Humidity Problems

I'm having difficulty maintaining humidity, can anyone help me out with some tips? My terrarium currently has cypress mulch. I also saran wrapped the cool side since its a screen top. I spray the terrarium when I wake up in the morning (the hygrometer reads about 54-60) when I get back from school and then before I go to bed. But when I come home it's usually at like a ridiculously low of 20-15. I'm not sure if my hygrometer is too high off the bottom of the tank.

You're probably going to have a hard time maintaining humidity because of your location.

You could try running a humidifier in the room the cage is in. (I would suggest a warm mist style unit)

What are you using to heat the cage? What is the temperature of the room that the cage is in? What is the lowest temperature the room gets during an average year?

What side of the cage is your hygrometer on? (hot side/cool side)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You're probably going to have a hard time maintaining humidity because of your location.

You could try running a humidifier in the room the cage is in. (I would suggest a warm mist style unit)

What are you using to heat the cage? What is the temperature of the room that the cage is in? What is the lowest temperature the room gets during an average year?

What side of the cage is your hygrometer on? (hot side/cool side)

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Yeah definitely, in arizona our A/C is blasting. But I would say the room temperature is about 77. And I use a 75 watt basking bulb to heat the hot side, and the hygrometer is kind of in the middle, but leaning more towards the cool side. It's under the Saran wrapped area and where I spray all the furnishings.

I live in Phoenix, AZ and I was able to do a couple things to maintain humidity in a glass tank without the drastic drops you are experiencing.

1) Switch to Eco-Earth as your substrate, does a wonderful job holding humidity.

2) Insulate your tank. I used the stuff below, I only put it on the bottom of the enclosure. With this same material, I also cut out a cardboard box that would fit perfectly on the cool side of the tank, then took two pieces of insulation on each side of the cut out, and tapped it with foil tape.

3) Make sure you have an accurate hydrometer. I recommend the below along with a test kit to calibrate the meter if need be. Don't use the adhesive attachment though that comes with it, use a glue gun to adhere it.

4) Make sure if your using a heat lamp, put it on a dimmer or a thermostat if you can. I ran a Herpstat 2, one probe for my UTH and another probe for my lamp. This will prevent your lamp from running full power 24/7.

http://amzn.com/B00BDN2ILC
http://amzn.com/B000A3UBLA

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...pse2e1c55f.jpg

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...ps61ad0047.jpg

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1000208...5#.UgxI8qa9LCQ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

Yeah definitely, in arizona our A/C is blasting. But I would say the room temperature is about 77. And I use a 75 watt basking bulb to heat the hot side, and the hygrometer is kind of in the middle, but leaning more towards the cool side. It's under the Saran wrapped area and where I spray all the furnishings.

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If the room temperature doesn't drop below 75 F you can ditch the heat lamp and use a Under Tank Heater. (UTH) Heat bulbs are bad for humidity. UTH's don't effect humidity, but require a thermostat to control them and probed thermometers to monitor them.

Here is a thread that goes over this stuff in detail, and has links to recommended products: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Thermometers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

I live in Phoenix, AZ and I was able to do a couple things to maintain humidity in a glass tank without the drastic drops you are experiencing.

1) Switch to Eco-Earth as your substrate, does a wonderful job holding humidity.

2) Insulate your tank. I used the stuff below, I only put it on the bottom of the enclosure. With this same material, I also cut out a cardboard box that would fit perfectly on the cool side of the tank, then took two pieces of insulation on each side of the cut out, and tapped it with foil tape.

3) Make sure you have an accurate hydrometer. I recommend the below along with a test kit to calibrate the meter if need be. Don't use the adhesive attachment though that comes with it, use a glue gun to adhere it.

4) Make sure if your using a heat lamp, put it on a dimmer or a thermostat if you can. I ran a Herpstat 2, one probe for my UTH and another probe for my lamp. This will prevent your lamp from running full power 24/7.

http://amzn.com/B00BDN2ILC
http://amzn.com/B000A3UBLA

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...pse2e1c55f.jpg

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...ps61ad0047.jpg

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1000208...5#.UgxI8qa9LCQ

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Wow that's really smart, thank you. That affects the humidity?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

If the room temperature doesn't drop below 75 F you can ditch the heat lamp and use a Under Tank Heater. (UTH) Heat bulbs are bad for humidity. UTH's don't effect humidity, but require a thermostat to control them and probed thermometers to monitor them.

Here is a thread that goes over this stuff in detail, and has links to recommended products: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Thermometers

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That had some really useful information, I just learned a lot from that! But if UTH's just heat the bottom of the tank, isn't ambient temperature what you're shooting for when creating a hot side for your python?

