Proposed Ball Python Feeding Chart

Hello fellow ball python lovers,

I am a scientist and I am tired of people giving me the rule of thumb that I should feed my ball python prey approximately as large as it's girth. Feeding is the most expensive part of keeping snakes. Thus it is important to know what to buy, and how many to buy in order to come up with a good budget for feeding. One person that proposed a feeding chart (http://medusa-corns.webs.com/feedingchart.htm) for corn snakes is Dave (Roy Munson). Kudos to Dave for not being like the rest of the sheep. This is great for corn snakes, but how about ball pythons? The people of Ball Pythonz have come up with a nice feeding chart for ball pythons (http://www.ballpythonz.net/feeding.html). Funny enough, I was actually going to propose a ball python feeding chart according to my research that I have done, and while writing this post I came across the feeding chart from the people at Ball Pythonz. Needless to say, the chart the Ball Pythonz people came up with is extremely close to what I was going to propose and I will go over my rational for why I think their feeding chart is mostly correct. I will also add an addition to their chart and specify the weight ranges in grams I think should be appropriate for the common names which they have specified. ​Although I am a scientist, this post is going to be based off opinion and speculation. There is no evidence that any formulas specified here are correct, and nor will I be providing any. Therefore, I present to you Johnny Pittmans Ball Python Feeding Chart:

First off, here is what the people of ball pythonz proposed:

Weight of python (grams)	Size to Feed (grams)	Common Name
Hatchling-99	9-12	Hopper Mice
100-199	13-20	Weanling Mice (or small rat pups)
200-349	21-30	Rat Pups
350-499	31-45	Rat Weanling
500-799	46-79	Small Rat
800-1499	80-149	Medium Rat
1499-2499	150-265	Large Rat
2499+	266-360	Extra Large Rat

For my feeding chart I read various forum users, and yahoo answers users input on what they fed their adult ball pythons, and ball pythons that were a year old. I looked at the average weights of the plotted ball pythons of the 15 subjects of The Dragons Den (http://www.thereddragonsden.com/avgweight.htm) and there were some interesting observations I was able to make. For the first 3-4 months it seems baby ball pythons grow about 200 grams, for the next 4-5 months they grow about another 200 grams, and for the next 4-5 months after that they grow about 200 grams. The babies came to a stop around month 13 or so where it takes them about 10 months to grow another 200 grams, then again they grow 200 grams in 500 months. This is a pretty good rate of growth. My feeding chart should be able to help give a rough estimate of how long a ball python will need to feed on each different rodent size.

Given the suggestions by Ball Pythonz feeding chart, what I currently feed my snakes, and user responses of what they feed their ball pythons, I came up with a better suggestion than the rule of thumb about feeding a snake about the size of its girth. My new rule of thumb (according to my chart) is that you should feed your snake about 10 times less than the snakes weight (in grams). For example, if you snake weighs 350 grams, you would feed him a (350/10 = 35) 35 gram critter. This would be a Rat weanling. This seems to be right on par with what I have found users are feeding their ball pythons, and what I feed my ball pythons. The weight of the ball python being proportional to the weight of the critter by a factor of 10 seems like it would make sense given that the girth of every rodent size specified matches up with my snakes compared to their weight. There is probably a mathematical explanation of why a 10 gram rat is about as girthy as a 100 gram snake, but I am too tired at the moment writing this post to try to come up with that formula.

Anyway, this is my opinion of what a ball python should be fed based off this chart. I am enthusiastic about it and hope this feeding plan will work out well for my baby ball pythons. If it does, I guess I was right, if it doesn't well I guess I'll have a bunch of frozen critters to feed my boa or corn snake. Please critique this, share it, or tell me what you think because I would like to add to this chart.

Not to be rude but I feel this is common knowledge, or easily learned knowledge. Many people do the "10-15% rule" for ball pythons (until a certain weight)

I assume this chart is base on you experience? So how many BP have you fed base on this chart? Especially adults fed xl rats?

I guess I am one of those sheep :rolleyes: I eyeball it it and never feed anything bigger than a 120 grams even to the largest of my BP.

Based on your chart and my experience I can guaranty that those fed xl rats will fast, personally I prefer animals that eat with consistency.

There are many ways to do a lot of thing and if this is what you want to do it´s fine whatever works for you (does that mean that´s what they SHOULD be fed???).

It´s lot more food then they really need not to mention the risks associated with feeding an oversized prey.

