so turns out my thermometer in my incubator was off... by like 10 degrees!

I am kicking myself right now.I always use a separate temperature probe in my incubators, but i just didn't this time for some reason. I set up my eggs in the incubator and waited till today(day 52) and when i candled them they seemed to not be as big as I would expect at day 52. so I cut one egg open and the baby is alive but super tiny! so scratching my head I pulled out the temp gun and sure enough, the temp in like 80 in there!!! i bumped it up and am currently working on getting it to a good temp but I am furious! is there any chance my eggs will make it? how much longer should they be in their eggs? what can i do for the poor baby whose egg i cut? ARRGHH!!!
the following is rambling but I left it anyways
now I am scrambling to make sure the temp is ok. my temp gun is saying it is 86, one thermometer says 60 (obviously broken) and one says 90. the incubator itself says it is at 99. I am going crazy the temp gun pointed at my tongue is saying 93 so it is obviously wrong too! what else can go wrong today??!! I can't find a good working thermometer- I am going to put one in with my chicken eggs since they are hatching great so that should tell me what thermometers are working and that should give me an idea for where to set my incubator.

anyone with advice is greatly appreciated

Oh no!! That sucks, I hope the little guys make it. I can't give any advice on the babies but may I ask what temp gun you're using? If you're not using one already, I'd recommend the IR guns you can find at Lowes or Home Depot. They're pretty darn accurate and I think in the $30-50 range.

we would love pics

do not bring the temp up too fast! Slow and steady is key. I've seen eggs hatched from 80 it just took them a good two weeks longer to hatch. But if you feel compelled to bring the temps up to normal I'd recommend at most 1-1.5 degrees a day

6 degrees in one a couple hours is a huge spike. These back and forth temps are hurting them more than just leaving it be would have

I have pics but it wont let me post them (i think my post count is too low) and I just got chewed out by a different snake breeder who told me I pretty much killed them so I am actually feeling pretty crummy. so to anyone else who wants to make me feel bad - I already feel terrible and am crying.
I am using a zoo med temp gun which I have been informed is junk. everything is junk.
I have the temp stable now, but any hope I had is pretty much gone at this point. I suppose I will update when they do/dont hatch to satisfy people's curiosity.

incubating at 80.5 degrees f, pip at 97 days, when incubating eggs, big changes in either temp or humidity during incubation can cause problems in the egg.

how long has it been since you increased the temps? we all made mistakes, I'm sure I'll make more.

about an hour. should I just leave it as is ?

no turn it back down

one hour is nothing

the other breeder told me not to touch anything. and he made me feel like an irresponsible idiot- i don't want to do anything else to prove him right.

who's the other breeder

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only about an hour, turn it back down to as close to where it was

I would feel bad naming names but he is big time, has 11,000 likes on facebook and produces stuff I only dream of. thought he would help me.

one hour isn't that long, plus the egg tub will heat up a little slower than the incubator. it's another barrier from the heat

how much did you take the temps up

facebook was it on ball python breeders group

I'm gonna go ahead and second the notion to return the temps to where they were. Like now. Going over on temp is worse than going under. I don't care who that other breeder his, tell him to shove it. It sounds like your babies are developing normally for a low temperature, just give them a few more weeks at the same temperature. If you spike it now you could cause developmental issues that might not have been there before, it will almost certainly do more harm than good.

was set at 88 when i temped it it was at 80 by the temp gun which proved to be a few degrees off (i temped my mouth with it at 93 not the best test but the first thing i could think of) I changed the temp up 8 degrees before i tested my temp gun

time is against you. you need to lower those temps back down. did this other breeder know that it was only around an hour?

8 degree is a huge difference

ok i turned the temp back to where it was. hopefully he doesn't read this forum and chew me out again. I am assuming he didn't know i will reread my original message to him. i think he was mostly mad i cut the egg in the first place, it didn't seem like they were developing right for the amount of time they were in there so i cut to check. i see now that i should have just let them be.

how big of a cut to that egg?

it started small- but i only saw the white (the snake is really hidden) so i assumed it was a bad egg and opened it more to see when it stopped developing like an autopsy -( i always do that with any chickens that don't hatch to see what went wrong so i can do research and try to fix it for next time.) but once i opened it more i realized the baby was still alive so i put the egg back and closed the flap as best as I could but I think it is opened to much-
i wasn't careful when I opened it more -I thought it was a dud egg. I am still crying since I know I pretty much killed it.

You can get pure saline solution and wash the cut egg out by spraying a little in each day. Won't hurt anything at all.

well don't give up on it. if you can close the flap and put a "little" liquid bandaid on it without getting it in the egg or all over the egg might help. if not get some distilled water and place it inside you incubator to have the same temp as your egg. don't let the egg dry out and keep it clean with q tips being very careful. if left open will usually grow funky color stuff inside the egg.