It helped me, I only had to re-hydrate the Eco-Earth maybe once a week to keep up humidity. I also had a decent size water dish.

One thing I did do was remove the cover I made for about an hour when I got home from work - just to make sure fresh air got inside the enclosure.

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=1898

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

It helped me, I only had to re-hydrate the Eco-Earth maybe once a week to keep up humidity. I also had a decent size water dish.

One thing I did do was remove the cover I made for about an hour when I got home from work - just to make sure fresh air got inside the enclosure.

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=1898

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So you essentially made your screen top tank into a temporary screen top?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

That had some really useful information, I just learned a lot from that! But if UTH's just heat the bottom of the tank, isn't ambient temperature what you're shooting for when creating a hot side for your python?

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No, the air in the cage can stay around 80 on both sides, (75 at the lowest) and just have a hot spot on the floor of the cage around 90.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

That had some really useful information, I just learned a lot from that! But if UTH's just heat the bottom of the tank, isn't ambient temperature what you're shooting for when creating a hot side for your python?

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The hot spot is going to come from either a UTH or Heat Lamp. UTH is preferred and UTH won't effect your humidity. I had my heat lamp on the same side as my UTH. This gave me a perfect hot side and has the heat dissipated, gave me a perfect cool side of 80 degrees. I found this on another site, I used this when setting up my cage. The only difference is my water dish was in the middle.

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...psf55661d3.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

So you essentially made your screen top tank into a temporary screen top?

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Yep

double post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

No, the air in the cage can stay around 80 on both sides, (75 at the lowest) and just have a hot spot on the floor of the cage around 90.

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Oh okay cool, I did not know that! Thank you. That is going to help tremendously cause I'm almost positive that my basking bulb is baking the cypress mulch haha. Thank you guys! You guys really know what you're talking about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

I bought a white dish towel to place over just so it looked a little nicer.

Wife wasn't too thrilled about using the pillow cases either lol...but it looked decent so she didn't mind too much.

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5ad6e1fe.jpg

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What made you use a UTH and a heat lamp?

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

What made you use a UTH and a heat lamp?

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We run our AC pretty cool, I was aiming for the 80 degree marker for the overall ambient temp, the heat lamp helped with this. But only because it was on a thermostat, it was on a dimmer before. A dimmer will work but just more of a manual process to keep it adjusted accordingly.

Oh okay gotcha! At night when I shut everything off I have the ceiling fan in my room on high and it gets down to about

78-79, so assuming I shut off the fan I think it wild he perfectly around 80!

(During the day that is

Would be* darn autocorrect..

As long as the room stays over 75 you should be fine with just the UTH. Closer top 80 is ideal, but if it drops a few degrees at night it won't be a big deal s long as the hot spot stays at 90.

Shutting off the fan will also help humidity as any air movement removes moisture. I use both as well since my cooler runs 24/7 <gotta love living in the desert> and temps do tend to dip a bit low overnight. I use a dimmer on the lamp though, keeps an ambient of about 83. My cool side does drop to about 77-78 overnight in my girls tank, but she is really good about thermo regulating herself. It took a while <and some hair pulling/ overwhelming desires to drink> to find that sweet spot with humidity, tank is a consistent 50-53% now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

As long as the room stays over 75 you should be fine with just the UTH. Closer top 80 is ideal, but if it drops a few degrees at night it won't be a big deal s long as the hot spot stays at 90.

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So the zoomed uth can be adjusted to 90 degrees? And I also read online that UTH's can malfunction and get up to like 120, have you ever had anything that drastic happen? Also what substrate do you use?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

Shutting off the fan will also help humidity as any air movement removes moisture. I use both as well since my cooler runs 24/7 <gotta love living in the desert> and temps do tend to dip a bit low overnight. I use a dimmer on the lamp though, keeps an ambient of about 83. My cool side does drop to about 77-78 overnight in my girls tank, but she is really good about thermo regulating herself. It took a while <and some hair pulling/ overwhelming desires to drink> to find that sweet spot with humidity, tank is a consistent 50-53% now.

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Yeah agreed, the desert makes something as simply as turning your steering wheel in your car a gamble for 3rd degree burns, but thank you again! You guys are such a huge help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

So the zoomed uth can be adjusted to 90 degrees? And I also read online that UTH's can malfunction and get up to like 120, have you ever had anything that drastic happen? Also what substrate do you use?

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On their own a zoo med (or any) UTH will get way to hot. I've measured them hitting 130+ F after only a few hours plugged in. This is why they must be controlled by a lamp dimmer or thermostat.

