Ex wife not wanting me to see my son because of her fear of snakes

I have recently aquired 57 snakes In a year ( 1 Burmese, 6 boas, 2 carpets, 1 cal king, 2 corns, and 45 balls) anyways my ex wife is not wanting me to have my son now because of my collection because of her fear and when I do have him he tells me he's not scared and wants to hold his certain one and let's her around his neck and shows her to his friends when he has friends over and has got me to show them at his school. She says he is scared of them but just will not say anything and has nightmares about them but when I asked him he says otherwise. The divorce papers say I get him every other weekend and she says that if he is scared I'm not making him go but in Tennessee a child isn't old enough to make his own decisions but if he has nightmares about them and then there is grounds for my rightsit to to be removed but he tells me he likes all of them except the Burmese But doesn't have nightmares about it . So what I was wanting to know if anyone else has been in this situation and what actions should I do. I thought about getting dcs to inspect everything and give me a statement saying there is no reason that he should be removed, and getting the health dept and a vet to state they are in clean health and in suitable living conditions and show it to the judge. I don't want to loose my son that's a definite but there again I don't want to get rid of what I have aquired.

Any help would be greatly appreciated


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A sit down with mom and son is the best option. See if his thoughts are the same with both of you in the room. Hopefully that will help in decide what actions need to be taken next. Best of luck to you.

I'm only 22 and new to snakes but I would make sure that their cages are escape-proof as possible, or even locked depending on your set up, then offer to show your ex the measures you're taking to keep your son and yourself safe. Do you keep all the snakes on a separate room? If so, I'd consider putting a lock on the door, you wouldn't necessarily have to use it all the time but it could help put her mind at ease. These are just a few simple things that can help show you're responsible.

Obviously I don't know your family but it is possible your son might not want to tell you because hes nervous or doesn't want to make you upset/feel bad. Have you thought about getting a book or video or taking him to see a reptile show? Maybe more knowledge about the animals will help settle everyones stomachs.


I think it would be a good idea to have some kind of professional come see how you care for your snakes, if you do it before any court drama pops up it could give you more of a benefit. Best of luck.

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Originally Posted by bradthebanker

The divorce papers say I get him every other weekend and she says that if he is scared I'm not making him go...

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1) If your son really is scared then it would be evident in his reaction to the snakes. Most likely you'd have to drag him kicking and screaming over to them. If he's showing them off to his friends and wanting you to take the snakes to school, he's not scared.
2) Your ex wife does not get to ignore a court order and deny you visitation time with your son just because she is scared of snakes. Make it very clear that while you are sensitive to her concerns and your son will be supervised at all times, if she violates the order you do have the option of filing for contempt.

Listen man, Family > Snakes. You got divorced to her and it seems like shes already being grimy and putting into his head about snakes blah blah. For one shes uneducated, Also how old is your son? I know I have two sons my self one is 5 the other 3. I know I wont be getting anything larger then Balls till they are both grown. I do agree with your wife on the big snakes like the boas and especially that burm.

Also before any one jumps the ship and crys about my post, My wife had a 18ft Burm when she was growing up and her sisters and brother use to feed it rabbits. She told me it was about the stupidest thing that her mom and dad could have had in the house. Both my wife and I have both grown up in homes with reptiles and we personally don't feel comfortable with large snakes or herps in the house yet. I want a Nile and a boa but hey I'm not taking chances so I'm going to wait.

I am happy to hear when children are interested reptiles. You need to educate your ex as well, ask her if she would be more comfortable if you got rid of that burm I bet it will solve a lot of the problems. Hope this helps.

Its seems your ex is using the snakes to get between you and your son. He is still your son and if you have snakes and he likes them and its safe, there is nothing she can do. Id tell her tell here to kiss off and you will will raise your son the way you want to.

This doesn't sound like it is about your son from your ex's side. Might not even be about her fear of snakes.
It is control. Brace yourself you have many years of having to deal with her ahead of you.

Is there any chance that you can apply to the court to have the access agreement modified?
In this day and age lawyers should be disbarred for not advising clients to have "access will be enforced by peace officers if required" on every agreement.
Then your access would be guaranteed and all without any possible conflict in front of the child and, she would be required to prove in court that you home has in some way become unfit.

