Genetics question

Sorry if there was a thread posted on this already but I couldn't see one related to this question in particular. If I were to breed let's say a Clown Male or Female to a Lesser Male or Female. What would the resulting babies be? Would all the Lessers in that clutch be het for clown? I tried using a punett square but I couldn't figure it out entirely. Makes me wish I payed attention to all that stuff in High School about mating trees and what not. :(

Far as I know half would be lessers half would be normal het for clown I'm sure someone will direct you yo worldofballpythons.com's genetic wizard but this is much simpler ;) if you haven't used it yet give it a whirl I spend hours just playing with that thing planning hypothetical breeding scenarios

Whole clutch would be het for clown though sorry if that was unclear

one way to calculate it in your head is to look at the genes individually, one by one.


- clown bred to normal produces what? that will be a uniform clutch of 100% het clowns.
- and lesser bred to normal? half will be lessers, the other half will be normals.
put both together. one half will be lesser het clown, the other half will be het clown.

a more complicated example: super pastel to queen bee (lesser pastel spider).

- Super pastel to pastel. Because of the super, all will at least have pastel in them. add another pastel, and half will be pastel, the other half super pastel.
- add spider. one copy present, so half will get spider, the other half wont.
- same with lesser: one half gets it, the other doesnt.

now put it together: 50% pastel and 50% super pastel, and half get the spider gene. that results in 25% pastel, 25% super pastel, 25% pastel spider, 25% super pastel spider. Half of that get the lesser gene, so you get: 12,5% pastel, 12,5% super pastel, 12,5% pastel spider, 12,5% super pastel spider, 12,5% pastel lesser, 12,5% super pastel lesser, 12,5% pastel spider lesser, 12,5% super pastel spider lesser. Basically to add a gene that half the offspring will get, you split all the results you currently have into two halves, and one of these halves gets the gene.

an example with one more complication: Pewter (cinnamon pastel) to pastel.

- pastel to pastel gives you 25% normals, 50% pastel, and 25% super pastel.
- half of them get cinnamon
both combined: 12,5% normals, 25% pastel, 12,5% super pastel, 12,5% cinnamon, 25% pastel cinnamon, 12,5% super pastel cinnamon.


punnet squares work, but have their own complications. You need to work out all possible contributions of the male, and put them on one axis. then you need to work out all possible contributions of the female, put it on the other axis. Then you draw the square, fill all the boxes, and then you need to pull the data out of the square. Often its not even a square, depending on pairings you could get an 8x4 box with 32 little boxes inside.

Pythonfriend is using a branching system instead of a Punnett square. Different method, same results.

For a comparison of Punnett square and branching system, see post 67 in http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...enetics-7.html

say Lesser = Llcc and Clown = llCC, list all possible scenarios for each parent, which would be Lc and lc for the lesser and lC for the clown.

	Lc	lc
lC	LlCc (Lesser het Clown)	llCc (Het Clown)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

say Lesser = Llcc and Clown = llCC, list all possible scenarios for each parent, which would be Lc and lc for the lesser and lC for the clown.

	Lc	lc
lC	LlCc (Lesser het Clown)	llCc (Het Clown)

---

Now you make me want to try it out with a more complicated example :) lets say pewter to lesser pastel...

Pewter: PpCcll, possible offspring: PCl, pcl, pCl, Pcl. Lesser pastel: PpccLl, possible offspring: PcL, pcl, Pcl, pcL

	PCl	pcl	pCl	Pcl
PcL	PPCcLl (lesser sterling) 6,25%	PpccLl (lesser pastel) 12,5%	PpCcLl (lesser pewter) 12,5%	PPccLl (super pastel lesser)6,25%
pcl	PpCcll (pewter) 12,5%	ppccll (normal) 6,25%	ppCcll (cinnamon) 6,25%	Ppccll (pastel) 12,5%
Pcl	PPCcll (sterling) 6,25%	Ppccll (pastel) second hit	PpCcll (pewter) second hit	PPccll (super pastel) 6,25%
pcL	PpCcLl (lesser pewter)second hit	ppccLl (lesser) 6,25%	ppCcLl (lesser cinnamon) 6,25%	PpccLl (lesser pastel) second hit

umm, yeah, it works....But i should have arranged it differently, so that the normal is in the lower right corner. I guess the "branching method" works better for me, i didnt even know it had a name :). Instead of making a box, you just manipulate one string of information, and you dont need to add the morphs together that you can get in different ways in the square.

