Alright time to send this female to the belt factory...

This female is really frustrating me. This is her 3rd clutch and I'm sure this egg is dying because the baby is deformed. She always throws kinked and/or deformed babies, her last clutch was survivable but I had to give them away or sell them at a very reduced price because of minor tail kinks.

Is it possible that it's an issue with her? Do you think it will keep happening? Did I give her enough chances to call her defective? Do I sell her as non-breeder? I don't know! I honestly don't need her and need to start cutting back my normal herd.

She also laid a slug. She took last year off and is about 2,000 grams.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/20/ejuheby5.jpg

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I assume you've incubated other clutches that ended up with no kinks, in the same incubator from the same male?

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

I assume you've incubated other clutches that ended up with no kinks, in the same incubator from the same male?

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Yep.... :( I even put these two eggs in the same egg tub with another clutch just to be sure it wasn't me. The other clutch is happy and fine and going to hatch in about 10 days. This clutch is on day 20 if I'm thinking right. She almost always has some die at different times during incubation, all kinked when I open them up to see what happened.

Was it a different male for each clutch?

Three clutches in a row and you ruled out Incubation problems, sounds like she needs to retire. Unless of course you are only breeding her to a certain male that has not been tested on any other females which would require you to rule him out as well. I doubt the latter but just mentioning it.

I haven't had any other clutches die/go bad, or have any other kinked babies.

This is the least kinked baby she has thrown. You can see the little tail kink
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...eeding/060.jpg


Her, I got a deal on her years ago, I almost wonder if the person before had issues with her too.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ding/001-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by dr del

Was it a different male for each clutch?

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Hmm....no it wasn't. Same male every time. I have thrown other males at her, but she has only had pastel babies.

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Originally Posted by Jonas@Balls2TheWall

Three clutches in a row and you ruled out Incubation problems, sounds like she needs to retire. Unless of course you are only breeding her to a certain male that has not been tested on any other females which would require you to rule him out as well. I doubt the latter but just mentioning it.

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That's what I'm thinking... I'm getting to the point that I'm tired of dealing with her and I've tried 4 years now. I have thrown other males at her, but the pastel male is the only one that has ever sired her clutch. This pastel male has sired at least 8 other clutches all of which have been perfect.

Sounds like it is her, if you got a deal on her I'm sure the previous person had the same issues and was aware of it. So many shady people in this world today its hard to tell, its all about the money. Sorry to hear about your bad luck with her. If it was me I would retire her and keep her as a pet or sell her off as a pet and definitely not as a breeder.

Oh! Just thought of something else, it probably doesn't really matter, or maybe it does... She always lays super late. Day 40-53 after her pre-lay shed.

Sounds like the problem is with her. Did the prior owner sell this girl as proven, unproven, virgin, breeder, or ?

Day 53 after a pre lay is a mighty long time. There might be a correlation there. How bad were the babies who came out on day 40 compared to those who came out on day 53?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Sounds like the problem is with her. Did the prior owner sell this girl as proven, unproven, virgin, breeder, or ?

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I wish I could remember... possibly 'unproven'

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Originally Posted by BTennant

Sounds like it is her, if you got a deal on her I'm sure the previous person had the same issues and was aware of it. So many shady people in this world today its hard to tell, its all about the money. Sorry to hear about your bad luck with her. If it was me I would retire her and keep her as a pet or sell her off as a pet and definitely not as a breeder.

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That's what I'm thinking. Tell the buyer about the issues I have been having and sell her as a pet.

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Originally Posted by Jonas@Balls2TheWall

Day 53 after a pre lay is a mighty long time. There might be a correlation there. How bad were the babies who came out on day 40 compared to those who came out on day 53?

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Absolute train wrecks. However, I can't blame her entirely, I had humidity issues the first year I incubated. Second year the babies weren't so bad, this year...I guess we'll see if the remaining egg makes it.

Ah! I just remembered. Two years ago, her clutch laid 43 days after prelay (just checked my records) there was a normal female that was never able to defecate on her own and ended up dying. I kept her alive for 5 months, if I remember right, and she ate every time I offered her a small prey item. I assume something was wrong internally as her kink was not bad.


Edit:
2 years ago I had a total of 12 babies, her 4 were the only ones with issues and were incubated along with other eggs.