She's trying to get back at you any way she can. This is one of many things you'll have to deal with. Who knows how she's rationalizing it in her head?! All she knows is you like the snakes and your son, so forcing you to choose between the two is gunna bother you. That's her main goal. Remember, the leading cause of divorce is marriage! :)

Does that mean youre never going to get married, Mike? :p

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She cannot refuse visitation. She'd have to take you to court and would either have to have him tell the court that he doesn't want to come see you because of the snakes or telling a therapist that they scare him. Even then, she'd be fighting an uphill battle. It's very hard to get visitation removed. My nephew's dad is (allegedly *rolls eyes*) molesting him and the best we've been able to get so far is supervised visitation and that's with therapists, DHR, and other groups supporting us. So "he keeps snakes" is going to be a really weak reason to take away visitation. And if you put locks on the cages--especially the big ones, which IMO you should have regardless if he's a small child--and have them in a locked room, it's highly unlikely that the judge would do anything but roll his eyes.
I have a hard time believing he's afraid of them if he puts it around his neck. I love my snakes and enjoy handling them and I'm still not ok with putting them around my neck. Nobody who's truly afraid of it is going to let one that close to their face.

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Does that mean youre never going to get married, Mike? :p

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Spot on, miss crystal! :gj:

My son is 5years old and the other reason she says he doesn't want to come to my house is because he has nightmares about them. And I don't want to offend anyone in this forum when I say she is putting him in way more harm than I am by making him breath second handed smoke from her cigarettes and I have tried to tell her the most dangerous thing in this world is one thing that we all take for granted "driving" kills more people in one day than any snake in any of our lifetimes venomous or constrictor.
And some of y'all may be right I will have to get rid of the Burmese or at least relocate him to a different place till he is more comfortable around it. A lawyer that is going to represent me hates them to but asked me if any of them had human fatalities and he only ones in 23 years is Burmese, boa constrictors, rock pythons, and relics of the constrictor family



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Originally Posted by bcr229

1) If your son really is scared then it would be evident in his reaction to the snakes. Most likely you'd have to drag him kicking and screaming over to them. If he's showing them off to his friends and wanting you to take the snakes to school, he's not scared.
2) Your ex wife does not get to ignore a court order and deny you visitation time with your son just because she is scared of snakes. Make it very clear that while you are sensitive to her concerns and your son will be supervised at all times, if she violates the order you do have the option of filing for contempt.

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^^ I second that.
Also I agree with the suggestion to sit your son in the room with both of you and ask.. Either he's lying to mom to appease her, which I kind of doubt, or she's making stuff up to be a royal B. It sounds like he enjoys the snakes... and if he says so in front of the two of you.. what's she gonna do, deny it?

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Originally Posted by DestinyLynette

and if he says so in front of the two of you.. what's she gonna do, deny it?

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Yes... And say he's just a kid so he doesn't know what he's talking about and blah blah blah lie lie lie.

People are wackjobs when it comes to divorces. I say "people" so as not to discriminate between men and women. In this case the ex sounds psycho but guys can be just as big of jerks.

I think in the state of tn she can deny me if she feels that he is harms way and I have to let a court decide that he's safe


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Its so messed up how our laws automatically dictate "oh the kid should always stay with the mom firstly". Second hand smoke is only a million times more dangerous than a ball python. It's disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Yes... And say he's just a kid so he doesn't know what he's talking about and blah blah blah lie lie lie.

People are wackjobs when it comes to divorces. I say "people" so as not to discriminate between men and women. In this case the ex sounds psycho but guys can be just as big of jerks.

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That's a weak defense at best though. "No, no, he's lying to appease you... see.. he's hiding terror as he's cuddling that snake and going out of his way to have you show them off"
Lol. People can be so ridiculous.

And ditto with your other statement about it being stupid to automatically say the moms should always have the kids. I know a guy whose wife always pawns the kids off with people while she goes off and does stuff but throws a fit about them staying with him.. Sad

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Originally Posted by DestinyLynette

That's a weak defense at best though. "No, no, he's lying to appease you... see.. he's hiding terror as he's cuddling that snake and going out of his way to have you show them off"
Lol. People can be so ridiculous.