You didn't necessarily kill the baby. It sounds like you turned the temps back down so keep them there and as long as the baby is still able to be submerged in the egg it should be fine. Keep the egg tub closed up and leave them alone to develop. The only issue you may have now is if the egg that was cut looses all its "juice" or gets nasty. All you can do now is wait and see.

Sorry to hear it, I know it doesn't make you feel much better but you're not the first person who's ever had an incubator malfunction and you won't be the last either...be glad it was running cool and they can still hatch, just on a longer time period, if it'd been running hot they would have cooked litterally.

Temp guns are handy for scanning and checking to see if things look close everywhere, checking for hot spots, but they are not accurate. The tolerance on them at incubation temps is +/-2 degrees F...do you have any friends close who have a thermometer that they know is calibrated? That you could borrow? If not, I would try to find one of the mercury or alcohol filled glass tube type thermometers, one of the hospital grade types or possibly like the rectal ones some vets may still have around. I have one of those as a safety check sitting in a glass of water on one of the shelves in my incubator.

I hope all the babies turn out ok. Don't beat yourself up about it. It won't help anything and will only make you feel worse. We all make mistakes and there are plenty of breeders who have had temp problems. You're not the first and you won't be the last. I think that breeder was much too harsh. It's apparent you care about your snakes.

Like I said to keep it clean, flush the opening with saline solution, and wipe any mold off with a qtip

i dont have anything here- believe me my house looks like it was just robbed I ripped every drawer and cabinet apart looking for other thermometers and all I have is a meat thermometer and a baby thermometer. (i crushed my good one moving racks around) and the closest person I know of that breeds snakes and would have thermometer to borrow is N.E.R.D about 2 hours away haha so I am going to just go buy some new ones tomorrow morning. I have the one from my chicken incubator in it now- its no fine piece of equipment, but my chicks were hatching fine so it has to be pretty close.
thanks for all the advice- I was ready to sell all my snakes and never breed again once I got chewed out by the other person, so kind advice really helped, I am still teary and feel sick so - lesson learned. and next time I try breeding I am making sure EVERYTHING is working EXACTLY as it needs to be before I even pair any snakes.

Don't beat yourself up over this. We all make mistakes. Even that breeder who chewed you out has probably made a few mistakes in his lifetime. If it's who I think it is, he tends to be way over sarcastic and I've contemplated not following his page. Just do like everyone else on here is staying and hopefully you can save all the eggs.

i think maybe he is just used to people not taking his advice so he starts out on the offensive- I was just taken aback because I am fairly mild mannered and already felt really bad. I have read through more of his facebook posts and he does seem to belittle newbies -and justly so sometimes- I know some people can be really stupid, but I was just asking for help to try to save my snakes. anyways thanks- I will update as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Don't beat yourself up over this. We all make mistakes. Even that breeder who chewed you out has probably made a few mistakes in his lifetime. If it's who I think it is, he tends to be way over sarcastic and I've contemplated not following his page. Just do like everyone else on here is staying and hopefully you can save all the eggs.

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^This. Even if he hasn't made terrible mistakes with his snakes, surely he's made terrible mistakes at some point in life and someone somewhere would have already known better than to make the mistake he did. Most likely because they've done it themselves. It's only human... Don't let this deter you. Learn from it and move on. Pass the lesson on to others. At least you are trying to make it right and you've learned a harsh lesson. It's the ones that never learn that should not be breeding IMO.

Ok deep breath, it has been my experience that cooler temps don't seem to have as detrimental an effect on developing eggs as higher temps. With that said you've gotten some good advice so far leave the temps where they were and wait to see when they pip on their own. Secondly the egg that you cut depending on how big of a hole you made you can use things like liquid band-aid yo seal it back up, elmer's glue and a small bit of cling film can do the trick to, or if its just a small hole throw a band-aid on it. I've miss counted and cut eggs at day 45 instead of 55 or 60 and use the elmers glue and cling film to seal the egg back up. if by now they haven't died due to the lower temps then you should be good.. Remember this is all a learning experience even for me I learn something new every year about breeding these animals.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out for ya.

As for the temp gun, getting a read of 93 on your tongue hanging out of your mouth might not be so inaccurate. Your core body temperature may be 98.6, but evaporative cooling could explain a few degrees difference, for the same reason sweating cools you down. The best thing to do would be to test the gun against the reading from something you know to be accurate. Or, failing that, several things you suspect are accurate. Do you have a thermometer in your fridge? Test it against that, and the probe in your snake cages, et cetera.

Keep your hopes up and listen to all the great advice everyone has given you . We all make mistakes, the important thing is to learn from them. Great job to everyone helping and giving great advice.

