Dreams of breeding ball pythons? Kiss them goodbye.

USFWS (i.e. the bad guy) is trying to pass a law lifting the requirements to add any animal to the Lacey Act. in order for burms, retics, anacondas, boas etc. to be added, extensive research must be done regarding how likely they are to become an invasive species vs how much money they generate in the hobby. burmese, retics, and anacondas are not nearly the money generators that ball pythons are, so with the current legislation, they would have a difficult time adding ball pythons to the Lacey Act.

IF THIS LAW PASSES, OUR BALL PYTHONS WILL BE NEXT. there is no doubt about it. they can add our BALL PYTHONS to the list as an invasive species with no scientific evidence to back it.

I don't think people realize the implications of this. This is the BIGGEST threat our hobby has ever been under. anyone that breeds ball pythons knows most sales are done over the internet to customers in other states. if the interstate transport of ball pythons is shut down, we are finished. game over.


here is a link to oppose this legislation:
http://usark.org/action-alert/usfws-...l-exclusion-2/
it gives you a few different places to send your emails, including your local representatives. please email all of them.

again mods: i know there is a thread about this in the pet laws section, but i dont think that section generates enough traffic that something like this NEEDS.

also, this must be done BEFORE July 31st. they are only giving us until the end of the month to voice our opinions. :please:

Voiced! :gj:

I'll be sending in a couple more emails tonight too.

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Emailed FWS and my Representative earlier today.

the thing is, if this law is passed, nothing is stopping them from putting ANY animal on the list. it doesnt just stop with our reptiles. if they want, there is nothing stopping them from taking away our birds, gerbils, ferrets, guinea pigs, rabbits.. even "dangerous" dog breeds like pitbulls, rottweilers, chows, bull dogs.. pitbulls are already banned in a lot of places, but if added to the Lacey Act list and you want to move somewhere with your family and pittie, it's either get rid of your dog or commit a felony.

i know people have heard this before a thousand times ("they'll eventually come after our dogs"), but there were laws put into place to make sure the animals on the Lacey Act had (at least somewhat) justifiable reason to be on it. if this passes, the government doesn't have to give any reason to add another animal to it. they just will. we are slowly being stripped of our rights. not our privileges, but our RIGHTS to keep our pets. this is how they do it, they dont take them all at once, because that would cause uproar. they do it little by little and as secretly as possible.

Done. Ugh it makes me feel so mad that people want to take our pets, hobbies, and businesses away without any knowledge on the species.

Submitted....

This government is slowly turning into a dictatorship and it is disgusting. What ever happened to "We the people"? They have time to listen to these BS laws that strip of us of our rights but have yet to address the true problems in this country.

Email sent, and to my rep also.

This needs to be reposted everyday.

or we can continue to bump it to the top and at least keep it on the front page. if everyone that filled it out would just type "done"

I did it. I agree should be at the top of the page everyday.

Done and you need to mellow out bro. Ain't know one going to stop the BPs and Boas they want the giants gone which I don't blame them. Bulldogs?? really? Dalmatians any one?

The government actually needs to settle down while Im at it and just make it so you need a permit to own and care for a giant snake. To get the permit you have to go thru a screening just like how you buy a handgun. Both sides happy no more giants destroying the system down south after we wipe them all out.

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Originally Posted by BTennant

Done and you need to mellow out bro. Ain't know one going to stop the BPs and Boas they want the giants gone which I don't blame them.

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that's why the boa constrictor is on the same list as the retics right now being proposed to add to the Lacey Act. perhaps you should un-mellow out, bro. then things might get done.

the mellowed out attitude is what got us here in the first place.

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Originally Posted by BTennant

The government actually needs to settle down while Im at it and just make it so you need a permit to own and care for a giant snake. To get the permit you have to go thru a screening just like how you buy a handgun. Both sides happy no more giants destroying the system down south after we wipe them all out.

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This would be a system I would agree to however it's easily abused. In FL you need a permit to own a retic and it's insanely hard to get one. Not as simple as want one, can provide for one, and have everything spot on. They don't want them in the state and that is one way they are trying to regulate it.