I would personally NEVER offer anything larger than a medium rat live to any of my snakes and I'd only offer mediums to the LARGE, AGGRESSIVE feeders and watch closely. Far too much risk of injury. They don't need that much either.

Um... I just eyeball it lol. I don't have any sort of mathematical formula for size.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I assume this chart is base on you experience? So how many BP have you fed base on this chart? Especially adults fed xl rats?

I guess I am one of those sheep :rolleyes: I eyeball it it and never feed anything bigger than a 120 grams even to the largest of my BP.

Based on your chart and my experience I can guaranty that those fed xl rats will fast, personally I prefer animals that eat with consistency.

There are many ways to do a lot of thing and if this is what you want to do it´s fine whatever works for you (does that mean that´s what they SHOULD be fed???).

It´s lot more food then they really need not to mention the risks associated with feeding an oversized prey.

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Not to derail the thread, but do you feed multiple 120 gram rats for, say, a 2500g ball? Or just a single small meal? Just trying to plan out my future feedings, I don't have anyone over 1000 yet. Thanks!

I personally usually feed my huge females 1 to 2 small rats a week. I'll feed a bit heavier just after laying and at the beginning of breeding season. Rarely do I ever offer more than 2 small rats. They aren't very active snakes, they don't need to consume a lot of food.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Not to derail the thread, but do you feed multiple 120 gram rats for, say, a 2500g ball? Or just a single small meal? Just trying to plan out my future feedings, I don't have anyone over 1000 yet. Thanks!

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I feed a single prey once a week and have females pushing 4000 grams. Now things change a little around September when I feed females that are ready to breed every 5 days instead of every 7 but it´s only to bulk them up before breeding, knowing that the will soon be fasting.

Males kept being fed once a week and as for them they never get anything larger then a small rat, I even skip meal or feed smaller prey during breeding season to keep them lean and trim ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I feed a single prey once a week and have females pushing 4000 grams. Now things change a little around September when I feed females that are ready to breed every 5 days instead of every 7 but it´s only to bulk them up before breeding, knowing that the will soon be fasting.

Males kept being fed once a week and as for them they never get anything larger then a small rat, I even skip meal or feed smaller prey during breeding season to keep them lean and trim ;)

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Wow so about 3% of body weight for the most part, at least for non breeding adults? Interesting. And you don't have any problem feeders on this regiment? I know it's been said many times over that we generally tend to overfeed, and this definitely makes me reconsider the 10-15% I've always heard tossed around.

Not taking sides here (way too little experience) but "experience" must in some cases give way to scientific data. That's why we don't practice blood letting in human medicine, and realize that dinner shouldn't really be the biggest meal of the day.

Im not saying that y'all's experience is wrong, nor am I siding with the science guy. Just beware of using "experience" to counteract good science.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Wow so about 3% of body weight for the most part, at least for non breeding adults? Interesting. And you don't have any problem feeders on this regiment? I know it's been said many times over that we generally tend to overfeed, and this definitely makes me reconsider the 10-15% I've always heard tossed around.

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I am sure that hatching probably get something along the line of 10% to 15%, but I wouldn't know since at that age I eyeball everything, what I know is that giving an adult 10% of their body weight is far from necessary.

Hatchlings are voracious and growing however as they grow and become adults their metabolism slows down.

Now can you feed xl rats? Sure you can, most of it will turn into waste, the animal will be sluggish for days and likely to refuse food for the next but few feedings, but it can be done, however it is not necessary, risky and far from being "that´s what they should be fed".

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Wow so about 3% of body weight for the most part, at least for non breeding adults? Interesting. And you don't have any problem feeders on this regiment? I know it's been said many times over that we generally tend to overfeed, and this definitely makes me reconsider the 10-15% I've always heard tossed around.

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I'm with Deborah and Slaw. The 10-15% "rule" applies to hatchlings and juveniles up to ~500g. I feed anything over that weight a small or medium (less likely) rat, once a week. Since I feed F/T, I sometimes have uneaten prey in the first round and then a big female will get seconds. My girls regain their prelay weights with no issue and have had zero issues with laying healthy eggs, and my males go off feed during a small part of breeding season but don't lose any weight. As the OP stated, his opinion was stated, not scientific fact.

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Not taking sides here (way too little experience) but "experience" must in some cases give way to scientific data. That's why we don't practice blood letting in human medicine, and realize that dinner shouldn't really be the biggest meal of the day.

