HELP me please!!! BP's scales are sloughing off--not a shed! Pics

Help me, please! I've talked to several breeders and Terry who runs the Dixie Reptile show and several vets and none of them have seen anything like this before. My snake's scales are sloughing off. It's not a shed. I mean her scales themselves are sliding off of her body from the tip of her nose to her tail in patches and I can see the skin underneath. It's only along her spine, not on her sides or belly. She's in pain. She's tense and was hissing when I went to (gently!) clean the substrate off of it. She wasn't striking, just hissing in pain. I've had her for two weeks. She has refused food so far, but otherwise was behaving normally. This wasn't going on a few days ago. She's in a tub. Temps are 90 on the warm side and 83 on the cool side, 60% humidity. No mites. I had her in QT already with a few of the other new guys I'd gotten, but she's now separated from them as well. There are no herp vets in my area. Terry called his vet and he seems to not know what it is, either, and is about 2 hours away. I'm afraid a ride that long would stress her even more, so I don't want to drive 4 hours round trip with her if he's not going to be able to help her. I've called every vet in a 100 mile radius and none of them specialize in reptiles or have any idea what could be wrong. They said it could be bacterial, could be fungal, might be contagious, might not be. I don't know what to do! My first sick snake and it's a mystery illness. :tears:

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If you didn't say that you had her in a tub, I would say that it looks like a burn:weirdface. Was she like that when you got her or did it only appear later?

The first thing that you need to do is verify that your husbandry is correct. You will want to provide as close to perfect husbandry as possible until this is over with. I would suggest cleaning out her cage and replacing the substrate with paper towels. This is a much cleaner substrate and will help you keep an eye on her. Then you need to keep the snake's cage hospital clean until this is over. I've never seen anything like this, but I would suggest trying a warm bath in a betadine solution. Do NOT apply Neosporin to the would as that will only make things worse.

Is there anything in the cage that could cut/scrape her like that? I would try giving her as minimalistic of a setup as possible. something like this:

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BlueMoon, she wasn't like that when I got her. It's definitely not a burn. She's got belly heat and it's not hot enough (90 degrees with a thermostat). Serpent Merchant, she's in a tub with two identical hides, and a water bowl, nothing else. Temps and humidity are spot on. Her setup is the exact same as the rest and all of my others are fine. I'll get some betadine and switch her to paper towels. There's nothing that could cut or scrape. The inside of the tub is smooth. My hides are different, but my therm/hygro (in addition to thermostat) is the same as yours and the bowl is the same type, but a little bigger.
She was soaking when I got her, but the humidity was low (aquarium setup) and she doesn't have mites. I've checked her water, put her on paper for a few days, and looked all over her just in case and she hasn't soaked at all since I've had her. She hasn't eaten for me yet, but it didn't raise any warning flags because she's new and I've had them take a week or two to eat. She's obviously in pain and it hurts my heart that she's hurting and there's nothing I can do but leave her alone.

Could it be a skin infection?

I'd think a vet should be able to get a swab and try and culture it and at least provide some anti-biotics in the meantime and some of that cream I can never remember ( silver sulphadine or something is it? )

Are you sure there is nothing in the tub she could be rubbing it on and abrading her skin?

What kind of hide is it and is it smooth inside?

Could she have been forcing herself between the lid and something or lifting the lid in the middle?

Just sitting watching it isn't really an option I could face to be honest. :(

ETA- if your vet has no idea it might be worth having him arrange a phone consult with someone like dr Stahl - he could email him pictures and get advice on tests and possible causes?

dr del

Unfortunately there just isn't much effort being put into reptiles in the Veterinary industry. More than there use to be, but still nowhere near enough considering how many pet reptiles there are now. My sister is in school to become a vet, and some of the stuff she has been taught was terrifyingly wrong. (things like bearded dragons don't need UV light etc.)