Holy crap! My head is spinning! Ever understand something w/out knowing exactly why? Some real brains here on this forum bravo guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

Now you make me want to try it out with a more complicated example :) lets say pewter to lesser pastel...

Pewter: PpCcll, possible offspring: PCl, pcl, pCl, Pcl. Lesser pastel: PpccLl, possible offspring: PcL, pcl, Pcl, pcL

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Branching system:
Pp x Pp --> 1/4 PP, 2/4 Pp, 1/4 pp
Cc x cc --> 1/2 Cc, 1/2 cc
ll x Ll --> 1/2 Ll, 1/2 ll

________________1/2 Ll = 1/16 PP Cc Ll
________1/2 Cc <
________________1/2 ll = 1/16 PP Cc ll
1/4 PP <
________________1/2 Ll = 1/16 PP cc Ll
________1/2 cc <
________________1/2 ll = 1/16 PP cc ll

________________1/2 Ll = 2/16 Pp Cc Ll
________1/2 Cc <
________________1/2 ll = 2/16 Pp Cc ll
2/4 Pp <
________________1/2 Ll = 2/16 Pp cc Ll
________1/2 cc <
________________1/2 ll = 2/16 Pp cc ll

________________1/2 Ll = 1/16 pp Cc Ll
________1/2 Cc <
________________1/2 ll = 1/16 pp Cc ll
1/4 pp <
________________1/2 Ll = 1/16 pp cc Ll
________1/2 cc <
________________1/2 ll = 1/16 pp cc ll

Multiply fractions while going out each branch.
1/16 = 6.25%
2/16 = 12.5%
This is easier to do with pencil and paper than with a text editor.

:rolleye2:

i usually use the branching system in my mind, when figuring out questions that arise on my forum.

For pewter to lesser pastel, i go like:

ok, so, disregarding the other genes and focusing on pastel its 25% normal, 50% pastel, 25% super pastel. Then i split it and put in cinnamon. 12,5% normals 12,5% cinnamons 25% pastel 25% pewter 12,5% super pastel 12,5% super pastel cinnamon (sterling).

That is about as far as i can go using my mind alone, by just thinking hard, and it came about through practise. Thats what i pull out of my nose on short notice, so to say. I dont need pen and paper so far, i think hard and spit out the answer.

one gene missing, lesser. i take the string, which is: "12,5% normals 12,5% cinnamons 25% pastel 25% pewter 12,5% super pastel 12,5% super pastel cinnamon (sterling)" and manipulate it further, do one more split.

and i go from that to 6,25% normals 6,25% lessers 6,25% cinnamon 6,25% cinnamon lesser, 12,5% pastel, 12,5% lesser pastel, 12,5% pewter, 12,5% lesser pewter, 6,25% lesser super pastel, 6,25% super pastel, 6,25% super pastel cinnamon (sterling), 6,25% lesser super pastel cinnamon (lesser sterling).


no matter which method you use, the results are the same! This is quite important. You can use whatever method you like, if it works, it will give the same results other methods give. If you calculate one way and your results fail to match the results derived by any other method, your calculation is wrong.

Also note that in my method, and also the "Branching system" method, it does not matter with which gene you start, if you do it all correctly the result will be the same. In between it may look much different depending on how you arrange it and with which gene you start first, but the end result is the same in any case, and is similar to the end result of the punnett square.