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A weak defense is still a defense, and that's all she needs. Checkout the '06 colts. They still won the super bowl and their D sucked. They won bc they had a good offense. The offense in this case will be his ex's lawyer who gets off on sucking as much money as possible out of him and pumping in as much unhappiness as she possibly can cause him. This process will be dragged out for as long as possible to maximize her own profits.

Go over your decree and see exactly what it says. If it doesn't say she can do something, like keep your kid from you because she says he says something, she probably can't. Point that out to her. Nicely or there will probably be a fight.

If the kid is 5, don't make him decide in front of you guys whether or not he likes snakes. It's not something his little mind can really understand. Take him out of the equation completely. You're his parents, Parent.

Keep your cool when she does not. Right or wrong, it makes you look like the better parent. Arm yourself with knowledge. Both of your reptiles and their care, and the crap she's going to throw at you that she learns from peta and hsus and geniuses like melissa craplan. Be prepared to logically, correctly, and calmly refute her supposed facts.

Document by video and in writing anything you can. Show the boy with the snakes, but I would avoid shots with snakes around the boys neck. We know it's safe, but it looks really bad to those who don't know any better.

Be better prepared than she is if you need to back up what you say. Stay calm and keep your kid out of it.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Be better prepared than she is if you need to back up what you say. Stay calm and keep your kid out of it.

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He can try until he's blue in the face to keep it civil and logical. If she wants to make it difficult, she'll be able to with the help of her lawyer. They'll side with the mom because society dictates that it's the right thing to do in this situation.

You said you did presentations with the snakes at his school, right? That's a BIG one. If a school has said the way you transport and handle the animals is safe, that's a pretty important thing.

Seconding what several people have said about the burm though. I seriously doubt the way you're keeping it is dangerous to the kid, but the legal system doesn't like big snakes. If you did keep it, you might have to keep it in a separate room with a lock on the door and another on the enclosure. My family has had some experience with the whole custody thing, and it probably wouldn't be a good idea to have the big snake in a room that your child thinks of as fun/safe to go into otherwise even if he's always supervised.

If you son is truly scared of snakes, it doesn't matter HOW much he wants to please Daddy, he wouldn't go near them. Let alone carry them, wrap them around his neck, etc.

It sounds like your ex might be jealous, and angry. She can't just take your rights away without going to court and dealing with a judge.

You've never answered if your cages are secure or if they're in a separate room. If you can get them they're own room, with a locked door, I can't see how she could complain that he's in danger.

I wouldn't give up your burm either, as long as its in a secure, locked, escape-proof enclosure. You say you're son is a bit weary of it, so I doubt you bring it out in front of him.

You guys are looking at this with ignorant and biased opinions lol.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

If you son is truly scared of snakes, it doesn't matter HOW much he wants to please Daddy, he wouldn't go near them. Let alone carry them, wrap them around his neck, etc.

It sounds like your ex might be jealous, and angry. She can't just take your rights away without going to court and dealing with a judge.

You've never answered if your cages are secure or if they're in a separate room. If you can get them they're own room, with a locked door, I can't see how she could complain that he's in danger.

I wouldn't give up your burm either, as long as its in a secure, locked, escape-proof enclosure. You say you're son is a bit weary of it, so I doubt you bring it out in front of him.

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Yes I keep them in a seperate heated, humidifier, and in racks except the but he is in a glass aquarium with a lockable sliding lid, ANd most importantly THE ROOM HAS A LOCK ON IT (keyed entry lock)


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Burm not but. Lol


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Originally Posted by Mike41793

You guys are looking at this with ignorant and biased opinions lol.

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IMO its just like a gun rack. I mean, if it's always locked and in a separate locked room, what's the big deal?

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

IMO its just like a gun rack. I mean, if it's always locked and in a separate locked room, what's the big deal?

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I think he might be referring to the states(meaning any western government, not America in particular) habit of favouring mothers in custody issues, refusing to prosecute mothers breaking court orders, etc.

Logic ceases at the steps to any family court.