Did this earlier today.

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Originally Posted by anya

did this earlier today.

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x2

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

or we can continue to bump it to the top and at least keep it on the front page. if everyone that filled it out would just type "done"

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Done!

Good post but wrong forum. I'll be moving this to the Laws and Legislation forum.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Good post but wrong forum. I'll be moving this to the Laws and Legislation forum.

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understandable. i thought someone might move it. i just figured it was still relevant to ball python breeding and that forum generates a lot more traffic, and being that we only have to the end of the month to speak up on the issue, the more traffic the better.

I think we need to alert the real news media about this- they may be interested on the impact if FWS banned popular pets like dogs, cats, or agriculturally signifigant animals.

Edit: By the way, I like the name of this thread; it's more attention grabbing.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

understandable. i thought someone might move it. i just figured it was still relevant to ball python breeding and that forum generates a lot more traffic, and being that we only have to the end of the month to speak up on the issue, the more traffic the better.

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Quite understandable, but actually I believe that just as many people READ this forum but not as many POST in it so this will stay on the front page longer and so will potentially reach more people.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

that's why the boa constrictor is on the same list as the retics right now being proposed to add to the Lacey Act. perhaps you should un-mellow out, bro. then things might get done.

the mellowed out attitude is what got us here in the first place.

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We cant stop anything if they want it banned guess what...it's going to happen. Can you voice your opinion on it? Sure you can, is it going to help probably not but voices still should be heard. I'm not going to un mellow cause I'm going to keep my snakes and do what I want regardless. Theres worse things happening in the USA like child starvation and how we donate money to starving children in other countries and dont feed our own.

I was just trying to point the mellow thing out to you because you made 2 posts on the same thing.
The reptile industry is a billion dollar industry a year, boas and BPs won't make it on that list and pass. Giants need to stay on that list though, this is what caused all this mess in the first place for everyone. Irresponsible people letting them go when they get to big is what caused this problem not a down to earth mellow attitude. Then again I don't think the responsible giant owners should be punished.

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Originally Posted by BTennant

We cant stop anything if they want it banned guess what...it's going to happen. Can you voice your opinion on it? Sure you can, is it going to help probably not but voices still should be heard. I'm not going to un mellow cause I'm going to keep my snakes and do what I want regardless. Theres worse things happening in the USA like child starvation and how we donate money to starving children in other countries and dont feed our own.

I was just trying to point the mellow thing out to you because you made 2 posts on the same thing.
The reptile industry is a billion dollar industry a year, boas and BPs won't make it on that list and pass. Giants need to stay on that list though, this is what caused all this mess in the first place for everyone. Irresponsible people letting them go when they get to big is what caused this problem not a down to earth mellow attitude. Then again I don't think the responsible giant owners should be punished.

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You can't possibly think because it's such a big industry it won't get banned/restricted? You give them an inch and they'll take a foot. I can guarantee the people signing these bills aren't going to do their snake research. The word "python" makes people think giant restricting potential man killer snake. When people ask what snake I have and I say ball python. They're like "oh a big one. Be careful!" and then I get told that stupid myth about a pet python sizing up it's owner to eat it. :rolleyes: To think they won't ban ball pythons or boas because they make a group of people money is taking a big gamble. There are a lot of pitt breeders and show-ers. Didn't stop the breed bans. There are over 100 bully breeds and they all get labeled pitt bull by the unknowing public. There have been attacks/accidents involving a bully breed that is NOT a pitt bull and the pit bulls take the blame and bad publicity. The uneducated aren't going to know the difference between a ball python and a retic. You can't expect them to not venture into banning all constricting snakes just because they make people money. The thing here is we are fighting against ignorance.

Emails sent.

Done - and INCLUDED printing my letter to physically mail.

Folks - please don't neglect this important step as well. Nothing makes quite an impact as tangible, physical letters, especially in mass!

Done. More ridiculous laws that most likely will pass.

As a gun owner, in California, trust me I know!