A thermostat uses a temperature probe to measure the amount of heat being generated by the UTH then adjusting the amount of power going to the UTH to control the temperature. A good thermostat will be able to keep an UTH within a degree of the temperature you set it to. The only way for the UTH to get too hot is for the thermostat fail. High quality thermostats will have multiple layers of protection to prevent this from happening. The herpstat line of thermostats has a device that physically cuts power going to the UTH in the case of thermostat failure, making it nearly impossible for the UTH to get too hot.

Herpstats: http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

I would recommend the herpstat intro + or the Herpstat 1.

The link I posted earlier has links to cheaper thermostats as well. These are less accurate, and have fewer features, but will get the job done on a budget.

I prefer paper towels. This is because of their ease of cleaning, and humidity neutrality. The type of cages I use (animal Plastics PVC reptile cages) and the climate I live in (Tropical Florida where the humidity outside today was 96%) means I have the opposite problem that you do. I have to lower the humidity levels in my cages. For you, I would suggest a 1/2" thick layer of eco-earth kept slightly damp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

So the zoomed uth can be adjusted to 90 degrees? And I also read online that UTH's can malfunction and get up to like 120, have you ever had anything that drastic happen? Also what substrate do you use?

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An unregulated UTH can def get that hot. I tested mine before hooking it up to a thermostat and *shivers* scary high temps in a matter of minutes. You absolutely MUST have a thermostat for your UTH.

I use a combination of reptibark and Eco earth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

So the zoomed uth can be adjusted to 90 degrees? And I also read online that UTH's can malfunction and get up to like 120, have you ever had anything that drastic happen? Also what substrate do you use?

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By its self no, you plug in the Zoo Med or heat tape into a thermostat, set the thermostat to the temp you want, in this case 90 degrees, then adhere a probe from the thermostat to the UTH. Depending on the type of thermostat, once the probe senses the temp you set it to, it will either limit the power to the UTH to maintain the 90 degrees (proportional) or shut it off completely. (on/off). Most like proportional thermostats because it consistently maintains the desired temp. A on/off style like the hydrofarm for example, will shut off once it reaches the desired temp but usually won't turn back on until 3-5 degrees below the temp you set it to.

You will also need a thermometer to verify the surface temp on the inside of the enclosure. The Aru-Rite indoor/outdoor thermometer does a good job measuring the surface temp where your UTH is placed, the ambient temp of the enclosure as well as your humidity.

http://www.walmart.com/msharbor/ip/8...81640&veh=mweb

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...psac98f278.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

By its self no, you plug in the Zoo Med or heat tape into a thermostat, set the thermostat to the temp you want, in this case 90 degrees, then adhere a probe from the thermostat to the UTH. Depending on the type of thermostat, once the probe senses the temp you set it to, it will either limit the power to the UTH to maintain the 90 degrees (proportional) or shut it off completely. (on/off). Most like proportional thermostats because it consistently maintains the desired temp. A on/off style like the hydrofarm for example, will shut off once it reaches the desired temp but usually won't turn back on until 3-5 degrees below the temp you set it to.

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Okay cool! I think I'm going to get

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

By its self no, you plug in the Zoo Med or heat tape into a thermostat, set the thermostat to the temp you want, in this case 90 degrees, then adhere a probe from the thermostat to the UTH. Depending on the type of thermostat, once the probe senses the temp you set it to, it will either limit the power to the UTH to maintain the 90 degrees (proportional) or shut it off completely. (on/off). Most like proportional thermostats because it consistently maintains the desired temp. A on/off style like the hydrofarm for example, will shut off once it reaches the desired temp but usually won't turn back on until 3-5 degrees below the temp you set it to.

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The herpstat thing, is it possible to just use that being that it tells me the temperature and will keep it at the desired temperature? Or is the probe thermometer a thing you must have?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

The herpstat thing, is it possible to just use that being that it tells me the temperature and will keep it at the desired temperature? Or is the probe thermometer a thing you must have?

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I guess it could be possible, with how cheap you can pick up the Aru-Rite I mentioned, I would not do it with out it, just so you can have that extra piece of mind knowing the surface temp your reptile is sitting on is safe. If you get a Hydrofarm, I would say its a 100% necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

I guess it could be possible, with how cheap you can pick up the Aru-Rite I mentioned I would not do it with out it, just so you can have that extra piece of mind knowing the surface temp your reptile is sitting on is safe.

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Yeah I gotcha! I figured that was the purpose but I was just curious. (Sorry about all the questions)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

The herpstat thing, is it possible to just use that being that it tells me the temperature and will keep it at the desired temperature? Or is the probe thermometer a thing you must have?

