Expert opinions on this poss het clown

Hey all you het clown experts out there...a friend of mine bought this pastel poss het clown female awhile back. I need your guys' help to positively identify it as an actual het....thinkin about makin him an offer :D
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/14/nu6u7ady.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/14/epyqubuq.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/14/unuhavyn.jpg

sent from my incubator

Aww c'mon guys....pleez?? :(

sent from my incubator

Looks like a Poss het to me. ;)

do you understand the difference between a possible het and a het? and there's no way to tell by a pic. the clown gene will change the appearance of some morphs. with pastels it will usually make them brighter. but don't bet your money on it. to most breeders, a pos het isn't worth the time and effort you need to put into a female for just a maybe. I would rather spend 250 for a 100% het clown female than buying a pastel pos het clown female. if you want to take the chance, I wouldn't pay nothing more than what it's worth as a pastel female. he should accept that as a pos het anything is a hard sell. hope this helps you make a good decision. don

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Originally Posted by don15681

do you understand the difference between a possible het and a het? and there's no way to tell by a pic. don

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At least not with that one anyway.. I know a few people that have picked put the hets from a possible het clutch 100% accurately every time. Even if you have never bred them before, that snake does not look like other pastel het clowns out there.

I say breed it to a clown.

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Originally Posted by don15681

do you understand the difference between a possible het and a het? and there's no way to tell by a pic. the clown gene will change the appearance of some morphs. with pastels it will usually make them brighter. but don't bet your money on it. to most breeders, a pos het isn't worth the time and effort you need to put into a female for just a maybe. I would rather spend 250 for a 100% het clown female than buying a pastel pos het clown female. if you want to take the chance, I wouldn't pay nothing more than what it's worth as a pastel female. he should accept that as a pos het anything is a hard sell. hope this helps you make a good decision. don

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I myself do NOT know how to tell 100% hets from non hets. However, there are some people on this forum who claim to be able to do that.....even with het and non het albinos :eek: That is why im posting pics and asking opinions. And yes, i DO understand the difference between an actual het and a poss het. Gimme a little credit here, im not that much of a noob :p

sent from my incubator

It would be really hard for anyone to make an educated guess without seeing the clutch mates for comparison.

Yeah, it makes sense. Im torn tho, cuz if she was 100% het clown, that would really be a huge jump forward for my killer clown project. Shes already breeding size, and i could get a male pastel clown or a pastel het n start producing next year for my project. Especially if she was a good price. Im on the fence with this one tho....my friend bought her directly from the breeder at a show as a hatchling. Maybe i can get more info if he remembers whether or not her clutchmates were there for sale or not.

sent from my incubator

I would pass ;)

It is a pastel poss het clown. If a breeder could accurately pick out the hets in a possible het clutch they would. They would also charge the 100% het price tag.

Doesn't look promising imo.

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I'm no expert on the clown gene but my uneducated guess is that I like the zig zaggy back pattern in the first picture. Looks a little clownish to me.

Always find people's opinions on possible hets interesting. Most absolutely hate them. Seems like they would much rather have a 0% and would pay more if you didn't mention the chance.

I'm a nut the other way. I've proven quite a few possible hets (pied and hypos picked on appearance) and the one time I bred a pair of 100% hets it seemed like cheating.

How much more is he asking over the going price for an adult pastel female? If you trust that the chance is really there then surely the shot is worth a little something. Especially if just having a breeding size pastel without the years it takes to raise up a hatchling is a consolation prize you can live with.

My friend said that this particular breeder at the time was a young guy just starting with not much experience if that means anything. I would think that if the price was right, itd be worth the gamble but Im still unsure. Its not a great quality pastel by any means, but I don't know if itd be worth it to take the gamble and see if she is 100% het.....cuz if she did end up being het, Id be kicking myself.

I'm not an expert or anything but aren't possible hets usually sold for the same price as the non hets? If you really want to take the chance on her then offer what you normally would for a regular pastel of her quality. I wouldn't pay anymore than that honestly.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

It is a pastel poss het clown. If a breeder could accurately pick out the hets in a possible het clutch they would. They would also charge the 100% het price tag.

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That's unethical :rolleye2:
It's a pastel non het since it doesn't have any markers which could also be why it's for sale.

