ASF Questions

I bought 10 (5 males and 5 females) ASF a few days ago. They are all weanlings and I currently have them in the same 58qt tub.

I understand that breeding groups are one male and several females, but how many is too much for that tub?

Is it okay to have more than one male per tub? Or will they fight when they get older?

Do they need several hides/nesting boxes? Now, I have one small cardboard box that they all hide in together and 2 toilet paper tubes. Will the females want more options when they have babies so they can keep away from the group?

Is it okay to keep their food in a small bowl or should they have a hopper?

Thanks for looking!

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Originally Posted by Schaub

I bought 10 (5 males and 5 females) ASF a few days ago. They are all weanlings and I currently have them in the same 58qt tub.

I understand that breeding groups are one male and several females, but how many is too much for that tub?

Is it okay to have more than one male per tub? Or will they fight when they get older?

Do they need several hides/nesting boxes? Now, I have one small cardboard box that they all hide in together and 2 toilet paper tubes. Will the females want more options when they have babies so they can keep away from the group?

Is it okay to keep their food in a small bowl or should they have a hopper?

Thanks for looking!

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I've heard that they'll fight although I don't have any personal experience with that. I keep mine in 1.3 or 1.4 groups. I usually provide a few hides because my girls like to make two giant piles of babies lol. They don't really separate them by who belongs to who, they kind of mix and match the pinks when they're little.

I'd say either do the hopper (you'll save on food, it's cleaner, etc) or just dump the food directly on the floor. That's where it will end up anyway if you have a dish :) And the dish will just become a toilet/chew toy.


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Originally Posted by MootWorm

I'd say either do the hopper (you'll save on food, it's cleaner, etc) or just dump the food directly on the floor. That's where it will end up anyway if you have a dish :) And the dish will just become a toilet/chew toy.

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Hopper :gj:

We have the tops of our ASF tubs grated and we throw our Mazuri on top so the Adults can just eat at liesure without making a horrible mess.

Sub-Adults get hoppers for the same reason, saves on food big time imo.

Thanks for the advice. :gj:

You both said that a hopper would save on food, I don't exactly understand how.

As for seed-type food, I assume just on the floor is fine?

As for water, they have a water bottle now, but some of my little guys seem to have a hard time with the water bottle, especially when there are several who decide they're thirsty at the same time. If I get a small metal/ceramic dish, do you think that would be okay for an additional water source or will it be a bad idea?

My boys get along great for now, but like I said, they are young still. Which led me to thinking, how old should babies be before they need to be separated?

In my current situation, would you separate them into 1.2 and 1.3 groups and feed off the other 3 boys? Or 1.5 and feed off the rest? Or something else?

And out of curiosity: How many breeding groups do you have versus the number of snakes you keep?

Thanks again for looking.

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Originally Posted by Schaub

Thanks for the advice. :gj:

You both said that a hopper would save on food, I don't exactly understand how.

As for seed-type food, I assume just on the floor is fine?

As for water, they have a water bottle now, but some of my little guys seem to have a hard time with the water bottle, especially when there are several who decide they're thirsty at the same time. If I get a small metal/ceramic dish, do you think that would be okay for an additional water source or will it be a bad idea?

My boys get along great for now, but like I said, they are young still. Which led me to thinking, how old should babies be before they need to be separated?

In my current situation, would you separate them into 1.2 and 1.3 groups and feed off the other 3 boys? Or 1.5 and feed off the rest? Or something else?

And out of curiosity: How many breeding groups do you have versus the number of snakes you keep?

Thanks again for looking.

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If its not in a hopper, they'll throw the food on the ground, pee on it, bury it, anything you can imagine they'll do to it lol. Then it'll get gross and you'll dump it, that's where your waste is. I'd do two groups just n case there's something wrong with the one male. I'd feed off the additional males. Or if they're too small, you can keep them together to grow them out. I have a 3.0 group I'm growing out, they get along great. I'm sure if I throw a lady in there all hell would break out.