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The ideal set up is to have the herpstat's probe sandwiched between the UTH and the outside bottom the the cage. You don't want to put the thermostat probe inside the cage because if the snake moves the probe away from the hot spot the thermostat will run the UTH at full power trying to get the probe to read the set temperature (which is now sitting on the cool side of the cage)

This is where the probed thermometer comes in. it is inside the cage, and is what you measure temperatures with. You use the thermometer to set the thermostat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

Yeah I gotcha! I figured that was the purpose but I was just curious. (Sorry about all the questions)

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No worries at all - please continue to ask any and all questions you have, this forum as plenty of experienced keepers that are more than glad to help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

The ideal set up is to have the herpstat's probe sandwiched between the UTH and the outside bottom the the cage. You don't want to put the thermostat probe inside the cage because if the snake moves the probe away from the hot spot the thermostat will run the UTH at full power trying to get the probe to read the set temperature (which is now sitting on the cool side of the cage)

This is where the probed thermometer comes in. it is inside the cage, and is what you measure temperatures with. You use the thermometer to set the thermostat

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So the herpstat link you sent me has a probe on it that you put between the tank and the terrarium? I saw outlets on the thermostat, is one of those for the UTH itself and one to power it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

So the herpstat link you sent me has a probe on it that you put between the tank and the terrarium? I saw outlets on the thermostat, is one of those for the UTH itself and one to power it?

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Exactly! If you we're to get a Herpstat 4 for example, this has four power outlets in the back that is accompanied by four probes, one for each of the 4 heat sources that you can possibly plug into it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

So the herpstat link you sent me has a probe on it that you put between the tank and the terrarium? I saw outlets on the thermostat, is one of those for the UTH itself and one to power it?

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Yes, that is correct

it looks like this:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original



http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...4.gif~original

The Green is where the UTH plugs in.

The Red is where the herpstats included power cord plugs in.

The Purple is where the herpstats probe plugs in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

Exactly! If you we're to get a Herpstat 4 for example, this has four power outlets in the back that is accompanied by four probes, one for each of the 4 heat sources that you can possibly plug into it.

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Oh alright! I think I finally got a grasp on this. These definitely seem like something I need to purchase to get the best possible care for my python!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Yes, that is correct

it looks like this:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original



http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...4.gif~original

The Green is where the UTH plugs in.

The Red is where the herpstats included power cord plugs in.

The Purple is where the herpstats probe plugs in.

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Thank you guys, literally every possible question I had has been answered. Everyone on this is such a huge help, and I learned a lot from this!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Yes, that is correct

it looks like this:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original



http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...4.gif~original

The Green is where the UTH plugs in.

The Red is where the herpstats included power cord plugs in.

The Purple is where the herpstats probe plugs in.

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Wait I lied, one more question, what is your set-up for the UTH on the tank. I know that the UTH adheres to the bottom of the tank, but there is obviously a risk of burning the surface it sits on, do you have your tank elevated somehow to give a little space between the surface the tank sits on, and the UTH?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EntertheWutang

Wait I lied, one more question, what is your set-up for the UTH on the tank. I know that the UTH adheres to the bottom of the tank, but there is obviously a risk of burning the surface it sits on, do you have your tank elevated somehow to give a little space between the surface the tank sits on, and the UTH?

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The thermostat should keep it from getting hot enough to matter. At most the UTH will hit 105 F, but in most cases the Thermostat should be set in the mid to upper 90's nowhere near hot enough to cause any problems (we humans are 98.6 F after all) Even at 130F most surfaces will be fine. I wouldn't set it on carpet, but most other surfaces should be fine.

Here is how I have mine set up:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...9.jpg~original

don't mind that it's centered on the cage, The cages I use actually have a divider running down the middle so I put the UTH in the middle so it can heat both sides at the same time. You can see the outline of where the UTH would go if it wasn't using the divider. You can also see a slot cut into the bottom of the cage for the thermostat probe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

The thermostat should keep it from getting hot enough to matter. At most the UTH will hit 105 F, but in most cases the Thermostat should be set in the mid to upper 90's nowhere near hot enough to cause any problems (we humans are 98.6 F after all) Even at 130F most surfaces will be fine. I wouldn't set it on carpet, but most other surfaces should be fine.

Here is how I have mine set up:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...9.jpg~original

don't mind that it's centered on the cage, The cages I use actually have a divider running down the middle so I put the UTH in the middle so it can heat both sides at the same time. You can see the outline of where the UTH would go if it wasn't using the divider. You can also see a slot cut into the bottom of the cage for the thermostat probe.

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Oh okay! Makes sense haha, thank you so much. This has helped tremendously!