I think the most important thing right now is trying to find out what caused it. My guess is that she rubbed herself too hard on something, but it could also be an infection of some type. Maybe try pulling everything but the water dish out of the tub and draping a towel or something over it to provide security for the snake.

After showing Terry and some friends the pics, the consensus is rat attack. It was only in with her for about 15 minutes and she had substrate on her when I went to take the rat out, so I didn't notice. My fault completely. :( I feel so bad about this.
Treatment? Terry says Neosporin, TSM says betadine. Which is better for an injury? And should I take her to the vet or treat it at home?

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Originally Posted by Parysa

After showing Terry and some friends the pics, the consensus is rat attack. It was only in with her for about 15 minutes and she had substrate on her when I went to take the rat out, so I didn't notice. My fault completely. :( I feel so bad about this.
Treatment? Terry says Neosporin, TSM says betadine. Which is better for an injury? And should I take her to the vet or treat it at home?

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NEVER apply Neosporin to a snake. Neosporin turns snake scales to mush, and will only make your problem so much worse.

Ok. Thank you. With the betadine bath, should I mix it with water or do it straight? Actually soak her or (gently) rub it in?

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Originally Posted by Parysa

Ok. Thank you. With the betadine bath, should I mix it with water or do it straight? Actually soak her or (gently) rub it in?

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You need to dilute it with water. I forget the exact ratio (I think it's 1 part betadine to 10 parts warm water) I would actually soak her for about 20-30 minutes in the solution. This will disinfect the wound. After that just keep the cage sterile and keep a close eye on her. If you see any signs of infection you need to get her to a vet for some antibiotics.

Best of luck, I hope she recovers quickly for you.

After you give her the betadine bath, I do recommend applying some silver sulphadine liberally to the affected area, if it is in fact a rat attack. I've had really good success with the stuff. Please check all advice given against a vet if possible, though.

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Originally Posted by Parysa

Ok. Thank you. With the betadine bath, should I mix it with water or do it straight? Actually soak her or (gently) rub it in?

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Add the Betadine to water until it looks like a fairly weak tea. My rescue girl was burnt from mid-stomach to vent and I was told by the vet to soak her in the Betadine/water mixture.

If you can get it, get the silver sulfadiazine. Only use a little bit. I had to get a prescription for it as its actually also used for humans as a burn cream.

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the input. I've switched her over to newspaper and bumped her heat up a couple degrees and did the betadyne bath. She seems to be a little bit more comfortable. She was at least not trying to eat my face anymore once I got her cleaned.

To me it looks like a rat got to her. Another user on this forum had a snake that had wounds just like that, and it was from a rat attack. Yours just looks like you cleaned it up. But when I saw the pictures it reminded me of the thread that user put up.


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http://www.worldofballpythons.com/ar...esson-for-all/

Here is the article off of world of ball pythons


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Solar Soldier, that seems to be the consensus. I've already started taking care of it and will be switching all of my snakes off of live.

I read the post. That looks exactly like what she has, just bloodier. And s/he does their feeding basically the same way I do except that that happened to mine in about 15 minutes with me in the room.
Why do they just sit there and let the rats chew? Can't they feel it?

Poor baby. Hope she heals up quickly for you.

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Originally Posted by Parysa

Solar Soldier, that seems to be the consensus. I've already started taking care of it and will be switching all of my snakes off of live.

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First of all, I'm not going to beat a dead horse because people have already given you some great advice.

I would, however, like to know what you are feeding the snake (as in what size) and are you sure it was only in there for 15 min? Usually, feeding smaller live meals in safer and make sure your feeders have food and water before being fed to your snake. If you get your feeders from a pet store, they can be cramped without food or water. Making sure the feeder is calm, well hydrated, and not hungry will help you against attacks. In addition, if you monitor your feedings (by keeping the tub open unless you have a nervous snake who won't eat while you're watching) and have a set of tongs/a pencil/chopstick/etc to put between the rat's teeth and your snake, feeding live can be very safe. I feed all my ball pythons live (minus one hatchling) and I've never had an issue with a rat attack.