Im not saying that y'all's experience is wrong, nor am I siding with the science guy. Just beware of using "experience" to counteract good science.

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Problem here is that no scientific evidence was provided. Who's got the time to weigh rats anyway?

First our responses were cliche and now those who eyeball their feeders are sheep. If you took some time to research on the forum you would have found most of us feed within a percentage of the snakes weight.

Eyeballing your feeders, while not scientific, is still very acceptable. After all snakes in the wild don't measure their food. And feeding wild mice you can not be that picky about the feeders size.

My personal practice is to order feeders in the size I need and will need. Now within those some will be on the heavy end and some lite. At that point I do not weigh the feeders and only eyeball them when I decide who gets what. I guess I follow both guidelines.

Thank you all for your feedback on my feeding chart. I value your experience and feedback in what you feed your ball pythons. I have watched and talked with people that have an inventory of 30k+ snakes, read several posts on this forum looking specifically for feeding charts, googled countless hours for how much to feed ball pythons, read mainstream pet care guides just to take those into consideration (from big names like Petco and Petsmart) and have never heard of the 10-15% rule. I do not believe this 10-15% to be common knowledge. I am sorry for trying to coin this rule if someone else has already coined it. As far as I know though no one has because I've never seen it before. If you would like to point me to a person that has coined this then I'd be happy to give them credit for it, but if I haven't come across it in my literature search for what to feed ball pythons than it is less common than you think. I merely wished to share my experience of what I think a ball python should be fed given the data that I looked at and get feedback from people because what I got from google and everyone else was just the same line "don't feed more than their girth". There are countless sources of information that pass this rule of thumb along, but practically none that pass the 10-15% rule of thumb along. I'm not a "snake expert" and nor am I claiming to be, that is why I bolded in my post that this was my opinion and was not based off any evidence. Us home snake raisers need something more to go on though other than "oh you should feed it about its size in girth, but not more", because I'm not paying 13 dollars for a medium rat at a local pet shop when I know I should be buying a fixed supply of medium rats when my ball python is about 1 year old at 2 dollars a rat. I wouldn't know at what time period to get the medium rats or how many of them to get if I didn't know the information on this feeding chart. This is why I say that sheep keep saying "you should feed it a about it's size in girth, but not more". Currently this is the herd mentality and if you all want to do this and buy your food supply on the fly and waste money than you go ahead and do that :). I however, cannot afford that.

Another thing that I didn't specify is frequency of feeding. I believe food should be offered about every 7 days. There is even less knowledge out there of how much feeding a snake is "too much". I've not seen one study on what is "over eating" to a snake. As at least one of you has said, snakes just eat in the wild whenever they feel like it. I can tell you though that according to "The Longevity Diet" (the people that made mice that live to 3 months max live 6 months max, doubling their life span) the theory goes if one restricts the diet of any animal by a certain % and only gives the animal the nourishment they need and not anything excessive, than the animal can live a much longer, happier, healthier life. Happier animals will probably bite less ;).

Anyway, I made this thread to present a feeding chart for ball pythons because I couldn't find one initially. As I said I found one while I was writing the post so I included it in there. I think my feeding chart presents some good information for newbies and I will probably refine it further given information posted to this thread. I would like this discussion to keep going if anyone has any other opinions that are based off of some good reasoning as to how much to feed to ball pythons and when to feed it. Thank you again for your input and time.

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Originally Posted by GamerAgeDad

I have watched and talked with people that have an inventory of 30k+ snakes, read several posts on this forum looking specifically for feeding charts, googled countless hours for how much to feed ball pythons, read mainstream pet care guides just to take those into consideration (from big names like Petco and Petsmart) and have never heard of the 10-15% rule.

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There are hundreds of posts on this site alone about prey size. Here are some things I've learned from this site about feeding from reading posts written by the herd:


Feed 20-40g (hopper - rat hopper) food until the snake is 500ish grams.

Feed 60 - 80g (small rat) food until the snake is 1000ish grams.

Feed 100-150g food indefinitely. That's the size of an adult african soft fur rat - one of the main prey items for BPs naturally. Those who feed above that are outliers.

If you do the math there, everything lands between 10 - 20% of the body weight and caps out around 120-150g. Those rats are also all about as thick as the snake of corresponding size.



