

My first lavender albino cost me $20,000 and by the time I bred him and produced lavender albinos the price had dropped to $5 - $6k. Sounds bad. Well, I produced 2.9 that year and did very well. Plus I produced a bunch of hets. Now it sounds good. And, the project has continued to produce babies for me for years after this. Now it sounds even better!

I bought a banana last year and I currently have eggs cooking. Would I like the price to be higher, sure. But I'll be fine. Plus, I bred it into several different projects that I look forward to down the line.

People need to think these things through a bit more but when people hear that spiders were once $20k or bananas were $30k they are shocked. It's human nature.

Forget about bananas, i can't wait until i can afford a GHI!!! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

Investing...it's not for the weak of heart...

---

You bring up a good point. The people who look at their BP's as investments or as a business will complain the most. Those of us happy to break even or run at a slight loss every year (so we don't have to worry about dealing with the IRS along with the time required for overhead and administration of a business) will simply wait until the morph we want drops into our price range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

You bring up a good point. The people who look at their BP's as investments or as a business will complain the most. Those of us happy to break even or run at a slight loss every year (so we don't have to worry about dealing with the IRS along with the time required for overhead and administration of a business) will simply wait until the morph we want drops into our price range.

---

Ehhhh... Idk about that.. I know a lot of guys who are very business savy. Being business oriented these guys understand that business is business and they understand the way that a free market works. That means investments pan out and some don't and they know how the world works like that. I would almost argue that the ones who are complaining are the ones who are in balls to get rich quick and dump 10k in overnight and then get mad when that plan doesn't reward them the next night.

Cliff Notes: People who lost money complained. People who didn't, didn't. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

Forget about bananas, i can't wait until i can afford a GHI!!! :)

---

Me too!! Hopefully my pastel enchi lesser girls will be ready hwne I get him ... :dance:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

Forget about bananas, i can't wait until i can afford a GHI!!! :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Me too!! Hopefully my pastel enchi lesser girls will be ready hwne I get him ... :dance:

---

I'm waiting on a clutch of Huffman x GHI to get laid next week "insert evil laugh here" :D

In all honestly.. paying 30k for a snake is absolutely insane. I love my snakes just as much as anybody else, have since I was kid. but there is a fine line to draw.. and spending more then 1k for a snake is insane

Some people work smarter, the others work harder. I think what we're seeing here is dumb people complaining about having to work harder because they aren't seeing the intelligent solutions and they aren't planning ahead of the market. Those people should be working with legacy morphs at stable prices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zach_24_90

I'm waiting on a clutch of Huffman x GHI to get laid next week "insert evil laugh here" :D

---

Not cool :colbert:

ps. Can I have a female please :please:

So, it I had paid 15K for one last year, I would have plugged him into ALL of my girls this year. Let say I hit the 50% odds across the boards and had to sell them at 3K this year to compete with the new market. I would have easily made my money back and then some. People are just being greedy.

Big investments don't always make big returns. But a big investment that recoups and makes a profit, if any, is a square deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

One of the other things that we haven't mentioned in this thread is the male maker banana/coral glow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but arent these animals just fueling the fire of price reduction? Females create a hedge against price reduction due to the fact that they can only be bred to one other animal to reproduce the desirable gene. Males that make 95%+ males can quickly spread the banana gene with no females to slow things down. I would expect any other codom to hold its price much better because you have about a 50% chance of hitting females. The male maker bananas due to the gene drastically reproducing in a short time span are blowing the supply out the roof. Because they produce almost all males that attain breeding size in less then one year this is also why you see the price drastically reduce each year instead of every 2-3 years. The only thing that is somewhat stablizing the price of bananas is the overwhelming demand for them because people like them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

One of the other things that we haven't mentioned in this thread is the male maker banana/coral glow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but arent these animals just fueling the fire of price reduction? Females create a hedge against price reduction due to the fact that they can only be bred to one other animal to reproduce the desirable gene. Males that make 95%+ males can quickly spread the banana gene with no females to slow things down. I would expect any other codom to hold its price much better because you have about a 50% chance of hitting females. The male maker bananas due to the gene drastically reproducing in a short time span are blowing the supply out the roof. Because they produce almost all males that attain breeding size in less then one year this is also why you see the price drastically reduce each year instead of every 2-3 years. The only thing that is somewhat stablizing the price of bananas is the overwhelming demand for them because people like them.

---

Also true

Granted I'm totally new to this, and I don't breed, but after a ton of research. The banana is very high on my list of "want to own" list.

However it got me thinking has there ever been a "wanted" or "must have" to breeders? That after the few years they have been out now, that they are THAT rare any more? Are there really only but a handful of people producing them?

My opinion, in the end, the banana will end up as a alternate looking "albino" to the average Joe Shmoe at the conventions who is looking into keeping a ball.

I know even to this day the top of my "must own" is a classic albino. It don't have to be het for anything just a albino and I'd be happy as a pig in. ....

Now just for the highway morph to drop in the next year or two. I saw a combo of it I NEED to have. I've been obsessing over it since someone posted the photo. It's right up there with axanthic combos for me and that's saying a lot.

the pricing on ball python morphs lately = it's a race to the bottom.

Anybody that thinks they are going to get rich breeding BPs is fooling themselves. There are plenty of guys making a good living at it, but I personally don't know anyone who has gotten rich (some were already rich) The truth is you have very little control over your investment. New morphs don't prove out, suspected co-doms/doms end up having no super or an unspectacular one or end up dominating every cross their mixed with (champagne), snakes die, snakes turn out to be sterile (or have other breeding problems, i.e. Desert females), and on and on. Animal breeding is more of a gamble and is a less sure way to wealth than the Stock Market.

At one time, I wanted to be the next Bob Clark or Pete Kahl, but when I got into it reality hit quickly. These days I just wait until the market sorts itself out and then buy what I want when I can afford it. This year I got a Genetic Stripe and a Champagne, dreams come true. In the future I'll get my Ghi and Highway at a price I can afford. These days I'm patient and just sit back and enjoy myself! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by don15681

the pricing on ball python morphs lately = it's a race to the bottom.

---

Too bad you can't short sell bp's...

I spent close to $600 on my first Ball Python and everything to go with it two days ago and I thought I splurged, lol! Either way, I'm 100% happy with my new Pinstripe!


My post 'I've Got my first Ball Python!' Check her out!


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...st-Ball-Python!

Saw an ad for banana male for 2750 shipped.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

Forget about bananas, i can't wait until i can afford a GHI!!! :)

---

GHI is insane. I've got big plans with that one. I will have one in the next two years for sure.

EDIT: Repeat post.