I am honestly really bothered by how you were treated by that breeder. A breeder of that caliber is looked up to and as such should be more kind. I'm sorry you were treats poorly. That's unfair.

Behind that..

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

I am honestly really bothered by how you were treated by that breeder. A breeder of that caliber is looked up to and as such should be more kind. I'm sorry you were treats poorly. That's unfair.

Behind that..

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I agree. Big breeders should be helping the little guys become the best they can be, for the sake of the hobby, not just making them feel like idiots. That's NOT how to teach.

Beyond that... Even though I only have human breeding experience the Elmer's glue sounds like a risk. Being that its a water soluble product I would be concerned that it would mix with the albumin of the egg. I wouldn't do it.

Good luck with those little ones!!! I hope they all pull through for you.

Yeah... I didn't want to get smacked with a personal attack if the breeder is a member here.

I edited mine so you're good. :P

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

I only have human breeding experience

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And btw, ^^ that cracked me up. :rofl:

Teeheehee :-P

Yikes, sorry to hear about this. Best of luck getting the eggs to full term, especially the one you cut - keep us updated!

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

As for the temp gun, getting a read of 93 on your tongue hanging out of your mouth might not be so inaccurate. Your core body temperature may be 98.6, but evaporative cooling could explain a few degrees difference, for the same reason sweating cools you down. The best thing to do would be to test the gun against the reading from something you know to be accurate. Or, failing that, several things you suspect are accurate. Do you have a thermometer in your fridge? Test it against that, and the probe in your snake cages, et cetera.

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^ This. Remember the days when you had to hold the thermometer under your tongue for five minutes, and weren't allowed to talk? That's because opening your mouth to the outside air would have lowered the reading on the thermometer.

Everyone has given very good advice (except the FB jack"rabbit"). I also second Freakie_Frog's suggestion with the cling wrap to close that egg back up, since it could be a few weeks before the baby is fully developed and that's a long time to have it open to bacterial and mold growth.

I think we have all had our share of heartbreaking mistakes. Even when you think you have done all the research and setup everything correctly things can go wrong and animals can die. Just make sure that mistakes are used as a tool to better yourself and not to beat up on yourself.

ok so I checked the one good thermometer this morning and it says between 84 and 85 degrees. Since I set the temperature back to the original 88 when you guys told me to last night, I am going to guess that they were being incubated between 84 and 85, not as bad as the temp gun said (80) but not great either.

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Originally Posted by angelobutter

ok so I checked the one good thermometer this morning and it says between 84 and 85 degrees. Since I set the temperature back to the original 88 when you guys told me to last night, I am going to guess that they were being incubated between 84 and 85, not as bad as the temp gun said (80) but not great either.

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I know breeders who incubated at these temp with that purpose not a mistake. and everything came out with great results. being higher than the 80 degree makes things better. the post I had posted at the beginning about 97 days at 80.5 degrees f was straight out of the vpi book. the temps you're at if they are correct should be somewhere around 70 days. so it's looking better for the egg that you cut and the others should be fine.

you need to also keep an eye on how the substrate is. opening the tub more will dry it out faster. you are coming to the end of incubation so at day 55 with a mid 80 temp you are about 2 weeks out give or take a few days. this is when I usually leave more air into my egg boxes any way. keep us posted as what's going on so we can help you correct something if needed. good luck, it's not as bad as you thought. I'm waiting to see these eggs pip! don

just want to offer some encouragement - my incubator, on its own, went up to 144 degrees (exoterra incubator- garbage made in china, don't buy!) twice - the first time i don't know for how long, and the 2nd time i caught it in a matter of seconds and immediately drove an hour away to bring the eggs to my friend with an incubator (at 11PM) - out of 8, only one egg went bad, and the 7 babies were perfect.

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Originally Posted by hypersomniacjoo

just want to offer some encouragement - my incubator, on its own, went up to 144 degrees (exoterra incubator- garbage made in china, don't buy!) twice - the first time i don't know for how long, and the 2nd time i caught it in a matter of seconds and immediately drove an hour away to bring the eggs to my friend with an incubator (at 11PM) - out of 8, only one egg went bad, and the 7 babies were perfect.

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very possible that the egg that went bad. would of went bad even under perfect conditions, it happens. congratz on your clutch. don

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Originally Posted by angelobutter

I have pics but it wont let me post them (i think my post count is too low) and I just got chewed out by a different snake breeder who told me I pretty much killed them so I am actually feeling pretty crummy. so to anyone else who wants to make me feel bad - I already feel terrible and am crying.
I am using a zoo med temp gun which I have been informed is junk. everything is junk.
I have the temp stable now, but any hope I had is pretty much gone at this point. I suppose I will update when they do/dont hatch to satisfy people's curiosity.

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Don't beat yourself up. We all make mistakes in this hobby at some point, live and learn.