Rats dying

Hi I just picked up a 1.4 group of rats with a litter from a friend of mine. Two days ago one pregnant female died after having one pink (which was eaten by the other rats). Then today when I got home I was checking everything and noticed one was breathing abnormal. It was the mother of the litter. I picked her up to examine her and it was like she had a something similar to "spider wobble". She then died in my hand about 20 seconds later and became stiff as a board. I had another female from a different rack die as well yesterday. They are eating mazuri and are housed in large racks. Any idea what is going on? And will the other females take over the pups? Thank you.

Sounds interesting....I'd suggest performing a necropsy (yourself if you know what you're looking for or having a vet do one), as those are pretty weird symptoms.

Your water system is working OK??
And how tall are your cages, and what is your airflow like??

The other females will only take over the pups if thu are currently lactating. If they aren't they still could, but I wouldn't count on it

I honestly wouldnt know what to look for. Im just using water bottles that are checked daily for now so they all have constant water. The others aren't lactating right now so I don't know what to do. I'm using kiln dried pine, I forgot to mention that. It was so weird how she just died instantly and then became so stiff.

She was also bleeding from the nose

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Originally Posted by mattj8501

She was also bleeding from the nose

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Were any of them breathing hard, sneezing or wheezing?

She was breathing hard. Like gasping for air. I just found the other two.

You guys think it a URI? I changed bedding and water and I might be picking up a nursing female from a local breeder. Should I separate the nursing mom and the litter from the other pair?

I would for sure separate the new mom, at least until you get this figured out

I hope it doesn't wipe out my whole colony. I'm gonna get a fan to help circulate the air tonight. The cage was pretty clean before I cleaned it and I don't think they were too crowded.

How long have you had the colony? Hopefully you can catch it in time. This might be worth taking a gander at: http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/...oplasmosis.php

I had something go through my colony when I first started that killed 13 of my 15 rats within two days. I spoke with someone that ran a rat rescue and she called it the 24 hour flu, I'm not sure if that's what it really was, but I assume she was right. I always quarantine new rats for several weeks before slowly introducing them to my established colony.

Sounds like they could have come with a URI. Quarantine new mama for sure. I had two male mice at one point and it took them within two days.

Alright. I hope he lets me have one. Idk how he is about selling his breeder females. I've been pulling open the door to the room that they're in and letting fresh air from outside in. If anymore die would it be safe to freeze them and feed them off later after they have been frozen solid? I went ahead and chucked the three that have already died cause I didn't know the cause but now it's looking like URI. And I didn't mention that one of them was from a different tub as the other two.

I have hundreds of rats that breed for me and I promise, trying to keep a rat completely healthy is near impossible. Every rat is born with a disease (I apologize for not remembering the name of it right now). If you notice, even since birth, every rat that is ever born will always "sneeze." You could keep a rat on paper towels and completely away from any dust or air born bacteria, and it will in fact, still "sneeze." That is due to the disease that every rat is born with. Now when you get into larger amounts of rats, you'll have multiple rats die every week. Its sad, and never fun to throw them away, but its the truth. You could have them in the perfect conditions, always fed, always watered, n they're always going to die. For no apparent reason 90% of the time. Its just the ways things are when it comes to rats.

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Originally Posted by Southern_Breeder

I have hundreds of rats that breed for me and I promise, trying to keep a rat completely healthy is near impossible. Every rat is born with a disease (I apologize for not remembering the name of it right now). If you notice, even since birth, every rat that is ever born will always "sneeze." You could keep a rat on paper towels and completely away from any dust or air born bacteria, and it will in fact, still "sneeze." That is due to the disease that every rat is born with. Now when you get into larger amounts of rats, you'll have multiple rats die every week. Its sad, and never fun to throw them away, but its the truth. You could have them in the perfect conditions, always fed, always watered, n they're always going to die. For no apparent reason 90% of the time. Its just the ways things are when it comes to rats.

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That makes me feel a little better. I've had rats for a few months but they haven't bred yet. Then when I got some that were actually breeding they keep dying on me. I'm just worried about her 11 pups. Could the stress of moving them cause these flare ups?

Boost the protein your rats consume. Rats will eat the babies if they don't have enough protein in there diet. Something as simple as a piece of meat could keep them healthier and the mother may have died from mil nutrition after birth. Takes a lot of energy to bit rat pups. Fruits, grains, rat pellets, and meat is what my rats get. More grains than anything. Fruit and meat twice a week.

More meat if they are pregnant or nursing. Other protein could suffice. Soy beans, nuts..

Sounds like a Respiratory infection. Overcrowded enclosures, poor ventilation, ammonia buildup, and even stress will cause it.
And always quarantine new rats.