Had you posted "how big should my snake's food be" you'd probably get 50% responses 'as big as the snake is thick' and 50% responses saying something similar to what I have said above with gram weights. You'd then get someone linking you this chart like they do in every one of the hundreds of threads on feeding because people are helpful here and know that the logical follow-up is 'I don't have a scale, how do I know how big a 60 - 80g rat is':

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...mousesizes.jpg


It's kind of hypocritical to preach about science and then not actually do your homework. Nobody with vast experience in ball pythons nor any website with 2 cents worth of knowledge would ever tell you to feed a jumbo rat to a BP.
You called everyone sheep and ranting about the herd and then posted a bunch of opinion as the new and improved scientific approach to feeding ball pythons. Measure those rats girth and associate it with the girth of the snakes you recommended. I bet they're about as big around as the snake. Take the weights and draw some percentages. I bet they're about 10 - 20%.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

There are hundreds of posts on this site alone about prey size. Here are some things I've learned from this site about feeding from reading posts written by the herd:


Feed 20-40g (hopper - rat hopper) food until the snake is 500ish grams.

Feed 60 - 80g (small rat) food until the snake is 1000ish grams.

Feed 100-150g food indefinitely. That's the size of an adult african soft fur rat - one of the main prey items for BPs naturally. Those who feed above that are outliers.

If you do the math there, everything lands between 10 - 20% of the body weight and caps out around 120-150g. Those rats are also all about as thick as the snake of corresponding size.



Had you posted "how big should my snake's food be" you'd probably get 50% responses 'as big as the snake is thick' and 50% responses saying something similar to what I have said above with gram weights. You'd then get someone linking you this chart like they do in every one of the hundreds of threads on feeding because people are helpful here and know that the logical follow-up is 'I don't have a scale, how do I know how big a 60 - 80g rat is':

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...mousesizes.jpg


It's kind of hypocritical to preach about science and then not actually do your homework. Nobody with vast experience in ball pythons nor any website with 2 cents worth of knowledge would ever tell you to feed a jumbo rat to a BP.
You called everyone sheep and ranting about the herd and then posted a bunch of opinion as the new and improved scientific approach to feeding ball pythons. Measure those rats girth and associate it with the girth of the snakes you recommended. I bet they're about as big around as the snake. Take the weights and draw some percentages. I bet they're about 10 - 20%.

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What I am saying is people posting "You should feed about the girth, but no greater" is that it is not very helpful. This does not answer my questions about what kind of critters to buy for my snakes and how many critters I will need to feed them when they are X amount of time old. The chart your provided does not show what to feed snakes. The chart you posted is a chart I have seen before and it is for the growth of critters.

Again, maybe you missed it, but I put it in bold on my main post that this is not science and it does not have any evidence to it. I was quite clear about this so by no means am I preaching about science. The reason I pointed out that I am a scientist is to say it bugs me that no one has done any research on snake diets and what to feed. Thus I think what I have presented is a great start and I will be using it to feed my snakes.

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Not taking sides here (way too little experience) but "experience" must in some cases give way to scientific data. That's why we don't practice blood letting in human medicine, and realize that dinner shouldn't really be the biggest meal of the day.

Im not saying that y'all's experience is wrong, nor am I siding with the science guy. Just beware of using "experience" to counteract good science.

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I am a scientist, a biologist to be precise. And I see a major flaw in the OP's chart:
OP is assuming all sizes and all developmental stages require the same nutritional intake.

This is in fact false. Nutritional requirements change as an animal grows and develops. This is true of all animals.

In a nut shell, and keeping it simple in terms of "calories" only (ignoring all other nutrients, though other nutrients are important too):
All living animals require a certain base level of calories to maintain basic bodily functions. These bodily functions include respiration, blood circulation, and digestion, and in the case of warm-blooded animals also includes calories required to produce heat (some of which occurs as a result of activity and basic bodily functions).

Growing animals have a higher caloric requirement. In order to sustain basic bodily functions as well as growth, more calories must be consumed. Therefore a growing animal must consume a greater number of calories proportional to its size than a full grown animal. This is where the OP's chart falls apart. The OP is assuming the same 10% of body weight in food is required by a hatchling as a full grown 2000+g adult. This is not true.

Females who are reproducing also have a higher caloric requirement, though not necessarily as high as a young growing animal. Females produce offspring, some of their calories are allotted to this creation of new bodies (whether those bodies be in the form of eggs or in the form of live young gestated inside the mother's body). In order to meet this caloric demand and still maintain her basic bodily functions, a female must consume a slightly higher calorie value than a non-reproducing female. Males are excluded from this and treated as "non-reproducing females" because the production of sperm takes considerably less energy than the production of eggs or young. (For mammals, caloric requirement remains high post-partem during the lactation period. Lactation requires more calories to maintain.)

