Alternative feeders

I am wondering whether a royal python would be able to get its nutritional needs from non-mammalian food sources. I ask this for two reasons. The first simply being that I would not like to feed mice, but the other reason comes from the fact that when young, they (the snakes) must eat things that are smaller, like some sorts of bugs. In replicating a natural environment, it would interest me in also replicating a more naturally diverse and progressive diet (aside from the total lack of mice, of course). Back onto the first reason, however, if this is not a good idea, I may look into an eastern hognose snake instead, because I would not mind feeding amphibians so much.

Ball pythons start on nothing smaller than fuzzy mice. No insects for them in the wild world. As they get larger, some people feed them chicks on occasion, but they get far less nutritional value than feeding on mice or rats.

If you can't handle feeding your snake what it needs to live, perhaps look into another animal that doesn't eat rodents. Many lizards are insectivores and herbivores.

Eastern hognose eat only toads, and that's one reason for liking them. Or wormsnakes that eat worms or bugs, but those are a little too small for me. Are anoles/geckos or other lizards or non-toxic frogs no good for the pythons long-term either?

I love caiman lizards, by the way, but those are bloody expensive, and I'm not sure about any other ones at the moment.

Are you new to reptiles?


Would you have a problem feeding frozen/thawed mammals or just live?

Most pythons don't eat cold blooded prey. (there are exceptions) Eastern hognose do prefer toads, Viper boas will eat frogs, Indonesian tree boas eat lizards like geckos. The problem with feeder lizards and amphibians is that (in the US) they are pretty much all wild caught and thus full of parasites. Your snake will pick these up and they could get out of control in captivity. In captivity, they live, eat, and drink were they also defecate.

Ball pythons see using their heat pits. If it ain't hot, they ain't gunna eat it. Trust me, i tried feeding my cinny ice chips when she was laying her eggs and all she did was scream "gettttt outttt!" :(

Ball pythons are well known to be picky feeder, the chance of an alternate prey is almost zero, additionally not only do they not need a variety in their diet but doing so will only make them even more picky and lead to long fast.

Finally I will say this

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The first simply being that I would not like to feed mice

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What YOU like here really does not matter what matter is what YOUR BP eats and accepts as a prey, if you are not willing to accommodate that then maybe a Ball Python may not be the pet for you.

If you want a snake that east bug consider a Rough Green Snake.

If you wanna get a pet that you can experiment feeding variety to then get a tarantula. Seriously theres so many options with them... Tons of different types of roaches, worms, flies, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Ball pythons see using their heat pits. If it ain't hot, they ain't gunna eat it. Trust me, i tried feeding my cinny ice chips when she was laying her eggs and all she did was scream "gettttt outttt!" :(

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I don't breed, so I'm curious as to what ice chips would help with. I would think it would just be painful having that sit inside of you slowly melting and brining down your body temp as a cold blooded animal. Similar to feeding a still partially frozen rodent. Does it make them contract and push the eggs out or something?

It was a joke.:)

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I don't breed, so I'm curious as to what ice chips would help with. I would think it would just be painful having that sit inside of you slowly melting and brining down your body temp as a cold blooded animal. Similar to feeding a still partially frozen rodent. Does it make them contract and push the eggs out or something?

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It's Mike...that was a joke.

Ball Pythons are geared towards eating rodents. The area that they're native to has at least 20 different species of rodent. Did you mean you don't want to feed rodents? Or just mice in particular? They'll also eat rats, African soft furred rats (ASF's), Gerbils, Hamsters (rather expensive for these last two) or many other types of rodent. And Frozen/Thawed rodents are always a good option if you just don't wish to feed live. Just make sure you heat the prey item up first so they can sense it with their heat pits.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I don't breed, so I'm curious as to what ice chips would help with. I would think it would just be painful having that sit inside of you slowly melting and brining down your body temp as a cold blooded animal. Similar to feeding a still partially frozen rodent. Does it make them contract and push the eggs out or something?

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I understand that he tried to get her to do lamaze breathing with him also but she just hissed at him and called for an epidural.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I don't breed, so I'm curious as to what ice chips would help with. I would think it would just be painful having that sit inside of you slowly melting and brining down your body temp as a cold blooded animal. Similar to feeding a still partially frozen rodent. Does it make them contract and push the eggs out or something?