0.1.0 Normal Ball Python
0.1.0 Columbian B.C.I. 2013
1.0.0 EBV Red Group Pastel Hypo Jungle B.C.I. 2013

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Originally Posted by BTennant

The reptile industry is a billion dollar industry a year, boas and BPs won't make it on that list and pass.

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1) A billion dollar industry is nothing when compared to the overall US economy. Also, reptile sales are typically run in the gray market, transactions are cash and carry in many cases, and very few hobbiests declare and pay taxes if they make a profit in a particular year. FedGov won't see a downside - as in, loss of revenue - to generating more regulations on it.
2) I'm licensed as a firearm manufacturer, so I'm working in a $33 billion industry that generates just over $5 billion just in tax revenue for the federal and state governments per http://nssf.org/impact/. I spend several hours each week engaged in activities solely to cover my rear end and keep me out of federal prison, time that would be much better spent doing something productive like cleaning up after my BP's.

Done, it seems that every year they continue to try and take our pets away. These are the only things the government is trying to take away either. I am getting sick of all my rights being violated.

Are should be aren't.

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Originally Posted by BTennant

We cant stop anything if they want it banned guess what...it's going to happen. Can you voice your opinion on it? Sure you can, is it going to help probably not but voices still should be heard. I'm not going to un mellow cause I'm going to keep my snakes and do what I want regardless. Theres worse things happening in the USA like child starvation and how we donate money to starving children in other countries and dont feed our own.

I was just trying to point the mellow thing out to you because you made 2 posts on the same thing.
The reptile industry is a billion dollar industry a year, boas and BPs won't make it on that list and pass. Giants need to stay on that list though, this is what caused all this mess in the first place for everyone. Irresponsible people letting them go when they get to big is what caused this problem not a down to earth mellow attitude. Then again I don't think the responsible giant owners should be punished.

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Well, everyone go home this guy's confident it won't happen. Good game, thanks for playing.

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Just to specify the "giants" that are in the Lacy Act are there for everyone, not just bad owners. The reason they are on the list is because most people weren't concerned since it didn't effect what they kept. Not enough people talked about it, not enough people stood up and said no. If you think it won't happen to the less threatening species you have got to be kidding me. They have to start somewhere. There are bad ball python owners out there. If this passes they do not need a reason to put a species on the list.

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Done and you need to mellow out bro. Ain't know one going to stop the BPs and Boas they want the giants gone which I don't blame them. Bulldogs?? really? Dalmatians any one?

The government actually needs to settle down while Im at it and just make it so you need a permit to own and care for a giant snake. To get the permit you have to go thru a screening just like how you buy a handgun. Both sides happy no more giants destroying the system down south after we wipe them all out.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BTennant

We cant stop anything if they want it banned guess what...it's going to happen. Can you voice your opinion on it? Sure you can, is it going to help probably not but voices still should be heard. I'm not going to un mellow cause I'm going to keep my snakes and do what I want regardless. Theres worse things happening in the USA like child starvation and how we donate money to starving children in other countries and dont feed our own.

I was just trying to point the mellow thing out to you because you made 2 posts on the same thing.
The reptile industry is a billion dollar industry a year, boas and BPs won't make it on that list and pass. Giants need to stay on that list though, this is what caused all this mess in the first place for everyone. Irresponsible people letting them go when they get to big is what caused this problem not a down to earth mellow attitude. Then again I don't think the responsible giant owners should be punished.

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Wow, I hate to say this but sometimes ignorance is a bliss maybe you need to educate yourself on the subject and the adversary we are dealing with here.

Do you remember HR669? I do along with other bills and amendments since then? I do because along with other herpers I did my best to fight those bills and guess what? HR669 and others were defeated, not defeated because people sat back waited for those to go away but because people voiced their opinion.

You think your precious BP will never make it on any list, think about it again, HR669 was about making it illegal to own any exotic animal, yep you read that right, your BP, Hamster, Gold Fish, Parakeet, Sulcata etc, every single one of them would have been affected by that bill.