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Originally Posted by bradthebanker

Yes I keep them in a seperate heated, humidifier, and in racks except the but he is in a glass aquarium with a lockable sliding lid, ANd most importantly THE ROOM HAS A LOCK ON IT (keyed entry lock)


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There you go. You're doing it right.

This is a visitation issue, not a custody issue. It's much, much harder to lose visitation than it is to lose custody. At least in AL, you have to get the courts involved BEFORE you can keep a kid from the visiting parent, even if it's due to safety reasons. If she's not involving at least DHR, she can't keep him from you. The burden of proof lies on the parent claiming unsafe conditions.

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Originally Posted by Parysa

There you go. You're doing it right.

This is a visitation issue, not a custody issue. It's much, much harder to lose visitation than it is to lose custody. At least in AL, you have to get the courts involved BEFORE you can keep a kid from the visiting parent, even if it's due to safety reasons. If she's not involving at least DHR, she can't keep him from you. The burden of proof lies on the parent claiming unsafe conditions.

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Pretty sure it's the same here, she can't just decide on her own (no parent can) that the other parent is not going to be allowed their time with the child, if they do then it's most likely contempt of court.

To the OP... Obviously you know you need to talk with your lawyer, I would suggest setting up a meeting in your house with your child, your lawyer and DCS (NOT the ex) and you try to keep back as much as possible so that the people from DCS can see your childs true feelings about the snakes without your influence.

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Originally Posted by rascal_rascal_99

To the OP... Obviously you know you need to talk with your lawyer, I would suggest setting up a meeting in your house with your child, your lawyer and DCS (NOT the ex) and you try to keep back as much as possible so that the people from DCS can see your childs true feelings about the snakes without your influence.

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No way would I bring DCS into my home, invited or not. People tend to be more prejudiced against snakes than firearms. A video of the OP's son handling his favorite snakes and being cool with it should be enough.

If your ex were to file papers with the Court stating that you have constrictors capable of killing your son and she is fearful of him going to your home, all it would take would be a Judge that has no real knowledge of snakes that gets info about them from television and you could easily end up with a Court order for you to have all visits with your son away from your home.
Also, IMO you would be making a terrible mistake in inviting State investigators into your home, whose only function is to look for and find things that are wrong with a home environment.
You better tiptoe around this issue.

If she does go that road, then they will most likely do a visit after having the ex fill their heads with idea's about all these evil scary animals her son is being forced to be around. I'm saying be proactive about it, go to dcs and have a talk with them, put their minds at ease about being around the animals, then arrange a time for them to see things themselves when you will be expecting them. The flip side to that, is if they decide to make a visit on their own, you get no notice until they're knocking on the door and it can happen at any time of the day or night. A video may help some, but the ex and her lawyer could easily say that he was forced to hold them and put on an act for the camera...testimony from dcs workers I don't doubt would carry a lot more weight to it and eliminate the "he made him act that way on camera" argument.

I would still follow the advice of your own lawyer before that of anyone on the internet, myself included. :)

I can't tell you how much, on a daily basis, people ask me if I'm going to get rid of my pythons after having children. Society's view on snakes and children is terrible. Its like they think that you're leaving your kid in the enclosure with your pythons while they are hungry. Everyone thinks that your four foot long ball python is going to strangle and eat your newborn. *rolls eyes* It's called responsibility. Unfortunately, your collection is huge. This is only unfortunate because of society's view on snakes. It looks bad to people who are not educated and familiar with reptiles and reptile care. try and educate them. make them know that you are doing everything in your power to reduce the risk of harm coming to your child.

You need to contact your lawyer and find out first of all if she is able to use the "he scared" defence to keep your son from coming to visit you.

As far a proving that your home is safe for children to be there with all the snakes I suggest that you again you talk to your lawyer, they may suggest that you have a safe home inspection with not only DCF but also the States Wildlife officer (they have the right letters behind their name to give the answers the DCF investigator may ask).

Until there is a determination by the courts I would not change anything connected to the visitation of your son. While he is in your care some home videos both with and without the animals would be great if he gets use to you filming him without the animals he will not think twice about it when you do so with the animal.

Some ex's have a way of talking to children and making them think things that they would not on their own.

Ok there are my 2-1/2 cents as a mom