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Have you ever had kids? Make sure i'm there. I'll piss you off and you can tell me if it makes you push harder. "GETTTT OUTTTT!" "I love you, hold me." "Dont touch me get away from me." "Wipe my faceDONT TOUCHHH MEEE!" My cinny only knows tough love, and i'm not even the baby daddy :(

Did you at least rub her feet when she was done? Rofl y'all are too funny. Maybe even put a disclaimer when you're being silly so people don't go giving ice chips to preggo snakes ;)

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Are you new to reptiles?


Would you have a problem feeding frozen/thawed mammals or just live?

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I would prefer not to at all, but while many may find this odd, I would prefer to feed live if necessary. I find feeding dead animals barbaric in comparison. Unless you've got a pet vulture or something. This is why I would like to feed lizards - because they've not got any incisors and I've seen mouse bites on a snake before. Of course, they were really bad and probably because people left the mice in without paying attention. This would be a return to reptiles for me. Last time I had any was when I was about thirteen or fourteen. An iguana and two anoles which we always called chameleons.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

The problem with feeder lizards and amphibians is that (in the US) they are pretty much all wild caught and thus full of parasites.

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I wouldn't use them if they were not bred for feeding. I will do separate research on that if it becomes relevant. I've already done a little and found a few sources. These pythons have bad eyesight then, and only rely on their heat pits and smell?

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Ball pythons are well known to be picky feeder, the chance of an alternate prey is almost zero, additionally not only do they not need a variety in their diet but doing so will only make them even more picky and lead to long fast.

If you want a snake that east bug consider a Rough Green Snake.

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I love green snakes as well, but after watching and reading so much about pythons, and seeing how a rather large Burmese python is what got me really interested years ago, I'm not sure anything else would fill that gap, even if I really liked them as well. If they take a lizard as their first meal, are they more likely to want to eat them? Or are they likely to be totally disinterested in any case? Or is it that nobody has tried because of the difficulty?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you wanna get a pet that you can experiment feeding variety to then get a tarantula. Seriously theres so many options with them... Tons of different types of roaches, worms, flies, etc.

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I'm arachnophobic, is all I've got to say to that. Curiously, scorpions don't creep me out because they look more like crabs, but their stingers scare me off.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Ball Pythons are geared towards eating rodents. The area that they're native to has at least 20 different species of rodent. Did you mean you don't want to feed rodents? Or just mice in particular? They'll also eat rats, African soft furred rats (ASF's), Gerbils, Hamsters (rather expensive for these last two) or many other types of rodent. And Frozen/Thawed rodents are always a good option if you just don't wish to feed live. Just make sure you heat the prey item up first so they can sense it with their heat pits.

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If it is absolutely necessary to feed rodents, which would be the safest for a live feeding? Are any of them diurnal, where the snake is nocturnal, making everything go smoother hopefully?

I'm still confused as to why you object to feeding mice/rodents. Not only are they the preferred diet of keepers, but rodents are their natural prey, in addition to the occasional bird. Also, if you try to do a strict amphibian or reptilian diet, you may have issues keeping a steady supply of them. You'll probably have to start a feeder colony yourself, which will in turn require their own specialized diet. Seems like a huge hassle IMO when you can just stock up on frozen rats :)

I would suggest looking into some of the garter snakes that will feed on minnows and small fish instead, there are some really beautiful ones out there.

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Originally Posted by Qoph

I would prefer not to at all, but while many may find this odd, I would prefer to feed live if necessary. I find feeding dead animals barbaric in comparison.

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How is feeding pre-killed rodents barbaric? Last time I checked when I sit down to my dinner table my food is quite dead. When you pre-kill a rodent you have the ability to do so in the quickest/most humane way possible. Using CO2 gas the rodents fall asleep and don't wake back up. No pain, no panic just sleep. Whereas feeding live isn't going to be painless or necessarily quick either. Not to mention the fact that a live rodent has the potential to hurt the snake during the feeding process.