Now things have changed but it is not because the primary goal has changed it’s because USFW and people pushing those bills decided that the divide and conquer strategy was the best way to go about this, that banning all exotics all at once was impossible so instead they came up with other bills and amendments including the current one.

The easiest way to start was for them to target giant snakes "let’s put the big snakes on a list making them impossible to transport or sell across states, no one will care they're just big snakes" heck you are the perfect example of that from your post, exactly the type of reaction that they were hoping for to move to step two and then three and one day back to the original idea of banning all exotics.

This is the big picture waiting for you around the corner if you just sit back and let it happen so YOU need to wake up.

Nothing like an admin to light a fire.

Gonna send a hand written letter to my rep today too.

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Done!!

I can't believe this. "Freedom and justice for some" should be the new tagline of America.

I love how you stated ignorance is a bliss yet who is being ignorant in the topic ranting and raving? Did I ever say that you shouldn't stand up for your self? I signed the form, maybe you should go back and read what my original post said. It was more to address the OP for making 2 posts on the same thing and getting bent out of shape. Maybe I could have worded it better, I mean it was late at night. Your entitled to your opinion and I am with my opinion of what I think the out come is going to be.

Now I do think ignorance is trying to bash some one in a rant about there opinion. I'm grown and I don't need a debate with forum warriors on the Internet. ( This isnt directed at you deborah) I'm going to stay out of this topic after this post since this is a one sided coin. Enjoy :gj:

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Originally Posted by BTennant

I love how you stated ignorance is a bliss yet who is being ignorant in the topic ranting and raving? Did I ever say that you shouldn't stand up for your self? I signed the form, maybe you should go back and read what my original post said. It was more to address the OP for making 2 posts on the same thing and getting bent out of shape. Maybe I could have worded it better, I mean it was late at night. Your entitled to your opinion and I am with my opinion of what I think the out come is going to be.

Now I do think ignorance is trying to bash some one in a rant about there opinion. I'm grown and I don't need a debate with forum warriors on the Internet. ( This isnt directed at you deborah) I'm going to stay out of this topic after this post since this is a one sided coin. Enjoy :gj:

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There's two sides, pro and anti. Either you support them banning our pets or you are against them banning our pets. There is only one course of action, reach out and be heard.

You said we shouldn't reach out and be heard, loudly, and that a simple prepared email is all that's needed. You're wrong and you're borderline pro ban.

So, I see your tune has changed. Again, nothing like a mod to light a fire.

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I've been contacting everyone I can, and in any way that I can. Even recruited a few non herper friends to submit comments as well.

And i thought we live in america.................

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Originally Posted by BTennant

Done and you need to mellow out bro. Ain't know one going to stop the BPs and Boas they want the giants gone which I don't blame them. Bulldogs?? really? Dalmatians any one?

The government actually needs to settle down while Im at it and just make it so you need a permit to own and care for a giant snake. To get the permit you have to go thru a screening just like how you buy a handgun. Both sides happy no more giants destroying the system down south after we wipe them all out.

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And people wonder why we continue to get our butts handed to us over and over and over again....Its sad really this industry still has so much growing to do to be better prepared to put up a better defense for laws like this sadly we will never get anywhere with attitudes like this and they are becoming more and more common. Go ahead and let them take us (large constrictor keepers) and continue to have a false sense of security they will be coming for you soon enough.

I just had to add, I don't know how anyone can say they won't take the Boas. They are proposing to add Boas to the Lacey Act right now, as well as Retics and several species of Anaconda. If this passes, it just makes it easy for them.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

I just had to add, I don't know how anyone can say they won't take the Boas. They are proposing to add Boas to the Lacey Act right now, as well as Retics and several species of Anaconda. If this passes, it just makes it easy for them.