So what does all of this mean?
This means, you can follow the "10% rule" (or rather, 10-15% that is generally recommended) as long as the animal is growing. However once growth slows or ceases, it will be necessary to pull back and feed less than 10-15% of the animal's body weight. How much exactly will depend on a few factors, such as the animal's overall size and reproductive status. In order to determine a hard number, there needs to be well planned and executed study. I don't know if any one has done this, but in a less-stringent format experienced hobbyists HAVE figured it out. That's where experience is important. Science and experience need not be opposites nor combatants, but can work together. The reason we no longer practice blood letting or make dinner the biggest meal of the day (actually some people still do) is not strictly because science has told us it doesn't work, but also because experience has told us it doesn't work. In fact, often the experience (Why isn't this working?) prompts the scientific study that tells us the why.

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Originally Posted by sorraia

I am a scientist, a biologist to be precise. And I see a major flaw in the OP's chart:
OP is assuming all sizes and all developmental stages require the same nutritional intake.

This is in fact false. Nutritional requirements change as an animal grows and develops. This is true of all animals.

In a nut shell, and keeping it simple in terms of "calories" only (ignoring all other nutrients, though other nutrients are important too):
All living animals require a certain base level of calories to maintain basic bodily functions. These bodily functions include respiration, blood circulation, and digestion, and in the case of warm-blooded animals also includes calories required to produce heat (some of which occurs as a result of activity and basic bodily functions).

Growing animals have a higher caloric requirement. In order to sustain basic bodily functions as well as growth, more calories must be consumed. Therefore a growing animal must consume a greater number of calories proportional to its size than a full grown animal. This is where the OP's chart falls apart. The OP is assuming the same 10% of body weight in food is required by a hatchling as a full grown 2000+g adult. This is not true.

Females who are reproducing also have a higher caloric requirement, though not necessarily as high as a young growing animal. Females produce offspring, some of their calories are allotted to this creation of new bodies (whether those bodies be in the form of eggs or in the form of live young gestated inside the mother's body). In order to meet this caloric demand and still maintain her basic bodily functions, a female must consume a slightly higher calorie value than a non-reproducing female. Males are excluded from this and treated as "non-reproducing females" because the production of sperm takes considerably less energy than the production of eggs or young. (For mammals, caloric requirement remains high post-partem during the lactation period. Lactation requires more calories to maintain.)

So what does all of this mean?
This means, you can follow the "10% rule" (or rather, 10-15% that is generally recommended) as long as the animal is growing. However once growth slows or ceases, it will be necessary to pull back and feed less than 10-15% of the animal's body weight. How much exactly will depend on a few factors, such as the animal's overall size and reproductive status. In order to determine a hard number, there needs to be well planned and executed study. I don't know if any one has done this, but in a less-stringent format experienced hobbyists HAVE figured it out. That's where experience is important. Science and experience need not be opposites nor combatants, but can work together. The reason we no longer practice blood letting or make dinner the biggest meal of the day (actually some people still do) is not strictly because science has told us it doesn't work, but also because experience has told us it doesn't work. In fact, often the experience (Why isn't this working?) prompts the scientific study that tells us the why.

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I completely agree with you. My chart certainly does neglect the fact that some animals will grow at different rates than others. What my chart does look at is an average. No one can plan anything though not having any idea what size critters their snake will eat (and the standard deviation of a ball pythons weight is not extremely far from the average), so at least it is good to have a chart to know about what to buy for them. I did not make any points about females requiring more nutritional value as Dave Munson's chart does intentionally because this chart does not account for extenuating circumstances. It is merely meant to be a simple feeding chart because I could not find one better. Again I stress, if anyone knows of a better feeding chart with more information please provide it. That is the whole point of this discussion. Even the care sheet on these forums here still only lists the "feed your snake about it's girth, but no more than that" rule of thumb and says this issue is still up for debate. Well I am debating that what I have presented here is additional guidance to that rule of thumb and that it does help people that need to plan ahead for what they are going to feed. There are a lot of things to the growing process of ball pythons that don't make much sense to me. For example, I fed my female a 19 gram mouse the other week and when I weighed her this week she was over 25 grams larger. Where she is getting that extra weight from, I have no idea. Again though, I agree with everything you said and it is great input on the topic. Thank you for your contribution!