Now, I'm not going to discourage you from switching off of live, but I just want you to be informed so you're switching for the right reasons. Feeding F/T can be just as safe and/or dangerous as feeding live.

Saw this thread on fauna as well. Glad you figured out what's going on. That's quite a bit of damage to be done in fifteen minutes. Thankfully the rat wasn't in there longer.

This is your cue to find a vet nearby for the next time you need one in a hurry. They don't have to be listed as herp vets, or even exotic vets to be able to see and help you. Just grab the phone book and start calling around and asking if they'd be open to seeing your animals. My new vet out here is just five minutes from my house, and they don't typically see exotics. Cats, dogs and large animals. However, I lucked out, and they told me they love snakes but don't get to see many. They were up front and honest that what they knew was just basic stuff, but they are very open to discussions and working together to fix problems. THAT right there, is worth its weight in gold. They fixed a random prolapse for me, and I've since been in with a box of morphs to show the vets and their children. I'm looking forward to giving one of the kids' friends her first ball python next month.

If you ever need a vet for phone consultation, for either you or your local vet, Dr Stahl on the east coast is fabulous.
http://www.seavs.com/

Good luck. Hoping the recovery is quick and uneventful for her.

BH, thanks. The rat was a little smaller than her girth, had been given food and water (the store where I get my feeders is good about making sure they have access to food and water) and seemed calm but inquisitive. It was no more than 15 minutes and I remember specifically because the rat bit me when I took it out (which is why I didn't pay much attention to the substrate on the snake's back since I figured rat + fresh blood was probably a good way to get bitten by her, too). The lid was closed because I've had the rats jump out of the tub before and I forgot to take her hide out like I normally do, so I think it may have gotten in there with her and I just didn't see it.
Shadera, thanks. It scared the heck out of me. I went to brush the substrate off of her back and saw this open wound and her scales slid under my finger. It was freaky. And then to see them all over her had me just about panicked.
There is a good herp vet in TN and he's been texting me since yesterday with advice, so in the future, I'll definitely be going to him. I called most of the vets in the city and the closest one who treats reptiles is about an hour from here. The emergency vets I talked to don't even treat snakes. Luckily, my boyfriend is a vet nurse and people paramedic and has some experience with snakes, so as long as he knows what's going on, he knows how to treat it. He's just never seen anything like that before.

Also, just an update, she seems to be doing better today. The wounds are clean and don't look as angry, though she's still doing her cobra impression, so she's still in pain. But I hopefully caught it before infection could set in. I'm following the vet's advice to a T and he says it's probably going to be a long process for her to heal completely, but I'll do whatever I need to to help her get better. There's just so little I can do. I'm used to dogs and horses that you have to hover over. So I'm leaving her alone aside from treatment and cleaning and hoping for the best.

Following the vet's advice is one of the best things to do. That plus common sense and the help from the forum and your baby will heal up great :)

Be sure to show progress pics of the recovery

Update: She's healing nicely. I put her on paper, bumped the heat, bathed her in Hibiclens (a medical cleanser similar to betadine), and adjusted the humidity based off of how she looked each day. Also, I know people said no neosporin, but the vet said yes and I'm going to go with what a vet says over someone on the Internet. However, I kept in mind the possibility of scales getting worse, so rather than use ointment with a lot of oil, I got a spray and lightly spritzed it on her twice per day until she started to shed. Then I bumped the humidity up and left her alone. She shed around the sores first and it looked really nasty. I didn't get pictures, but she looked really uncomfortable. I continued to leave her alone and she finally shed the rest of the way. She's got scars, but the sores are closed now. She still won't eat. I offered her F/T tonight and she seemed scared of it. She hissed and tried to get away, so I laid it down where she could just see it and she ignored it. So I'm going to wait another week and see if she takes it then.

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Glad she is getting better. I'm sure she will eat when she's not in pain anymore. Thanks for the update.