Non-Refundable Deposits (opinions needed)

Okay so on March 2nd of this year I was in a huge financial hole. After recently losing my job at Hostess Brands and getting stuck with a dead end, minimum wage job at my local BJ's Wholesale Club, I decided it would be in my best interest and in the interest of all my animals that I would off a snake. I posted my 1100 gram (at the time) female clown for sale on FaunaClassifieds for $2,500. I immediately was getting responses left and right from potential buyers. After about an hour later she was sold with an agreement of a 20% non-refundable down payment with three months to pay it off.

I get the down payment of $700 (which was an extra $200) and immediately pay off some bills, stock up on frozen rats, cat and ferret food. After about a month he sends me another $500. Great more bill money and food for my animals. Flash forward two hard months and no other money has been sent to me, the remaining balance on her is $1,300.

I text him and ask him whats up he informs me that he can no longer afford to pay (completely understandable considering the current economic times). Still needing money desperately I inform him I will put her back up for sale and send him his $700 back and keep the deposit (which is what we agreed upon). Now the clown female is weighing in at just under 1200 grams completely empty. I put her back up for sale and I keep getting lowball and trade offers (couldn't take trades at that time).

So about two weeks go buy with no sale. I get a phone call from a job and after the interview I was immediately hired. No longer needing money now I ask him if he has any trades he would like to do for the remaining $1300 (hoping we could both make out good with this deal). Now its present day, he sent me pictures of animals he would like to trade me for her but I'm not really interested in trading him for any of his animals he showed me. They just don't fit into my breeding plans/can make my own if I wanted too.

Heres where I need opinions. He is getting some type of refund no matter what (if we can't work out a trade), I'm not into taking people's money that they work hard for to get. What would be the right and honest thing to do? Refund him just the $700 and keep the deposit because he couldn't pay her in the time frame when other potential buyers probably could have? Or refund him all of the $1200 he sent me including the deposit? Has this happened to anyone before? Did you keep the deposit or refund it? I know most breeders who do payment plans say non-refundable but do they really go through with it?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

It's a non-refundable payment for a reason. That money is YOURS (minus the payments he made after the fact).

I gave Squamish Serpents $50 NON-REFUNDABLE to hold my Spider Albino for 5 days till after the expo do if I saw something else, I could go for it. Of course, she wanted to give it back if I had found something else (I hadnt) but IMO a non-refundable deposit is NON-REFUNDABLE.

Are you honest? Don't say non refundable if your going to refund.

Honestly, I'd keep going on your clown if you're still wanting to move it. If not, work your job and give him the 700 back.

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I've never had some one not come through after a deposit( Knock on wood!). But I will say, as a buyer if things are all laid out at the time of a deal, I have no hard feelings if the seller holds me to it. I expect them too. I wouldn't feel bad keeping the deposit if I were you.

From a business standpoint I would keep the non-refundable deposit as per the agreement. It seems harsh but reasonable. In smaller deals it doesn't seem as important to stick to these agreements but larger operations do it to discourage people backing out because they found something else. I personally feel its up to what you are comfortable with. I don't believe your integrity is in question here at all. Regardless of weather you refund all or only the refundable amount, no one would judge you less honest. I believe non-refundable deposits protect both parties. GL with your decision.

Thanks guys I just wanted some reassurance that I wouldn't be in the wrong for keeping the deposit. I didn't want my name to be trashed before I can even start producing animals. That wouldn't be a good start at all.

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

Thanks guys I just wanted some reassurance that I wouldn't be in the wrong for keeping the deposit. I didn't want my name to be trashed before I can even start producing animals. That wouldn't be a good start at all.

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Seems you've already made up your mind on how to proceed but for what it's worth, I'd keep the deposit as well. That money was him guaranteeing that the animal you listed would be held for him. That in turn deprived you of a potential sale of her for that period of time. He gained an assurance that the animal would be held while you gained a deposit for the amount agreed upon. He was out the money while you were out the outright sale of her for that period of time that you both agreed upon. That's good business and nothing at all questionable about your practices or what you did there. Glad it worked out for you with getting a job and that you're striving to be honest in your business dealings.

