I'm so bummed... *graphic pics

So all of these guys were candling well a week ago. I'm not sure what happened with this clutch but if anyone can give me some advice I would much appreciate it. I've been breeding for 3 years now and until now I haven't had any issues with incubation. I have a natures spirit with herpstat at 89.5.

This morning one pipped and it wasn't moving. Just had its nose sticking out of the egg. I could tell something wasn't right when i opened the tub and it didnt move so I started cutting and found 6 out of 8 babies were dead.

This one I think has the heart on the outside of its body. It was the first to pip.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/30/meraduhy.jpg

The others were not developed and the liquid in the egg was like jello.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/30/2emerusa.jpg

I have 2 other clutches in my incubator and they both look good. Have about 10 days left to go on those.

The two babies left that are still alive seem to be doing ok. I see a little bel poking its head out and looking around. It seems to be alert and ill just let them be until they come out.

This is a pretty crappy feeling losing these guys and I just want to make sure I can prevent it in the future if possible.

sorry for your losses. Not sure what could be the cause. An un noticed spike in temperature?

I was kind of wondering if maybe I had a power outage or something while I was on vacation a few weeks ago but all of my clocks were set when we got back. I don't know. I just really hope the other babies are ok. I checked the other clutches and I can see movement in every egg.

I'm so sorry. I hope the little BEL pulls through for you.

The only thing I know that would cause this would be probs with temps, but you're other clutches appear healthy so idk:confusd:. I'm sorry for your losses but glad that at least two of the lil worms seem to have made it! Wishing the best for you and will be interested to know how your other clutches fair... God forbid, but if they appear to have issues it may have been a power surge, the kind that shuts everything in the house of momentarily but not long enough to reset clocks? I hope that isn't the case n that this was some fluke incident!

Thanks for the good wishes. I'll update in a few days with the BEL and I think the other one is a little mojave.

Awww. I feel for you sweetie. One question, the eggs that you lost, had those parents ever been bred together before? Sometimes things like this happen because two snakes are not compatible. I remember reading a post just a short time ago about a female who slugged out when bred to a particular male, although he produces fine with other females.

Sometimes we just don't know the reason why these things happen, and we just have to carry on as best we can. This is the side of breeding any animal no one likes to talk about, but it comes with the territory and I think it is important we share these experiences with others. Especially new breeders need to know, it's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows and lollipops.

Gale

I bred a virgin mojave to my proven lesser male. I was wondering about it being her first go at breeding maybe something went wrong early on, but I would think all would be dead if they weren't compatible? Keeping my fingers crossed for the two left :(

I am sorry for your losses. Best wishes for the survivors and the other clutches.

Keep us updated

sorry to hear about your clutch. sometimes it's a compatible issue between the 2 snakes like angllady2 said. it happens, and this is what most would call a weak clutch. happen to me when I first started breeding and I was trying to figure it out just like you. so it's very possible that it wasn't nothing you did or an incubator problem, just a weak clutch. this is the bad part of breeding. it sucks when it happens, hope you have better luck on the next clutch, don

*update* the BEL is out of its egg. Still waiting on the little mojave. This little thing is the smallest hatchling I've ever seen. It's belly and heart seem swollen. Got a quick pic but didn't want to mess with them too much. I'll try to weigh them if they are doing ok tomorrow. I still have hope for these poor little ones :(
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/31/ugata3a2.jpg

:( That's so sad. Are you sure there wasn't a temp spike? Or humidity problems at all? Did you check temps with a good thermometer or just take the thermostat's word for it?

I have a herpstat and a small digital thermometer. They are both within a degree of each other.

Fingers crossed for your little survivors!

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Originally Posted by cschneider

I have a herpstat and a small digital thermometer. They are both within a degree of each other.

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All Herpstats are slightly off and need to be properly dialed in with a reliable secondary/tertiary source. What digital thermometer are you using? The first thing I do when receiving a herpstat is tune it properly with THESE and one of THESE. I have received some stats that were off by 3+ degrees, which is a big concern especially for incubation temps.

