Temperature/humidity worries

So I think I'm being an overly paranoid new mommy but I'm worried about the tank setup I've got for my new little guy who arrived just this morning. He's a month old and is in great shape and even ate a fuzzy rat for me this evening already. However, I'm a little worried that I may not have the temp and humidity being monitored correctly.

Here's the setup: 20 gallon terrarium with screen lid, zoomed uth on right third of tank, giant corner water dish on left third, hiding spot in middle, couple climbing branches. Cypress Mulch substrate about an inch thick all over, small area of moss by water dish. Zoomed thermometer/hydrometer with hydrometer right in middle of tank, thermometer as close to bottom as possible by UTH but still on glass wall above substrate, digital ambient thermometer right above water dish. I've covered half the screen lid with a piece of cardboard to try to keep moisture in. I have a dual heat lamp with a black 75 watt bulb and 100 watt red bulb. My intention was to use red during day and black at night, but I feel like the temps are fluctuating too much and I can't find a happy medium. We keep our house pretty darn cold (AC set at 70 all the time) and its pretty dry here. The humidity has been around 30% even though I've been spraying water 5-6 times a day (I've had the tank set up for over a week to get it consistent before he arrived), and I am a little worried that the thermometers are not accurate enough since I don't have an actual probe set up on the floor where he lays. The two thermometers have been around 82 on cold side and 87 on warm side with both bulbs turned on but I'm terrified that he's either going to get too hot if I leave them on like this all the time or too cold if I try to turn one bulb off. Also, aside from adding foil to the lid, which I'm about to do, any suggestions for avoiding this crazy dryness? Thanks in advance!

If your bulbs are running at full power and sitting on the screen lid it would be a good bet that the bulbs are creating hot spots above 90. With a ambient temp of 87 I would guess the hot spot is way over 90.

What kind of thermometer are you using, and where is it located?

For humidity covering the screen will help but your temps being high will also kill your humidity. A nice easy fix for a glass tank is placing moss in your hides and spraying it to create a humid hide.

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Originally Posted by KMG

If your bulbs are running at full power and sitting on the screen lid it would be a good bet that the bulbs are creating hot spots above 90. With a ambient temp of 87 I would guess the hot spot is way over 90.

What kind of thermometer are you using, and where is it located?

For humidity covering the screen will help but your temps being high will also kill your humidity. A nice easy fix for a glass tank is placing moss in your hides and spraying it to create a humid hide.

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That's what I was afraid of. I turned off the red bulb for the night and left just the 75watt black and UTH. The lights are not sitting on the lid, they are hanging about 2 inches above it. I'm using a dual thermometer/hydrometer by Zoomed but I wasn't really sure where to put the probe. I didn't think it could go under the substrate to test the hotspot so I suctioned it on the wall as close to the bottom as possible. But this seems to be not nearly accurate enough. Is there a different approach to testing temps or placing probes that I should try? I've seen people here suggest the Walmart therm/hydrometer and I can go get one if it would be more accurate than what I'm using.

I have some moss right in front of his hide but if it's safe I can put some in his hide too. I had a feeling that the super hot bulbs were more of the culprit of zapping all the humidity so I wanted to make sure I got the balance right.

Also, with a screen top it's hard to keep in humidity, it took me weeks of different approaches to figure out what works best for me. What I end up doing is leaving damp towels covering the top of the cage, except where the lamps go and little edges for air flow. Just re-dampen them every morning and you should be fine--you don't want them sopping wet or anything. Doing this i never even have to mist or anything anymore. I know that some members here find that putting plastic wrap on the top and just misting once or twice a day can work too.

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Originally Posted by Banana

That's what I was afraid of. I turned off the red bulb for the night and left just the 75watt black and UTH. The lights are not sitting on the lid, they are hanging about 2 inches above it. I'm using a dual thermometer/hydrometer by Zoomed but I wasn't really sure where to put the probe. I didn't think it could go under the substrate to test the hotspot so I suctioned it on the wall as close to the bottom as possible. But this seems to be not nearly accurate enough. Is there a different approach to testing temps or placing probes that I should try? I've seen people here suggest the Walmart therm/hydrometer and I can go get one if it would be more accurate than what I'm using.

I have some moss right in front of his hide but if it's safe I can put some in his hide too. I had a feeling that the super hot bulbs were more of the culprit of zapping all the humidity so I wanted to make sure I got the balance right.

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When using UTH's your thermometer probe needs to be under the substrate on the floor of the cage directly over the UTH. (No suction cups) The substrate layer needs to be thin, 1/2" thick or less.

Do you have a thermostat for your UTH?

There really isn't any reason to use both a red and black light bulb on the same cage. Either can be left on 24/7 without any issue.