Ball Pythons evolved to hunt/eat small mammals and to some extent birds. They mainly use their heat pits and sense of smell to hunt. Insects and lizards aren't even going to show up on the menu to them. As has been stated numerous times in this thread already, if you don't want to feed rodents don't get a ball python, it's just that simple. Don't put your wants in front of the snakes needs.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

As has been stated numerous times in this thread already, if you don't want to feed rodents don't get a ball python, it's just that simple. Don't put your wants in front of the snakes needs.

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I'm not, and that's why I'm here in the first place trying to figure it all out. Capisce? Anyway, I failed to multiquote this one, but the reason I find it 'barbaric' is that snakes normally kill their food on their own. I don't like the mass manufacture of food, as much is wasted that way, and it's often careless*. Live food won't waste, unless you keep it poorly. I'm still interested in knowing if there is a rodent species safer than the rest for live feeding because they're either not as aggressive or because they're diurnal.


*I appreciate responses, but remember both reasons apply at once, and it's just the way I think, which is unlikely to change. I understand the argument that gas leads to a quicker death, and factor it in.

We feed live, and we feed on the smaller side of what the snake can eat. And nothing bigger than a small rat if it is live. That way the snake can kill it quickly. Also, a small rat is a young rat, usually 4-6 weeks old. At that age, they are pretty docile. And rat fuzzies/pups are pretty darn harmless.

That being said, if you are concerned about mass produced food, you probably need to raise your own rodents. Live feeders are no less mass produced than frozen ones.

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You could always raise your own and pre kill. That way you can ensure that nothing is "wasted" or that the process is careless. And you wouldn't have to worry about aggression. But as long as you properly supervise feedings, live feeds shouldn't be a problem with any type of rodent. Just make sure the feeder is watered, well fed and calm.

Believe me...rat breeders aren't 'wasting' anything, lol. Rats are valuable.

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Originally Posted by Anya

Believe me...rat breeders aren't 'wasting' anything, lol. Rats are valuable.

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Haha agreed! And they're in short supply, at least in my area. I know I treat and euthanize my feeders with the utmost of care, as do many hobby breeders.

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Originally Posted by Qoph

If it is absolutely necessary to feed rodents, which would be the safest for a live feeding? Are any of them diurnal, where the snake is nocturnal, making everything go smoother hopefully?

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Well, if you absolutely have to feed live, a young small rat is much less likely to fight back then an adult mouse.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

We feed live, and we feed on the smaller side of what the snake can eat. And nothing bigger than a small rat if it is live. That way the snake can kill it quickly. Also, a small rat is a young rat, usually 4-6 weeks old. At that age, they are pretty docile. And rat fuzzies/pups are pretty darn harmless.

That being said, if you are concerned about mass produced food, you probably need to raise your own rodents. Live feeders are no less mass produced than frozen ones.

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If you feed on the small side, do you feed two animals, or do you feed more frequently? I know they're all mass-produced, but if you feed live, and the snake doesn't take it, you don't waste a rat. I would not be able to keep rats at the moment, otherwise I would consider it.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

As long as you properly supervise feedings, live feeds shouldn't be a problem with any type of rodent. Just make sure the feeder is watered, well fed and calm.

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That's good to know, and of course see above for a response to your other comment.

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Originally Posted by Qoph

If you feed on the small side, do you feed two animals, or do you feed more frequently? I know they're all mass-produced, but if you feed live, and the snake doesn't take it, you don't waste a rat. I would not be able to keep rats at the moment, otherwise I would consider it.


That's good to know, and of course see above for a response to your other comment.

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If you are feeding frozen rodents, and the snake doesn't eat it you just refreeze the rodent and use it next time. You can't do it more than 1 or 2 times, but you shouldn't ever have to.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You just refreeze the rodent and use it next time.

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That's good to know. Thanks everybody, for the info.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

If you are feeding frozen rodents, and the snake doesn't eat it you just refreeze the rodent and use it next time. You can't do it more than 1 or 2 times, but you shouldn't ever have to.

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About how long do you think you can you leave it with the snake and still referee?

I'd red flag it after the second thawing if it makes it that far.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If you wanna get a pet that you can experiment feeding variety to then get a tarantula. Seriously theres so many options with them... Tons of different types of roaches, worms, flies, etc.

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Not to mention, especially large species of tarantula will take warm blooded prey too. ;)

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