Also, I'm totally willing to accept that it could be my fault, I just find it weird that her eggs are the only ones I've had problems with. I've had 4 clutches so far this year, 2 have hatched out perfectly, the 3rd will hatch by the end of this month. All the babies this year were by the same male (I bought a male breeder that turned out to be a female so I was stuck with the pastel male again this year).

I guess if you want to give this female one more chance, pair her with a different male and see what happens. Sometimes there's just that tiniest percentage of a chance in nature (not just snakes) that the combination of sire and dam will cause a problem with the offspring.

If you're already in a position of wanting to thin out your normal females anyhow, I don't see any value in continuing to breed her.

She's a pretty girl and will make a lovely pet for someone. If I were in your shoes, I would sell her as a "pet only" and explain to anyone buying her that she has a strong history of throwing deformed babies. If someone else buys her and tries to breed her, then that is on them. But hopefully she'd end up in a caring home and live the life of ball python luxury. :)

If it's the same male, do a rigorous pairing with a multitude of other males excluding the male who keeps taking and see what comes up. It could be her and that male together throwing the problems, some how wildly closely related?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I guess if you want to give this female one more chance, pair her with a different male and see what happens. Sometimes there's just that tiniest percentage of a chance in nature (not just snakes) that the combination of sire and dam will cause a problem with the offspring.

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I was thinking about that, I just wasn't sure how much I wanted to try again. I have 15 females that will be ready to breed this winter and I really do need to start getting rid of some of my normals.

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Originally Posted by JLC

If you're already in a position of wanting to thin out your normal females anyhow, I don't see any value in continuing to breed her.

She's a pretty girl and will make a lovely pet for someone. If I were in your shoes, I would sell her as a "pet only" and explain to anyone buying her that she has a strong history of throwing deformed babies. If someone else buys her and tries to breed her, then that is on them. But hopefully she'd end up in a caring home and live the life of ball python luxury. :)

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That's a good point. I think I will sell her as a pet only with a disclaimer. You are very right, if they breed her knowing the issues I've had and they have the same issues they can't complain. She's an older girl, 8 years old, and I definitely want her to go to a good home. She's a good snake, just not a good breeder.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

If it's the same male, do a rigorous pairing with a multitude of other males excluding the male who keeps taking and see what comes up. It could be her and that male together throwing the problems, some how wildly closely related?

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Very true. I just don't know that I want to take the time again. I have a lot of other girls to breed this winter and I've been planning to thin down the herd. I have 7 normal females right now. Her and one other female are on the list to be sold, I just haven't made the final decision. It's kind of hard to get rid of these girls, I've had them for years!

They shouldn't be related, but anything is possible. I honestly don't know where this girl came from, she went through several hands before she got to me. I am at least the 3rd owner.

Yeah, it sounds like it is time to retire her. Find a nice family that will give her the love she deserves.

I was going to ask the same question as dr del, also you may want to change her conditions during breeding. like changing her rack position. she may have issues with that male also.

If you feel compelled to have me test drive her for you I have a 1.0 Banana to try on her ;)

I understand about not wanting to let them go but if she isn't doing anything useful then it might be a good time for a pet home.

@Corey I could send you a test girl for a banana! : P

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Originally Posted by Sama

Corey I could send you a test girl for a banana! : P

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I' pretty sure I have enough females to keep him busy ;)

Lol, I am sure you do!

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Originally Posted by don15681

I was going to ask the same question as dr del, also you may want to change her conditions during breeding. like changing her rack position. she may have issues with that male also.

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I suppose it could be her and that male together that are the issue. Hmmm. She actually has been in a different rack all 3 times she has laid. The last clutch was even laid in a different rack on a different floor in the house.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

If you feel compelled to have me test drive her for you I have a 1.0 Banana to try on her ;)

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Lol if you lived closer I would probably drop her off for you!

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Originally Posted by Sama

I understand about not wanting to let them go but if she isn't doing anything useful then it might be a good time for a pet home.

@Corey I could send you a test girl for a banana! : P

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Yeah, it's hard to let them go after you've had them for years, but I think it's probably time to cut my losses and find a pet home for her.

She is pretty and docile so I'm sure I'll find someone interested in keeping her as a pet only.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...Isis/027-7.jpg

"The last clutch was even laid in a different rack on a different floor in the house. " I am imagining you have a fifteen story house with three stories devoted to snake facilities..... :D