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

Seems you've already made up your mind on how to proceed but for what it's worth, I'd keep the deposit as well. That money was him guaranteeing that the animal you listed would be held for him. That in turn deprived you of a potential sale of her for that period of time. He gained an assurance that the animal would be held while you gained a deposit for the amount agreed upon. He was out the money while you were out the outright sale of her for that period of time that you both agreed upon. That's good business and nothing at all questionable about your practices or what you did there. Glad it worked out for you with getting a job and that you're striving to be honest in your business dealings.

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Far better said

So long as everything he sent you was outlined in a contract the money is yours. We make it very clear before initiating the deal that until the animal is paid in full it is not under their ownership. It is in a state of rent to buy but once the rent stops and a reasonable amount of time is given (2-8 weeks) the animal is relisted for sale and forfeited.

To give a little bit of a different side to the problem, I put down a deposit last year on some pastel hatchlings. I wanted a 1.1 pair. I was just getting into the hobby and they weren't quite ready to be shipped. So I paid $40 in a non-refundable deposit for the two of them. I think the total for the two animals was something around $180. However, as weeks went by (the female was a problem feeder) I decided to change up my breeding plans a little bit and decided that I didn't want the pastel pair. So I simply told the breeder no thanks. However, since I KNEW I paid a non-refundable deposit, I didn't ask for it back and I have no qualms with the seller. If anything, I would refund the additional $700 in payments. Those were not considered non-refundable and should be returned. If you do that, I'm pretty sure the buyer won't have any beef with you.

I'd return the extra payment beyond the deposit, and give him a credit towards a future purchase with a time limit for the deposit amount.

Congrats on the new job.

Would you guys consider adding a term to the contract for the next time saying non-refundable deposit, minimum monthly non-refundable payment and a deadline for payment in full? If full payment is not received, then the animal goes back for sale? I see this as reasonable given many of the points raised in this thread: lost time, lost sale, the cost of feeding and keeping the snake for a few extra months etc.

Of course, its up to you if the buyer had an actual good reason for backing out and you could refund any or all if you so decided. That wouldn't be in the terms of the contract however.

I believe in any situation, be it animals or objects, a non-refundable deposit is just that. It was agreed upon from the beginning and it is the buyers choice to put down that money that they could potentially lose if they back out. I don't think it makes you a bad guy at all. It's just business, it would be the same for anything else with a non-refundable deposit.

I don't refund deposits or payments. I will consider a transfer of funds to a different animal, however. I have this all wrote on my site and the buyer receives a copy of the terms as well if they choose to do a payment plan. If the buyer is worried about defaulting they won't do a payment plan and I won't have to deal with the headache.


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that 20% cut was stated it was no refundable that's yours to keep. Its setup like this because if the market was to drop and he backed out ect....

He should have been responsible to know that something could have came up in his life preventing him from completing the purchase. You could have found another buyer who would have payed up front. Don't do a trade either if thre is nothing that you like.

I would keep the deposit. Non-refundable means non-refundable.

Thanks everyone I think if we can't work out a trade I am going to refund him the $700 and keep the $500 deposit like he agreed upon. To make myself feel a little better about it I will offer him $500 credit to future hatchlings sales.

You could also offer him 1200 towards hatchling too.

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In addition to a percentage of the deposit being nonrefundable, if the buyer is making payments then there should be a set schedule for those as well, e.g. 50% down payment and half of that is nonrefundable, and the remainder plus shipping (if any) is due in 30 days. Otherwise you end up with buyers who send in dribbles of money over many months, and meanwhile you're on the hook to feed, house, and potentially provide vet care for that animal. If the buyer misses a payment then pay back any payments less the nonrefundable portion, and relist the animal for sale.