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my point exactly. they start with the biggest snakes and work their way down. first burms and anacondas, then retics and boas.. what does everyone think comes after boas? nothing? they're just going to stop? does it look like they're stopping now? then it's the carpets and the balls. i can go to my local petco for crying out loud and buy a boa right now if i wanted. that shows you how common boas are and they are trying to add that to the Lacey Act. to think the next logical step isn't our balls (pun 100% intended) is CHOOSING to be ignorant.

to turn your head and not care when you see the larger snakes getting banned simply because you don't own one or plan to, is downright selfish. i own a boa and a retic. i spend every day with them. they are part of my family. is your 200 pound mastiff any less of family than my 5 pound chihuahua? no, but if they were trying to ban your mastiff you better believe i would be on your side. why? because i would HATE to have my dogs banned. you're either a dog lover or you're not. you're either a snake lover or you're not. just because you prefer one species and they are targeting another, it's irrelevant to you?

BPs are not too big to fall. Anyone that thinks so is mistaken and just needs to remember HR 669 and the HSUS' stated intent to ban the sale of ALL reptiles as pets ...

"Finally, we recommend that [government] regulatory bodies put an end to the reptile trade: State and local authorities are encouraged to ban the commercial collection of reptiles to protect wild populations of reptiles and ban the sale of reptiles as pets to the general public in order to protect human health..."
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn%20Uto...cornsnakes.htm

Done...this makes me sick on levels beyond just reptile keeping

Thanks for the links. I sent a few emails off. Let's hope for the best!

The gist of what I said is the same thing I say about sex ed. We don't need to fight this fun hobby people have. We need to fight ignorance! It's just ignorant for people to keep these animals dangerously or let them loose...so it's important to make reptile keepers more informed.

Update from USARKS Facebook:

USARK Press Release: Earlier this week, USARK President Phil Goss traveled to Washington, D.C. to meet with House and Senate Congressional offices to express our opposition to the latest attempt by the USFWS to change the rules in support of their misguided efforts to list the remaining five constrictor snake species as injurious under the Lacey Act. Working in conjunction with the House Natural Resources Committee, USARK was instrumental in gaining the signatures of key comm...ittee members on a letter to FWS Director Dan Ashe, opposing the categorical exclusion waiver for Lacey Act listings (view the letter HERE). In addition, while in Washington, USARK and PIJAC joined forces to meet with the Small Business Office of Advocacy (SBA) to develop and coordinate a strategy to fight back against this blatant USFWS attempt to circumvent the rules. As a result of this strategy session with SBA, USARK, through its Washington, D.C. legal and legislative counsel, has been in touch with the Office of Management and Budget to request their review of the proposed waiver and the impact it will have on small breeders, hobbyists, businesses and pet owners across the country.

More details concerning USARK's latest visit to Washington will be shared soon. Right now, of utmost importance is for the herp community to use the two USARK Action Alerts below and share them. There are two issues demanding immediate action. The first alert addresses a USFWS proposal to list any species as injurious without full due process afforded under the law (i.e. no scientific support, no research, no economic impact study, etc.). This categorical exclusion affects a huge portion of the pet community (reptiles, amphibians, fish, birds, small mammals, etc.). The second alert concerns a push by anti-pet groups to add 5 species of snakes (including all boa constrictors and reticulated pythons) as injurious, which would make interstate commerce, interstate transportation and importation all illegal. Anti-pet groups want no pets. Big snakes are just their first target. Support the entire herp community and stop them now! Share these alerts with all pet owners. All information can be found at the links below. The time to act is now, Reptile Nation!

Action Alert 1: http://usark.org/action-alert/usfws-...l-exclusion-2/

Action Alert 2: http://usark.org/press-releases/acti...-as-injurious/

Is there something European snake keepers can do? I assume we don't have any influence whatsoever in the Lacey Act. Or am I wrong? :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by Blubb

Is there something European snake keepers can do? I assume we don't have any influence whatsoever in the Lacey Act. Or am I wrong? :confuzd:

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spread the word to any americans you know or can get in touch with.

Done and done. :mad:

It looks like they are trying to add ALL Amphibians to the list too!

So for anyone who thinks this doesn't involve them or that they are only going after the Large Constrictors think again!!!
This involves all of us no matter what you keep!