Get some Tetracycline antibiotic. You can get it in powder packets from the fish section of any pet store. It runs about $12-13 and comes in packets of 10. I do believe every packet contains 500mg. The dosage is one packet per 16oz water bottle. Change water daily or every other day. This should treat mild infections(sneezing, red noses). For severe ri, it might be a longer shot at recovery and I suggest just feeding off those individuals.

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Just use Mazuri rodent breeder...higher protein built in :)

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Just use Mazuri rodent breeder...higher protein built in :)

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X2

Yup. Its specially designed and formulated for pregnant, nursing, and growing rats.

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I'm using mazuri. And I got the new mother and she took them in so all is well for the pups. But about the antibiotic, would I treat all the rats or just the tubs that I have had fatalities in? I've looked them over and none of them seem to be showing signs of RI except for the occasional sneeze.

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Originally Posted by mattj8501

I'm using mazuri. And I got the new mother and she took them in so all is well for the pups. But about the antibiotic, would I treat all the rats or just the tubs that I have had fatalities in? I've looked them over and none of them seem to be showing signs of RI except for the occasional sneeze.

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I wouldn't treat everyone. Just the ones who are sneezing a lot or showing signs of RI.

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I agree, sounds like a respiratory infection going through.

About all rats being sick - All rats have mycoplasmosis, but that doesn't mean they are all sick. Likewise every human has bacteria in their nasal passages and digestive tracts. So do all other mammals. Bacteria are normal and in fact some bacteria are good for us (those that help us digest our food and sythensize vitamins we cannot make ourselves), bacteria are not synonymous with disease. That said... mycoplasmosis CAN cause respiratory infection, IF something else is going on, such as poor nutrition, poor environmental conditions, stress, etc. This is pretty normal for people too (many people carry different strains of bacteria in their gut, under normal and healthy conditions the good bacteria out number the bad bacteria, and the person is healthy, when conditions become unfavorable and the person becomes stress, the person's immune system can no longer keep the bad bacteria in check, the bad bacteria increase, and the person becomes ill). And while a rat may appear to die for "no apparent reason", there is always a reason, we just may not see it. It could be organ failure, due to an environmental toxin we are unaware of. It may be an acute respiratory infection we did not see symptoms for (it happens, depending on how virulent the infection is). It could have been an internal tumor or abscess we were unaware of, maybe something in the brain, etc etc. While I was breeding pet rats, I did many necropsies to see the exact cause of death to better track my lines, and I saw a lot of things on the insides of those rats that were not immediately apparent on the outside. Not all rats have to die of diseases or conditions, it just takes time and careful record keeping to breed healthier rats, in addition to good environmental conditions, nutrition, etc.

just an update.. no other deaths and babies and mom have taken to each other very well. also have one pregnant female and one that might be showing. thank you all for all your input and for being so kind about it. it really helped me out.

The new mother and a rat in a different tub both passed today.. I don't know what's going on. I also lost two of the rat pups. I started a tetracycline treatment today. Any other ideas? I keep them on kiln dried pine from Walmart. Could that be the issue?

At this point it might be best to cull them all and start over with new rats from a different source.

If its the MRM, it could easily wipe out your whole colony. Breeding rats in quantity takes a decent amount of learning. If you have mice around then they need to be quarantined away from the rats always! Don't touch your rats, then go touch your mice.... I hope you pull through buddy at this point it may be best to eliminate all of the new rats that came in as well as any that came in contact with the new ones. disinfect all your tubs in the rack, disinfect the rack, wipe down any surfaces with Clorox wipes, etc... 3 key points of a successful rat breeding colony: isolation, sanitation and isolation.

I use the same bedding, so I doubt that's the issue unless you managed to get a batch that was contaminated with something. Which is not outside the realm of possibilities, but it's pretty unlikely.

I agree with wilomn. It sucks, but it's probably in your best interest to start with a clean slate. Make sure you disinfect everything they've come in contact with well, and hopefully a new colony will thrive for you.

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That's what I was thinking. But it's very hard for me to get breeders where I'm at. None of the breeders will sell females with the exception of the one I got to save the pups. I'm from East Tennessee and the main stock I got was from my friend in Birmingham Alabama. I do not keep mice but I do have a colony of African soft furs and none of them have passed. They seem to actually be thriving. I wondered if it was because I was keeping them in a basement but I kept my rats I already had in the basement before I picked up the new ones. I've been staying on top of cleaning. Maybe the tetracycline will get rid of the problem.
The guy I got the new ones from in Birmingham keeps around 1000 rats and I've contacted him and not of his dying like this.