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Originally Posted by Samii

Also, with a screen top it's hard to keep in humidity, it took me weeks of different approaches to figure out what works best for me. What I end up doing is leaving damp towels covering the top of the cage, except where the lamps go and little edges for air flow. Just re-dampen them every morning and you should be fine--you don't want them sopping wet or anything. Doing this i never even have to mist or anything anymore. I know that some members here find that putting plastic wrap on the top and just misting once or twice a day can work too.

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I hadn't thought of that, but I will try it, thanks! I was going to try wrapping with foil but had a bad feeling that would be way too tempting for my cats.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

When using UTH's your thermometer probe needs to be under the substrate on the floor of the cage directly over the UTH. (No suction cups) The substrate layer needs to be thin, 1/2" thick or less.

Do you have a thermostat for your UTH?

There really isn't any reason to use both a red and black light bulb on the same cage. Either can be left on 24/7 without any issue.

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So just go ahead and stick the thermometer probe down under the substrate against the glass where the UTH is? The UTH was a basic one so it does not have a thermometer. I didn't see any that did while I was looking but I could certainly be wrong. I will also reduce the amount of substrate to make sure it is around 1/2 inch thick. Also I worry about the temp at the top of the tank where the bulbs are. If he were to climb up there I wouldn't want him getting scorched. Any particular thermometers recommended for those types of readings?

I originally was going to have the red bulb for day as it's a little warmer and black for night as it's not producing the same heat as the red. This was just per the suggestion of the breeder that I lower the temps slightly at night.

There is no reason to lower temps at night, not for a pet.

The best way to test the temp of a surface (like under the heat bulbs) is with a IR temp gun. Amazon has them cheap. A temp gun with a thermometer on the back wall will do just fine. If you get a temp gun using a suction cup to mount the probe like you had it is perfect.

A uth needs to have a thermostat. I Like the Herpstat. http://www.spyderrobotics.com/store/...ain_page=index

Buy the best tstat you can afford. Your snake can live a long time and repeatedly buying cheaps ones will cost more than buying one good one in the beginning.

Until you get a tstat I would unplug the uth and only use the lamps. A uth can really hurt your snake if its not regulated. To answer your question about a probe for the UTH: the probe from a tstat should go between the uth and the bottom of the cage on the outside while the probe for a thermometer should go inside under the substrate against the cage floor.

Just a note... That 100 watt rd light is going to put out a lot of heat <and yes, zap your humidity>, you might want to put it on a dimmer. You can buy them at Home Depot for $10. That way you can adjust it accordingly.

OMG... I feel like the worst mommy ever. I thought I had done all my research and bought everything he needed but you were all right, it was way too warm in there and I had not gotten the thermometers set up correctly at all. I bought a temp with a probe to test the floor where the UTH was and it was 101 against the glass and 97 on top of the substrate :'-( luckily he had been smart and had been in his hide and had not been laying right on top of the UTH. The lights were also too hot so I've got him just on a black one now. Thanks for all of the advice... I think I've got everything balanced now. He was very unhappy with me pulling him out today to fix it and struck quite a few times but I'm hoping that he will relax if I leave him alone for the next few weeks except for feeding, etc.

One last question, I've been unable to find an UTH with a temp control. Since I have a good temp gauge on it now should I just unplug it when it gets too hot? Can they be used with dimmers or are timers a better option?

Thanks again! I hope to report a happier snake very soon :)

UTH's should always be on a thermostat. If you can afford it, get a herpstat as was suggested above. If money is tight, amazon sells one called a hydrofarm. They work nicely until you can upgrade.

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

UTH's should always be on a thermostat. If you can afford it, get a herpstat as was suggested above. If money is tight, amazon sells one called a hydrofarm. They work nicely until you can upgrade.

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Thanks. I just ordered the hydrofarm from Amazon and will hope it does the trick until I can afford the herpstat. While I wait for it to arrive should I just plug and unplug the heater every few hours depending on temps?

If you don't want to have to plug and unplug all the time you can get a dimmer cord from somewhere like home depot. It will allow you to turn the power down on your UTH to keep it at a more comfortable level until the thermostat comes in.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Cr...N#.UftgW5LVAu4

Plugging and unplugging the uth is not a good way to control the uth. I'm glad you bought a tstat.

You said your snake was smart and stayed in his hide and not over the uth. Does that mean you only have one hide and its on the cool side?

You need to have at least two hides and one should be over the uth.

Also just a tip. A dimmer can work in a pinch but should not be relied on to run a uth. The problem is they do not respond to the environment so if the room gets really warm the dimmer does not adjust and it with make it to warm for the snake. Or if the room gets cold it will not increase the power and the hotspot will be to cold for the snake. Also if you have fluctuating temps in the room you will find yourself constantly adjusting it.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Plugging and unplugging the uth is not a good way to control the uth. I'm glad you bought a tstat.

You said your snake was smart and stayed in his hide and not over the uth. Does that mean you only have one hide and its on the cool side?

You need to have at least two hides and one should be over the uth.