Sorry for your loss and best of luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by don15681

sorry to hear about your clutch. sometimes it's a compatible issue between the 2 snakes like angllady2 said. it happens, and this is what most would call a weak clutch. happen to me when I first started breeding and I was trying to figure it out just like you. so it's very possible that it wasn't nothing you did or an incubator problem, just a weak clutch. this is the bad part of breeding. it sucks when it happens, hope you have better luck on the next clutch, don

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I agree with Don. My first clutch this year was a disaster (lost the whole clutch) and had a similar clutch last year (different pairing). Other clutches in the same incubator laid around the same time are hatching out with no problems so I don't think it was a temp spike or humidity issue but more of a compatability issues with the parents. Maybe something happened between ovulation and the time she laid who knows.

Sorry to hear about your clutch...try to hang in there. It really is a great hobby and the good times will out weigh the bad.

I actually have the same thermometer. I've never heard of herpstat a being inaccurate. I will definitely check that out.

Been there on my first clutch,loss 2 Lavender Albinos. 2nd and 3rd clutches put the smile back on my face. Hopefully 5,6,7,and 8 will do the same.

Really sorry about the losses. :( Grats on the BEL and I hope it and its sibling do well for you.

*Update* they are both still alive although I'm still very concerned about the BEL with the swollen heart. Has anyone ever seen this before?

Got them on a scale. The mojave is 60grams and I love the pattern on it.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/ezasure4.jpg

Next the bel weighing in at a whopping 36 grams. Praying for this little one :(
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/evaqy7ap.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/yryse7ut.jpg

Hoping the bels heart is normal size and the little guy or girl just needs to grow into it.

Well I'm glad to see they both made it out the egg okay. I'll say a quick prayer for that BEL I've never seen anything like that :/ poor little thing. Please keep us updated, and good luck! I'll do some research to see if I can find anything on this.

So far it's going slow, but for now here is what I can offer:

1) Ball pythons have been born with enlarged hearts before... the stomach is something I haven't heard of before but not a unique case I'm sure. From my findings snakes with enlarged hearts can live for quite some time. One research article said that a pair of BPs being study lived to grow "several times their original body weight" though it does not mention a time frame :/

2) A python's heart can increase nearly 40% it's original size 2 to 3 days following a meal. All part of digestion. That considered I would ask you to consider undersize prey items when your BEL is ready to eat so as to make it easier for the lil worm.

I can post links to where I found this info if you're interested. I'm still doing some research, I'll share anything new that turns up.

I went to check on them this morning. The bel passed away during the night. He was twisted right where the heart was so I'm wondering if it had a heart attack or failure :(. Down to one mojave who is looking promising.

I don't think I'll be pairing these two again next season. Think ill invest in a new lesser male.

That is so sad to hear. I hope/pray that your mojave stays healthy.

The only idea I have to interject...What was your incubation medium? Happen to have changed it this year?
A few years ago I lost half of my eggs because I didn't realize until it was too late that Miracle-Gro perlite has fertilizer in it.

I'm so sorry to hear that the little BEL passed. Are you planning to necropsy?

No necropsy. I buried him already :( any I wouldn't even know what to look for.

Also I use a mix of perilite and hatch right.

I'm thinking its a pairing issue because my other clutches look ok so far. Hoping they will be healthy and I don't have to go through this again. It sucks losing great morphs but even worse losing them in general. I feel like a bad mom even though I don't think I could have done anything to help them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cschneider

I feel like a bad mom even though I don't think I could have done anything to help them.

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You're not a bad mom, as much as we stress and worry about these little guys and try to do everything to help, sometimes it's just out of our hands. I'm just sorry you had to go through this. *hugs*

I had a weak clutch last year. only one survived. but.... he's kickin butt right now and he eats like a pig. you would never know that he was from that clutch. good luck with the Mojave! don

Is there an update on the Mojave?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crystlew123

Is there an update on the Mojave?

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He (I think it's a boy) is doing good. Just shed last night and I'm hoping to give him his first meal soon. I love the pattern on this one!
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/15/y5ery9at.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/15/e6a3ebyp.jpg

He's super bright too. These are just pics from my iPhone with no auto correction.

He looks pretty nice