ID help needed for multi-sire clutch... and show the clutch off, why not :)

I got a female in a trade before the breeding season began. She is a het Caramel (i keep her branded as a poss-het because she didn't come with papers or proof hatching out caramels, but that's beside the posint). Since it was last minute, I didn't really have plans for her, so I bred her to a champagne and a bee. The goal was for the champagne to take, but the bee was thrown in in case he didn't.

Before I even got her, though, the previous owner said she locked up with a Spotnose Specter. Neither of these genes I have worked with, although I am familiar with the spotnose and markings otherwise. I only recently began shopping around for a specter for a superstripe project so although I know some about how to identify a specter, I will be the first to admit when I am not comfortable enough with a gene to make a positive ID.

I was hoping for some input here: what all do I have here? I understand the specter side of things can be harder to identify via pictures, but that's what I am having trouble with, so before I go into why I think a snake may or may not be one in this clutch, I'll wait for some thoughts from anyone more familiar with specters.

quick details: Part way through shooting the clouds came out, so a slight drop in quality and color on the second half of pics, did have to very slightly increase brightness on 2 pics. Couldn't get decent shot of flames to include those in this round of pics. Different angles can be attained if needed.

Thanks for your time and input :)

SNAKE 1:
(This one is clearly not going to have specter nor spotnose :P )

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...1.jpg~original

SNAKE 2:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...7.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...6.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...8.jpg~original

Snake 3:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...2.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...5.jpg~original

Snake 4:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...8.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original

SNAKE 5:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...3.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...5.jpg~original

SNAKE 6:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...7.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original

SNAKE 7:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...3.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...5.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...6.jpg~original

SNAKE 8:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...8.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...9.jpg~original

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...0.jpg~original

2 and 3 look like spotnose.

The dog that crashed the party looks pretty cute!

6 looks like a specter.

2.3.4 - spotnose.
6. - looks specter to me too


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Thanks all for the comments!

I was already good on the spotnose identification, but still having trouble with the specter. May I inquire why number 6 looks specter? Specific reason I ask is I had that one pinned as a normal, so wondering what I missed.

I spent the evening looking at specters and reading the many bits on ID and one recurring item is the stripe on the tail. Yes, this has a stripe, but it is slight and doesn't seem as notable as the specter striping, but of course I can easily find links to ones with just as small stripes, so you could be right.

Nice! Congrats!! Love those spot noses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WtGreg

Thanks all for the comments!

I was already good on the spotnose identification, but still having trouble with the specter. May I inquire why number 6 looks specter? Specific reason I ask is I had that one pinned as a normal, so wondering what I missed.

I spent the evening looking at specters and reading the many bits on ID and one recurring item is the stripe on the tail. Yes, this has a stripe, but it is slight and doesn't seem as notable as the specter striping, but of course I can easily find links to ones with just as small stripes, so you could be right.

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Im not an expert, but the flames gave it away for me. Specters have a YB quality to them since they're allelic to each other.

Some of the others could be specter, but I wasn't totally sure so I didn't say anything.

I would PM SnakesRkewl to clarify. I'm pretty sure he has specter stuff.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

2.3.4 - spotnose.
6. - looks specter to me too


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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seconded. 2-4 are spots: pattern may vary, but that head stamp is their signature. I'd say 6 is a specter as well, but it's a morph I don't have, so take it for what it's worth. either way, they're all poss. het caramel? not too shabby.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

seconded. 2-4 are spots: pattern may vary, but that head stamp is their signature. I'd say 6 is a specter as well, but it's a morph I don't have, so take it for what it's worth. either way, they're all poss. het caramel? not too shabby.

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When I cut the eggs and saw the heads, I am pretty sure I squeaked like a little girl seeing the markings and knowing that I now have new genes beyond the het caramel of the mother. I love adding new genetics to what I have to work with! For the mother I have her labeled as a poss het due to not coming with papers, but since she was sold as a full het, even better because, like you said, they are poss het caramel.
Thanks for the input on 6. I will have to get them checked in person by a person working with specters, but also will go pay a little more attention to 6 and see what's up... may be holding that one back to try to my ivory next year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Im not an expert, but the flames gave it away for me. Specters have a YB quality to them since they're allelic to each other.

Some of the others could be specter, but I wasn't totally sure so I didn't say anything.

I would PM SnakesRkewl to clarify. I'm pretty sure he has specter stuff.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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Thanks for the suggestion!! I will PM later when I get a chance and keep this thread updated with what i find.

Not too great at the normal/yellow belly looking morphs yet but I wanted to say that the 4 leaf clover looking head stamp on number 4 is sweet! I love it! Grats on the babies!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlueMoonExotics

Not too great at the normal/yellow belly looking morphs yet but I wanted to say that the 4 leaf clover looking head stamp on number 4 is sweet! I love it! Grats on the babies!

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Thank you! I am loving the little additions

I dunno if repticon-atlanta will be good this go around, but if there is a good variety of ball breeders I may decide to take the snakes to be looked at in person by anyone with specters in their at-show-inventory and 'pick their brains'... though anybody familiar with any non-vendor attendees that are familiar with specters who would be be willing to take a look, let me know.

Similar note: I may have figured it out though. Alot of rain here, but if I get a chance with sun out to get clear shots to enhance what I see relative to the original pics, will definitely work to get those.

specters have speckles on the belly like a yb but in a line instead of sprinkled all over the belly or just down the sides like yb's ...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4bb92b56.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc1c40f93.jpg

They also have a head spot very much like a yb ...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/100_7357.jpg

They also tend to have black spots in the striping down the back ...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/100_7310.jpg

Hope these help

Just as a little update:
Knowing the belly of the spotnose better than I know the specter, I have concluded the most likely specter candidates of the spotnoses to be snake 2 and 3 with the other being a normal Spotnose Poss het caramel. Since they are the most likely, they are being held back. The bittersweet is that they are females, so have to wait a while to get to size before I can prove anything out. The only male with the spotnose gene is the one that I concluded to be the normal spotnose.
The other most likely candidate may and may not be held back, we'll see. They will be sold off as het. caramels since I will not keep them long enough to prove out the specter side, and I can't rightfully sell it as a specter without being certain it is in fact that.
Hoping I made the right choices, but only time will tell!

Thanks again all for your input!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

seconded. 2-4 are spots: pattern may vary, but that head stamp is their signature. I'd say 6 is a specter as well, but it's a morph I don't have, so take it for what it's worth. either way, they're all poss. het caramel? not too shabby.

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Not to hijack anything, but I have a young female with a almost identical star headstamp, I always thought she was normal, is this a 100%?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kylearmbar

Not to hijack anything, but I have a young female with a almost identical star headstamp, I always thought she was normal, is this a 100%?

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Upload a picture and we'll tell ya.... as long as you aren't asking if specter is in it ;)