I have 5 snakes and 3 breeding groups. I just retired my one 1.4 group, fed off the male and now I'm just waiting for all the little ones to grow up. I also have regular rats since my balls getting too big for ASF and they take awhile to get to size. At one point I had wayyy too many ASF, but I feed f/t so it's not a problem. I'm actually needing to ramp up production since I sell some on Craigslist and there's a huge demand. If you go that route, they pay for themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schaub

I bought 10 (5 males and 5 females) ASF a few days ago. They are all weanlings and I currently have them in the same 58qt tub.

I understand that breeding groups are one male and several females, but how many is too much for that tub?

Is it okay to have more than one male per tub? Or will they fight when they get older?

Do they need several hides/nesting boxes? Now, I have one small cardboard box that they all hide in together and 2 toilet paper tubes. Will the females want more options when they have babies so they can keep away from the group?

Is it okay to keep their food in a small bowl or should they have a hopper?

Thanks for looking!

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I've never tried anything with more than one male. I'm assuming theyd eventually fight as they grow up.

I've done 1:3 all the way to 1:9 with success.

I don't give hides as they never used them anyways. I thought maybe they'd have their babies inside but they'd rather put them in a corner, uncovered.

A hopper will be better. I just dump their food on the aspen.

I've tried hoppers before and all it did was waste food. My AFS would just "play" around with their food if I leave it in a hopper, turning my rodent lab blocks into dust/small crumbs overnight. Now all I do is dump a certain amount each day in to the bedding to insure that it won't go to waste.

Thanks for the input everyone, it's very much appreciated.

I think I'll wait on the hopper for now and try just putting in a few blocks like Anthony.If that doesn't work, I guess I'll have learned the hard way.

Do you guys feed your ASF seeds? If so how often? Mine love it, but I don't know how often to give them new. Daily? Weekly?

Bobbafett, what did you keep your 1:9 in? I want to make sure my ASF aren't too crowded. I will probably split them into two groups because what MootWorm said about something possibly being wrong with one of the boys made a lot of sense. That said, they seem content for now, so I don't mind leaving them together for a bit longer.

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Originally Posted by 11anthony

I've tried hoppers before and all it did was waste food. My AFS would just "play" around with their food if I leave it in a hopper, turning my rodent lab blocks into dust/small crumbs overnight. Now all I do is dump a certain amount each day in to the bedding to insure that it won't go to waste.

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So yours would crumble them through the bars/mesh and leave the crumbles on the floor? Weird. I've never had that happen. Although I give mine TP rolls, Popsicle sticks and other stuff to keep em occupied so maybe that's why.

I was using a big 40 gallon for my 1:9.

What your asking about I think is something that you may have to just take everything you hear and then figure out what actually works best for you, but here are some things I see in my colonies...fyi, I keep about 12-15 colonies, plus one weaned out tub.

First, I was told that grown asf's will fight, and I don't doubt at all that many people do have this problem. I don't, I do not know what is different and why I don't have fighting problems, but I never have trouble with adults fighting. I keep colonies usually at 2.6(or 7) per tub and don't have trouble with adults not getting along. I've had a male die and replaced it with another grown one out of my weaned out tub and still not had trouble.

I mentioned having one tub for weaned out asf's, it's the black concrete mixing tub which at any given time probably has anywhere from 20-50 of them in it. When I clean cages and have anything to wean, I just toss them into this tub, same tub, all the time...no problems.

I do not give mine any kind of hide boxes, my breeder tubs are about 9x12x7 and they do seem to do better in smaller caging than larger more roomy caging. I've tried using the concrete mixing tubs to breed in and for whatever reason, I get much better production out of the smaller dish pan tubs instead.

I do suggest using food hoppers, I think you'll save wasted food because of it just getting dirty in the bedding.

I also believe trying to put in a water dish is just going to be a waste of more time than it's worth, if you have a water bottle or water nozzle for them, if they're thirsty, they'll find a way to get to it. A water dish is just going to get bedding kicked into it and stay dirty as fast as you can change it and keep it clean. I know in my cages the hopper sized rodents (asf's and mice both) have to jump up and hang onto the hardware cloth that is the top to their cages to be able to eat the food on top and also to get to the water nozzles that just stick through the wire a little...this is not a problem for them.

