Check Out What We Just Hatched!

So our first clutch of the season has finally hatched. The breeding was a Pastel Lesser & Champagne to a Normal female. Out of this clutch we got 8 eggs, with 1 going bad. The remaining 7 went full term and hatched just the other day. Of the 7 eggs, we got 1 normal, 2 pastels, 3 champagnes, and this guy. We are not sure what he is. We showed a large breeder friend of ours a picture of it while it was inside the egg and he said Pastel Lesser paradox. Now that it is out of the egg, he is saying Champagne paradox. We THINK it was somehow fertilized by two separate sperm cells from each father (which is supposed to be impossible). We are not claiming it is a dual sired baby, but think that it MAY be one. You can clearly see both the Pastel Lesser and Champagne in him. Regardless of what he turns out to be, he is still pretty fricking cool. What do you guys think?

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1835.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1836.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1832.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1839.jpg

I dont have a clue what it is, but its awesome looking!

Chimera possibly? It's not unheard of for "twins" to have different sires, and chimerism could occur between half-sibling twins. Theoretically.

Anybody with more experience with twins and/or chimeras feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, but when you take Occam's Razor to the situation this makes sense to me.

Anyway, I'm super jealous over here! What a hot little baby! Feel free to send it my way if you don't want it :D

holy smokes :O:gj:

Very nice hatchling you have there guess its a keeper.

One more thing to hope for from dual-sired clutches :D! Very nice!

very interesting. i'd be holding onto this as well. i don't know much about chimeras, but from what i do know, i think it would either have one or the other's (champagne or pastel lesser's) sex organs. it would definitely be interesting to see what he produces, and since it's a male you shouldn't have to wait too long. that is, of course, if that's actually what this little guy is. congrats.

He is too awesome!! That first pic almost looks like two different snakes are balled up together

That is amazing!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

Chimera possibly? It's not unheard of for "twins" to have different sires, and chimerism could occur between half-sibling twins. Theoretically.

Anybody with more experience with twins and/or chimeras feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, but when you take Occam's Razor to the situation this makes sense to me.

Anyway, I'm super jealous over here! What a hot little baby! Feel free to send it my way if you don't want it :D

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This was my exact thought. Chimerism happens in animals and in humans! I remember a court case where the state was trying to take a mother's child away because it showed that she wasn't the mother. However, upon further investigation, she had 2 different sets of DNA and 2 of her kids took one set and the other child took the other set. Seems plausable that this could have happened. A set of twins (one champagne, one lesser/pastel lesser) fused VERY early on (within days of fertilization) and it hatched out a visible chimera!

I would DEFINITELY hold that boy back and breed it to a normal. If it is a chimera, you should get champagnes and lessers. That will be a cool project to watch!

Id def be holding on to that one. Gorgeous.

I'm gonna x4 on chimerism. Super-cool, regardless. Interesting that the pattern is Paradoxical, imo.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I would DEFINITELY hold that boy back and breed it to a normal. If it is a chimera, you should get champagnes and lessers. That will be a cool project to watch!

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from my VERY limited understanding of chimeras, the sex organs of a chimera will either be one or the other genetically. as in, if this snake really is a chimera of a champagne and a pastel lesser, the sex organs will either be from one or the other. so when it breeds, genetically it will either act as a champagne or a pastel lesser, not a pastel lesser champagne (the triple combo), so it won't be able to produce champagnes AND lessers. if it has the champagne sex organs, it'll be able to produce champs or normals. if it has the pastel lesser sex organs, it'll be able to produce pastels, lessers, pastel lessers, and normals. but it won't be able to produce pastel champagnes or lesser champagnes or anything like that.. if that makes sense?

Only time and breeding can reveal what is going on here. Can't wait till he gains a few grams to see how he changes!

Wow! That's awesome!

Cool, cool! :D

Seriously cool! Keep us updated with his progress :O

That guy is really cool!

Voting chimerism as well! Such an awesome snake... would love to hatch something crazy like that over here.

Neither words, nor emoticons suffice... More pics plleeaaaseee. Congrats on the awesome hatchling!

Cant wait to see the progress with this little one!

Any pics of the parents of this little one? Congrats on the babies.

WOW!:O

I would have to agree that it looks like it could be chimerism!

Have you thought about looking for a herpetological researcher that may be able to do genetic testing and figure out what's going on?

Here's the Champ father
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...5/d95c9144.jpg

Here's the Pastel Lesser father:
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...5/427c2e42.jpg

And here are a few more crappy pics of the baby:
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1845.jpg
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1848.jpg
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1847.jpg
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_1849.jpg

WOW, very nice, I would definitely hold him back, and see what he can do in the future.

My question, are you sure the Champagne is ONLY Champagne?

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Originally Posted by MikeM75

WOW, very nice, I would definitely hold him back, and see what he can do in the future.

My question, are you sure the Champagne is ONLY Champagne?

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I thought that too The only problem with that explanation is that the champagne gene can mask or hide the butter gene to a pretty good extent but you can always tell a pastel champagne and the baby clearly has the pastel gene as well so that theory is a no go as well.

what a little freak show. lol you definitely have a one of a kind animal. i love it.

Holy cow that is awesome!

Very cool....congrats.

This is what makes this hobby so much fun!

Fan-freaking-tastic!!! Hold back!!! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeM75

WOW, very nice, I would definitely hold him back, and see what he can do in the future.

My question, are you sure the Champagne is ONLY Champagne?

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As of now I'm pretty sure he is only Champagne. He looks like a normal Champagne. A Butter Champagne is way different than him, even though the Champagne hides the Butter pretty well.

Wow!!! No words can describe that amazingly exceptional animal!! Cant wait to see what it looks like after a few sheds!!

sent from my incubator

That is awesome! congrats on the amazing little one. :O

Never let min go is my first thought, and also I think it's a chimera too. I don't know how it works on snakes, but I think that if there is a human chimera then under neon/black light then you can actually see a line where the two different dna meets up. In the case with the female who had two dna sets it was inside of her, so no good luck for her I guess. I still would have taken a black light bulb over that snake, just to see xD

Man ,that line over his head is just so freaking cool. The whole snake is cool. Man o.o awesome.

The little guy just shed out and now we can see his true colors better. I am very impressed with him.

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...B47989ECD6.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...B48661FAAB.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/a...B49BB9CA81.jpg

Sooooo flippin kewl. Looks like someone glued pieces from two different snakes together. Id be tickled to death to have produced something so unique.

sent from my incubator

looks even better after the shed. thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the comments guys. We are REALLY lovin' the little white patches on him.

VERY cool!!

The orange line across his head is my FAVE!! :O

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Originally Posted by M&NSnakeDen

The orange line across his head is my FAVE!! :O

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Agreed! Gosh that's a cool little guy

Any updates on this or new pictures you might feel like sharing?

thanks!

That snake is awesome! I love it.

Ok. This is the coolest snake I've ever seen!! He has to be a pastel lesser champ!! The orange spots are his inner champagne shining through lol. You just got a snake that was confused on what he wanted to be so he said heck I'll be everything and be the freaking coolest snake ever!! He clearly has succeeded! Lol! A HUGE congrats to you on producing him. Absolutely stunning! Can't wait to see those colors when he gets some good weight on him! Definitely keep us updated!!


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This boy worth more than the derma ball of bhb..... Insane looking... As well not sure he can reproduce his phenotype...

You are so lucky....

Wow just noticing this thread!

He really does look like both a champagne and a lesser

Wow, what a funky looking snake! Oh, but in a good way of course haha. Please keep us updated as he grows!! Super cool looking and definitely will make an interesting breeder down the road!!

Just...wow.

Any new pics?