Surely if, when regarding larger animals, feeding under the 10-15% "guideline" people would start seeing problems with the animal from lack of nutrients? Becoming lethargic, eggs not being developed enough etc etc.

I think ball pythons are already pretty lethargic lol but I really don't think they would grow as large as they do if they were not being properly nourished. People grow tiny hatchlings into 4kg monsters on 1 small a week.

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Originally Posted by GamerAgeDad

For example, I fed my female a 19 gram mouse the other week and when I weighed her this week she was over 25 grams larger. Where she is getting that extra weight from, I have no idea. Again though, I agree with everything you said and it is great input on the topic. Thank you for your contribution!

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Water weight unless you've been reading the no water bowl thread. :P

LMAO Im sorry but Im gonna be "that guy" and say that the OP's chart is an absolute joke. Now Im military, and in my world, the OP has done what we call... "nuking it." You sir, have put wayyyyyyy to much thought into something that does not need to be "scientific"... AT ALL. When you bought your first dog, or cat, or whatever it may have been. We are gonna say its a dog in this example. I can almost bet that you didn't go google "dog feeding chart" just so you felt safe enough to know how much to feed your dog. Its just "common sense" to "eye ball" how much to feed your dog to keep him fit but not let him get over weight. Same rules apply to ball pythons. Or any animal at that. You did give me a great laugh though. Feeding a jumbo rat to a ball python... haha... that was good.

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Originally Posted by Southern_Breeder

LMAO Im sorry but Im gonna be "that guy" and say that the OP's chart is an absolute joke. Now Im military, and in my world, the OP has done what we call... "nuking it." You sir, have put wayyyyyyy to much thought into something that does not need to be "scientific"... AT ALL. When you bought your first dog, or cat, or whatever it may have been. We are gonna say its a dog in this example. I can almost bet that you didn't go google "dog feeding chart" just so you felt safe enough to know how much to feed your dog. Its just "common sense" to "eye ball" how much to feed your dog to keep him fit but not let him get over weight. Same rules apply to ball pythons. Or any animal at that. You did give me a great laugh though. Feeding a jumbo rat to a ball python... haha... that was good.

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x2 i'm not military but i agree haha

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Originally Posted by Southern_Breeder

LMAO Im sorry but Im gonna be "that guy" and say that the OP's chart is an absolute joke. Now Im military, and in my world, the OP has done what we call... "nuking it." You sir, have put wayyyyyyy to much thought into something that does not need to be "scientific"... AT ALL. When you bought your first dog, or cat, or whatever it may have been. We are gonna say its a dog in this example. I can almost bet that you didn't go google "dog feeding chart" just so you felt safe enough to know how much to feed your dog. Its just "common sense" to "eye ball" how much to feed your dog to keep him fit but not let him get over weight. Same rules apply to ball pythons. Or any animal at that. You did give me a great laugh though. Feeding a jumbo rat to a ball python... haha... that was good.

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Me x3,

Maybe it's just me but lately I see the trend of people putting way to much thought into simple things and expect an answer-all solution to be posted, it's good to ask questions and share answers thats how ideas and information are spread but the truth is most of the answers to questions posted should be used as a guide or a base starting point for YOU to go off of and tweak and draw your own conclusions from thus building your own experience/knowledge. There are far too many variables to take into account for there to be a cookie cutter answer.

Personally, I eyeball my feeders because I don't have time to weigh each one and I am not conducting a controlled study where each snake at Xsize needs a feeder at Xweight and I have never had a snake shrink in size, some have grown slower then others but that's more along the lines of genetics.

One thing to remember for anyone who thinks "eyeballing" a feeder's size isn't precise - with reasonable experience, most breeders/hobbyists/owners can tell you within ~10% variance what a rodent weighs, just by "eyeballing". THIS is where experience IS science (or simple math, or whatever you want to call it). No one is going to search through feeders to find one that is 43.7g because that is EXACTLY what the "correct" size is for their snake; that's why the size classifications have ranges.

Yea, what anna said.^

It's sorta like a 6th sense. I'm psycho. I mean psychic.