Ok...so i just wanted to set this straight...this animal is not posted for sale anywhere. Its just in a friend's collection whos considering getting out of balls. I dont even know if hes going to sell her. We just got to talkin about clown stuff while hangin out at his place, and he showed me this girl. So since some people on this forum claim (with accuracy) to be able to spot hets from non hets, i decided to post some pics of her to get some opinions. And, if there was a good response, i was going to make my friend an offer to buy her-nothing astronomical. Id rather wait and purchase a better quality pastel thats 100% het....but this girl is breeding size, n i could prove her out next year, rather than wait and raise up a hatchling. Id just hate to pass on her if he did later prove her out, since itd give me a head start on my project....even ugly pastels have been known to throw pretty babies. Im sure hed give me a good deal. But if the response was not favorable, i wasnt even going to bother.

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Oh. N heres one more pic
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/8aqe6ane.jpg

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I'd take Jerry's advice on this one and pass.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

That's unethical :rolleye2:

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How would that be unethical? If one could 100% accurately pic out their hets, as some here swear, then how would it be wrong? Nothing unethical about that. In all honesty they will be het or they wont be.

OP. If you want to take the gamble it would be worth it. The female as a possible het sould be no more than the standered normal pastel female price. $400-600 is about standard. Worst case if shes going to be bred by a clown is you will end up with 100% het babies.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

How would that be unethical? If one could 100% accurately pic out their hets, as some here swear, then how would it be wrong? Nothing unethical about that. In all honesty they will be het or they wont be.

OP. If you want to take the gamble it would be worth it. The female as a possible het sould be no more than the standered normal pastel female price. $400-600 is about standard. Worst case if shes going to be bred by a clown is you will end up with 100% het babies.

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It *is* an unethical practice.
If neither of the parents were visual, you cannot(or shouldn't) label any offspring as a 100% Het until it has proven out. Even if anyone could pick out a true Het, the most you can sell it is a 50% or 66% het if the parent was a Het. Its all based on the sellers integrity I suppose. But I personally find it unethical.

Mike has a killer cinny 50% Het pied. Its so funky, there's no doubt it will prove out Het pied. But the seller couldn't sell it as 100% even though it visually showed promising signs because neither of the parents were visual.

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I would say it is not a good investment unless you are getting her for a non Het price- does not look like a Het Clown compared to any of mine. There is nothing there that shouts "look at me, I'm a Het Clown"!! All of my Het Clowns have a great deal of "Funkiness", lots of white outlining the alien heads on the inside and occasionally a funky head pattern.

This is not for Jerry... Sorry man, you'll spot them right away.

3 Pastels.... which one(s) is a 100% Het Clown?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4e5a5fe4.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps849bc91e.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psb591c1e8.jpg

3 Normals... Which one(s) is a 100% Het Clown?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psf46b52ed.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps567bac27.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps0abba36e.jpg

2 Butters... which one is 100% Het?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psab67ea47.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps1bfd3b06.jpg

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I would say it is not a good investment unless you are getting her for a non Het price- does not look like a Het Clown compared to any of mine. There is nothing there that shouts "look at me, I'm a Het Clown"!! All of my Het Clowns have a great deal of "Funkiness", lots of white outlining the alien heads on the inside and occasionally a funky head pattern.

This is not for Jerry... Sorry man, you'll spot them right away.

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3 Pastels.... which one(s) is a 100% Het Clown?
1. tough one..... I want to say het, but not totally sure.... It's a really nice snake. I'm going to say 'unsure'.
2. het (cannot mistake this one!)
3. het


3 Normals... Which one(s) is a 100% Het Clown?
1. Normal
2. Het
3. Normal


2 Butters... which one is 100% Het?
1. het
2. is in fact a lesser! ;p (just kidding. non-het)

Just because I like guessing games (I don't even own a clown yet).

Pastels:
#3 het clown

Normals:
#1 looks neat so I'm going to say this one is het clown

Butters:
#2 has some weird dorsal lines so that's my guess as being het clown.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

3 Pastels.... which one(s) is a 100% Het Clown?
1. tough one..... I want to say het, but not totally sure.... It's a really nice snake. I'm going to say 'unsure'.
2. het (cannot mistake this one!)
3. het


3 Normals... Which one(s) is a 100% Het Clown?
1. Normal
2. Het
3. Normal


2 Butters... which one is 100% Het?
1. het
2. is in fact a lesser! ;p (just kidding. non-het)

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See.... it's not that tough. I threw that #1 Pastel in there because she is HOT!! She just does not have the funkiness to her nor outlines in the alien heads, but she does have great blushing!!

Right on all other calls..... and the Butter is a Butter- just a crappy pic as my light tent was down and she was not cooperating!!