Also just a tip. A dimmer can work in a pinch but should not be relied on to run a uth. The problem is they do not respond to the environment so if the room gets really warm the dimmer does not adjust and it with make it to warm for the snake. Or if the room gets cold it will not increase the power and the hotspot will be to cold for the snake. Also if you have fluctuating temps in the room you will find yourself constantly adjusting it.

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His hide is in the middle. I worried about putting one over the hot spot since it's so hot. His water dish is on the cold side. I tried posting a pic of the setup but the app on my phone is just not having it today.

Once you get the tstat get another hide and put it over the uth.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Got too worried/frustrated waiting for the order from amazon and went out and found a temp regulator for the UTH today. There is a really great exotic pet store close to where I live and for the most part they've been very helpful. I got really frustrated today though when I went there and actually found what I needed to control the UTH heater, just to be told by an employee that I was wasting my money and that "ball pythons are the easiest pet to take care of. Just get a 50 watt bulb and quit worrying about the rest". Whatever. Maybe it's overkill but I've got the UTH on a regulator set to 93 degrees with an additional thermometer probe to make sure it's doing its job. Also have therm/hydrometer on hot side with additional hide and therm on cold side. Got some moss for humidity and a couple climbing sticks and a nice big pool and my baby is much happier with his ride all pimped! :D Happy Phil!

Sounds good.

Though it is true you can use only a bulb to heat the enclosure and hotspot I don't like to. I prefer to have two sources. Having two allows me to worry less about going away and what may happen when I am gone.

Its not wasting money its giving you and your snakes the best chance of thriving in the hobby. I would still keep the hydrotherm when you get it and use it as an emergency back up.

Actually not a bad idea since it was $30. Thanks for the suggestion, I will probably do that. I'm starting to understand the theory behind just coughing up the money for the better equipment to begin with because I think at this point I've wasted a ton on crappy thermometers and incorrect lighting.

I know BP's are some of the easier snakes to take care of, which can be some of their appeal. I kept a BP alive for 13 years when I was a kid/teenager with the limited knowledge that I had. But what I'm realizing now is that there is a difference between keeping a BP alive and having a thriving, happy animal. I guess it was just frustrating to me that I was there willing to spend the money to do it right and he insisted that I was just being silly. I thanked him for the advice and went ahead and purchased what I thought was right based on what I had read and been given advice on. To each his own, I guess :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/04/re6ygequ.jpg

There he is, enjoying his new hot spot hide :D

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Originally Posted by Banana

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/04/re6ygequ.jpg

There he is, enjoying his new hot spot hide :D

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Cute little guy!!! I saw your feeding post, Grats on getting him all settled in. Like you, I kept Bp's years ago not knowing 1/3 of what I know now. Makes me sad to think that Zeus and Thor likely weren't as happy as healthy as they could have been. Definitely getting it done the correct way this time around.

Best of luck to ya... I look forward to pics of Phil as he grows.

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

Cute little guy!!! I saw your feeding post, Grats on getting him all settled in. Like you, I kept Bp's years ago not knowing 1/3 of what I know now. Makes me sad to think that Zeus and Thor likely weren't as happy as healthy as they could have been. Definitely getting it done the correct way this time around.

Best of luck to ya... I look forward to pics of Phil as he grows.

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Thanks! Yeah my precious Julia Squeezer led a long life but now thinking back I remember a few shedding and respiratory problems. So this time around I'm going to do it right, even if it does seem to be a little over the top. I'm just so relieved that after a few days of incorrect temps, etc, he still did well eating and not striking today. My husband is already so excited about him that he is now talking about getting his own :D I think he's caught the bug :)

Get some needle nose pliers and pull out the staples from the half log. With the humidity they will start to rust fast and neither you or your snake needs to get scratched by that.

Also half logs are not the best for balls because they are open on both ends with large doors. They are still very usable though. Use construction paper and cover the back and maybe the sides of the tank. That will black out the rear hide door and help insulate the tank a bit. Then take a big clump of moss and put it in the front door. Moss is easy to crawl through but it will block the light and add to the feeling of security within the hide.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Get some needle nose pliers and pull out the staples from the half log. With the humidity they will start to rust fast and neither you or your snake needs to get scratched by that.

Also half logs are not the best for balls because they are open on both ends with large doors. They are still very usable though. Use construction paper and cover the back and maybe the sides of the tank. That will black out the rear hide door and help insulate the tank a bit. Then take a big clump of moss and put it in the front door. Moss is easy to crawl through but it will block the light and add to the feeling of security within the hide.

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Good point, I can't believe I missed the staples. I made sure to clean all of them out underneath and somehow missed the ones on top.

The whole tank is covered right now with cardboard on every side. I went with the half log just for now sort of knowing he may need something different soon. It was cheap and readily available until I found a better solution. However, since the whole cage is blacked out right now, I didn't worry as much about the log being open. It does have some moss around it but I will try closing one opening with it.

Thanks again for the suggestions!