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Originally Posted by Southern_Breeder

LMAO Im sorry but Im gonna be "that guy" and say that the OP's chart is an absolute joke. Now Im military, and in my world, the OP has done what we call... "nuking it." You sir, have put wayyyyyyy to much thought into something that does not need to be "scientific"... AT ALL. When you bought your first dog, or cat, or whatever it may have been. We are gonna say its a dog in this example. I can almost bet that you didn't go google "dog feeding chart" just so you felt safe enough to know how much to feed your dog. Its just "common sense" to "eye ball" how much to feed your dog to keep him fit but not let him get over weight. Same rules apply to ball pythons. Or any animal at that. You did give me a great laugh though. Feeding a jumbo rat to a ball python... haha... that was good.

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Eyeballing it (making observations), and making adjustments (experimentation), and keeping feeding cards (collecting and analyzing data) are very scientific. Normal folk just tend not to think of what they're doing as science, when in reality they are performing the foundation of what science is all about.

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/1692/z4o4.png


/Thread.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

One thing to remember for anyone who thinks "eyeballing" a feeder's size isn't precise - with reasonable experience, most breeders/hobbyists/owners can tell you within ~10% variance what a rodent weighs, just by "eyeballing". THIS is where experience IS science (or simple math, or whatever you want to call it). No one is going to search through feeders to find one that is 43.7g because that is EXACTLY what the "correct" size is for their snake; that's why the size classifications have ranges.

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This.

I periodically weigh my snakes (once or twice a month) to keep tabs on their growth. For growing snakes I'll also make a quick calculation of how much they should eat based on the "10-15% rule". With my rats (growing my own) I'll pull out a baby or two from a litter and weigh them just to see where they are at in their growth. This has helped me learn how to eyeball their approximate weights. There will be variations, and it will also depend on when the rat last ate, if their bladder or rectum are full of waste products, how much water they drank and when, etc. A few grams in variation isn't a big deal. But by doing this I've learned to eyeball my rats and match up the right size to the right snake without weighing everyone every time. It works for me, and my snakes are thriving.

So the "rule of thumb" not feeding your snake anything larger around than the thickest part of its body....is this always true or should we start to weight in our feed?

The prey can be equal to or a little bigger than the widest part of the snakes girth.

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Not taking sides here (way too little experience) but "experience" must in some cases give way to scientific data. That's why we don't practice blood letting in human medicine, and realize that dinner shouldn't really be the biggest meal of the day.

Im not saying that y'all's experience is wrong, nor am I siding with the science guy. Just beware of using "experience" to counteract good science.

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I've noticed the problem around here is there are a lot of know it all's, they have snakes,they know what works for them and they think that's the only answer. Well it's problem around here if u disaree with them and that's not what a forum is about...anyway,back on topic...and good point about the meal thing,as breakfast is most important meal and dinner shouldn't be the largest.

as for the chart I'd say it's accurate and exactly how it's gone for me,so to the OP,good thread and very accurate chart. I don't use weight for my rodents and feed according to the snakes fattest part of his body..but his prey size and weight lines up with your chart.

great job

The OPs chart is all fine and dandy until you get to the sub-adult ball pythons and larger. That's where things are incorrect and skewed. I don't feed my adults any larger than a small rat either. And if I have them available, I *might* feed a 2000+g girl a medium at the very most. There's no way I would feed a large or jumbo to a Ball Python. That's way too much. You'd get obese animals at that point since they don't metabolize their prey at the same rate a growing hatching would. And its way too dangerous to feed a live large or jumbo anyway.

My Mojave girl for example, was given small rats when she hit 1000g. She gets fed 1 small rat once a week. She's currently almost 3000g at 2 years old.

As someone mentioned, African Soft Furs only get to small rat size at the very max. All the huge WC girls aren't eating jumbo rats. They're eating ASFs. And they're probably not feeding on a regular schedule as well. So they're able to gain a significant amount of weight and maintain a good body condition with eating small rat size equivalent prey.

I also eyeball my prey. I don't weigh it because I know I won't find a rat that matches my BP's weight exactly, nor do I really care. I'm just taking a wild guess, but I'm pretty sure snakes in the wild don't weigh their prey either.......
I just have a ball park figure/idea of what a certain size rat is and what my snakes can handle. And I offer something that I think falls into those certain perimeters.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

If you do the math there, everything lands between 10 - 20% of the body weight and caps out around 120-150g. Those rats are also all about as thick as the snake of corresponding size.


http://imageshack.us/a/img94/1692/z4o4.png

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This chart is more realistic and more accurately follows the growth-feeder size ratio of my own personal animals.