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Originally Posted by 11anthony

turning my rodent lab blocks into dust/small crumbs

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This is a lot of times a sign of nervousness or basically going stir crazy if you want to think of it that way. Giving them a block of wood or stick or something to chew on instead of destroying their food will often solve this problem.


Charlie

Charlie,

Thank you very much for your input!

I have realized that I need to figure out what works best for my colony and not worry so much about what others might do. In my limited experience, I have come to the conclusion that everyone's experience with ASF differs.

I am happy to hear that your colonies don't fight. I hope to be able to keep 2 males together the way you have.

I am still toying around with the whole hopper idea. I don't like the ones that go up to the top of the tub, I find them aesthetically displeasing, but i don't want them sitting on the top of a box attached to the side either. Clearly, I have reading to do on the subject.

I kinda figured the water bowl would be a bad idea, but didn't really think it through completely, so thanks again for the advice.

Over all, I think I worry too much. :yes:

Enjoy your little babies!

If you have space, give them a wheel! ;) it's hilarious seeing 20-30 babies on one trying to make it move.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Enjoy your little babies!

If you have space, give them a wheel! ;) it's hilarious seeing 20-30 babies on one trying to make it move.

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Double yes on this!! My favorite is when the little ones hang onto the edges while the big ones are running, then go flinging off when it gets too fast. They seem to enjoy it :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schaub

I have realized that I need to figure out what works best for my colony and not worry so much about what others might do. In my limited experience, I have come to the conclusion that everyone's experience with ASF differs.

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Definitely find what works best for you.

I keep/raise my ASF just like my regular rats, with a male that gets rotated through the females. Yes, you heard right. I rotate soft furs. He's in with a group of three girls for 2 weeks, then is immediately moved to the next group of 3. No fighting. No killing. Been doing it for about a year now. Had I listened to advice on forums, I'd have never found this out. It actually came about in desperation, as 1.3 groups all had babies and then promptly consumed them. I found out that as long as there was no male in with them when they gave birth, they raised babies just fine. Gotta find what works for you.

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Originally Posted by Shadera

I'd have never found this out. It actually came about in desperation, as 1.3 groups all had babies and then promptly consumed them. I found out that as long as there was no male in with them when they gave birth, they raised babies just fine. Gotta find what works for you.

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Just to clarify, did you mean that the mothers cannibalised their young or that your snakes quickly ate them all? This is the first time I've heard of ASFs cannibalizing.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

I've heard that they'll fight although I don't have any personal experience with that. I keep mine in 1.3 or 1.4 groups. I usually provide a few hides because my girls like to make two giant piles of babies lol. They don't really separate them by who belongs to who, they kind of mix and match the pinks when they're little.

I'd say either do the hopper (you'll save on food, it's cleaner, etc) or just dump the food directly on the floor. That's where it will end up anyway if you have a dish :) And the dish will just become a toilet/chew toy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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I agree with everything thats been said here. I also give my asfs exercise wheels and ping pong balls to play with...preferred, but not necessary :D

sent from my incubator

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Just to clarify, did you mean that the mothers cannibalised their young or that your snakes quickly ate them all? This is the first time I've heard of ASFs cannibalizing.

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Mothers, or the males, ate babies. It's the first real issue I've ever had with these guys. Raised them when I lived on the east coast, but my colony out there that I had going for about 5 years ran perfectly.

This group I got are just ... different. Very docile rats, but horrible parents. I'm in the process of culling the negative aspects out of them.

Well I kept all of my 10 together until today. I checked on them after work to find one of my males has a bite wound on his head. I'm pretty sure I know who the culprit is because there is only one who has shown any aggression (the little monster bit me too). I tried to feed him off last night, but he made friends with one snake and the other wasn't hungry apparently. So, now the extra boys have a bachelor pad. Hopefully the snakes eat my problem child next week and I won't have to worry about the boys brawling while I'm gone.