I knew someone would fall for the first Normal ;)

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

See.... it's not that tough. I threw that #1 Pastel in there because she is HOT!! She just does not have the funkiness to her nor outlines in the alien heads, but she does have great blushing!!

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She really is a quality amazing pastel!

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Right on all other calls.....

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Awesome! :D
Not to shabby.

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and the Butter is a Butter- just a crappy pic as my light tent was down and she was not cooperating!!

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Lmao. Yeah. I was just kidding about the lesser thing. ;)

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

See.... it's not that tough. I threw that #1 Pastel in there because she is HOT!! She just does not have the funkiness to her nor outlines in the alien heads, but she does have great blushing!!

Right on all other calls..... and the Butter is a Butter- just a crappy pic as my light tent was down and she was not cooperating!!

I knew someone would fall for the first Normal ;)

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The first normal seems very bright compared to the others and has something about her that just looks different. Then again I'm not too great with naming morphs anyway but she's very pretty! :)

So silly. And if you can pic out het clowns from a clutch then it is NOT unethical to sell them as hets. It would only be unethical if you were wrong. Some people on this site swear they can do it. I call bull on that. The pastels, normals and the butters that where just posted look absolutely non special. If they were thrown into a mix of others, they could not and would not be picked out as het clown. Anyone who says they can do it 100% is being untrue. Now that is unethical

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

So silly. And if you can pic out het clowns from a clutch then it is NOT unethical to sell them as hets. It would only be unethical if you were wrong. Some people on this site swear they can do it. I call bull on that. The pastels, normals and the butters that where just posted look absolutely non special. If they were thrown into a mix of others, they could not and would not be picked out as het clown. Anyone who says they can do it 100% is being untrue. Now that is unethical

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Look at nikki's response, she got them all correct... Can't be THAT hard.

Also, was this BS or do I maybe sorta semi-know what I'm doing? Or am I crazy? :rofl:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199118

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Look at nikki's response, she got them all correct... Can't be THAT hard.

Also, was this BS or do I maybe sorta semi-know what I'm doing? Or am I crazy? :rofl:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199118

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You cray cray! :imslow:



(well, I got all but the first correct. I said I was 'unsure' about the first one.)



I think I'm going to have to bust out your "What are Pieds?" Thread!
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...eds-%28Jinx%29

Guys this girl's only 50% poss het. Anyone wanna bet against her proving out?! I didn't even have to see her clutch mates before jumping on her. Maybe i'm just full of BS when it comes to hets though :rolleyes:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/20/ha2a5e2a.jpg

It's either het or it's not. There is NO such thing as 50%. Knowing the breeding is half the battle. Anyone can make an educated guess if you have the 2 parts of the equation.

Yea but i didn't even know the pairing lol. I agree, that does help a lot though.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Guys this girl's only 50% poss het. Anyone wanna bet against her proving out?! I didn't even have to see her clutch mates before jumping on her. Maybe i'm just full of BS when it comes to hets though :rolleyes:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/20/ha2a5e2a.jpg

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No one in their right mind would bet against that one :gj:

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

See.... it's not that tough. I threw that #1 Pastel in there because she is HOT!! She just does not have the funkiness to her nor outlines in the alien heads, but she does have great blushing!!

Right on all other calls..... and the Butter is a Butter- just a crappy pic as my light tent was down and she was not cooperating!!

I knew someone would fall for the first Normal ;)

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Omg thank you sooo much Corey....that post was extremely helpful! And i guessed right on all!

sent from my incubator

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

It's either het or it's not. There is NO such thing as 50%. Knowing the breeding is half the battle. Anyone can make an educated guess if you have the 2 parts of the equation.

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Um what? Obviously there's no "50% het," the 50%/ 66% are the odds it is or isn't. In Mike's gorgeous lil cinni's case you can tell she fell on the "is" side of the of the odds.

If one parent has one het gene, there's a 50/50 chance they'll throw that gene. Obviously it's nature so it's not really that cut and dried, just like if you flip a coin many times you aren't going to get a perfect "heads/tails ratio," but the mathematical odds work out to pretty much 50/50. Same principal applies if both parents are het, 50/50 chance for *each* parent that they'll throw their het gene.

It seems very apparently that "recessive genes" DO effect the phenotype, just they are often extremely subtle. Just because you can't pick out a het doesn't mean someone else can't. Also, like how "visual morphs" can have high and low expressions, it makes sense that hets can as well. I've seen yellowbellies it's tough to tell from normals, hets are even more subtle.