The dog feeding example is perfect.
I have two doberman pinschers. Both are full blooded sisters from different litters. The puppy is eating exactly twice as much as the adult sister. The pup is growing, thus needs more food to maintain that growth and healthy body condition. The adult sister does not get the same amount because that would be overfeeding. She would get fat if she ate the same amount the puppy is eating. Currently, the adult is maintaining the perfect body condition and isn't too fat or too skinny(maintaining a body condition to where we can see the last rib or two-no more or no less). We've had to adjust her food amount accordingly since she stopped growing in order to maintain that ideal body condition. We'll be cutting down the pup's food soon since her growth will be tapering in the near future.

Same concept applies to BPs or any animal really. If your snake is too fat, you're feeding too much. If its too skinny, you're not feeding enough. And from there, just adjust your prey accordingly. And those adjustments usually fall into the same range as the chart above.

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There are a lot of good posts here and I think a few of you have the right idea, there really is no set rule, especially with Ball Pythons. I have been keeping snakes for many years. I dont have alot of posts because I am a reader more than a writer.:) I currently keep mainly carpet pythons now but have 2 Ball pythons and have had others over the years. One of my boys eats small/medium rats every 14 days. any more and he will fast. The other will not eat rats, he will only eat mice and only one at a time, he is my PITA. HA HA So he gets 1 jumbo mouse a week. Sometimes he will eat 2 if I offer it but guess what, if he eats 2 he will not eat the following week. Both of these snakes are adult males and each one weighs within 100-200grams of the other, just shy of 1500 grams give or take. If I insisted on doing things the way the "book says", my snakes would fast and not eat on schedule. I have found Balls to be totally different than the Carpets and Boas I keep, they do things their way, owners wishes be damned. As long as husbandry and environmental aspects are maintained, they will eat when they want and what they want to our dismay. As long as they are a healthy snake and thriving it really doesnt matter whether they eat a 100 gram rat every week or two or a 40 gram mouse every week. Everyone needs to remember that these snakes sometimes fast for 6 months or more with no ill effects. When you factor that into the equation, as long as you are not feeding too small or too few prey items to an amimal that would continue to feed otherwise, you are not harming the animal. More times than not they are in control of how much they eat and they dont care about our rules. The Carpets and Boas on the other hand is a different story. Every one I have ever had would eat a Coke Can if I offered it. Sorry for the extended rant but with the fasting these guys often do and their individual personalities factored in, alot of the prey size rules for Ball Pythons are in my opinion irrelevant. JMHO

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Originally Posted by SnowShredder

Not to be rude but I feel this is common knowledge, or easily learned knowledge. Many people do the "10-15% rule" for ball pythons (until a certain weight)

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I hope I'm not coming off too abrasive, but "common knowledge" is relative. What may be "common" to one person, doesn't mean it is "common" for another.

YOU need to make sure the rodent will fit in the snake mid section i go by size and weight so far it worked well for my corn snake and its also working well for my ball python my corn snake is 3/4 girth i give him 3 large pinkies a week in 2 different days about 6 to 8g which its about right for my corn snake a fuzzy be the same weight but its to big for my corn yet shes about to shed so maybe she will grow another 1/4 inch and i can try a bigger mouse my ball python is 1-3/4 girth according to the charts she should be eating 20 to 28 g i was giving her 2 hoppers a week that was 24g there only 1 inch in width but my local pet shop just got some rat pups 1 3/4 in width and there 23 to 26 grams so now i can just feed her 1 instead of 2 i'm pretty new snake keeper only 4 months experience but tha'ts the way 'im doing it and there growing.

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Originally Posted by ballpythoncornsnake

YOU need to make sure the rodent will fit in the snake mid section i go by size and weight so far it worked well for my corn snake and its also working well for my ball python my corn snake is 3/4 girth i give him 3 large pinkies a week in 2 different days about 6 to 8g which its about right for my corn snake a fuzzy be the same weight but its to big for my corn yet shes about to shed so maybe she will grow another 1/4 inch and i can try a bigger mouse my ball python is 1-3/4 girth according to the charts she should be eating 20 to 28 g i was giving her 2 hoppers a week that was 24g there only 1 inch in width but my local pet shop just got some rat pups 1 3/4 in width and there 23 to 26 grams so now i can just feed her 1 instead of 2 i'm pretty new snake keeper only 4 months experience but tha'ts the way 'im doing it and there growing.

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This is a 5 years old thread with a chart that is inaccurate and should not be followed for proper feeding see the following https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines