2013 Clutch #1 Results (Warning: Graphic Images)

This season I bred my dinker male to my pinstripe female. Out of five eggs these are the results...

0.0.1 Normal
0.0.4 Pinstripe (All Deceased)

Still waiting on a normal from his clutch. He appears healthy but hasn't made a move to leave the egg yet. The four pinstripes have all passed away. They were all severely kinked and deformed. I took pictures of the deceased pinstripes. I'm not 100% sure since there was an incubation issue with this clutch but because the other offspring seem to be fully pigmented and this baby died at the same time, I THINK I might have proved out my dinker. Take a look and tell me what you think. The pinstripe in question is all the way to the left.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...psf09f9a9e.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps9dfd685c.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3e9159de.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps4334588c.jpg

Close up of kinking...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...psebedd986.jpg

I'm really disappointed with this clutch. 4/5 pinstripes, one possibly a dinker pin, and all four didn't make it. Its very sad. I'm just hoping the little normal makes it.

That's awful, really sorry for you :( Hope the normal makes it!

Thank you.

The incubation issue was dehydration of the eggs part way through incubation. They started to dimple because I had them in a larger than normal egg tub (because of the way the eggs were situated I couldn't put them in a regular tub. And because of this the vermiculite dried out. The other clutch did not have any dehydration issues. I was able to rehydrate this clutch a little but I think by then the damage was done)

Out of respect for these living creatures, I think that the only thing you have proven is that you need to show more respect for the lives of your snakes and less about proving your dinker.

Ok, I'm not sure how asking about whether I proved my dinker or not shows any disrespect for these babies? I have a LOT of respect for the snakes in my care and that includes any eggs or offspring. These babies passed away and I am very upset about that. Just because I didn't post a heartfelt eulogy for them, doesn't mean I don't care or don't have respect for them. That was very inappropriate for you to say something like that. Until you can say you were there when I pulled these little babies out of the egg and cried (YES SIR, I CRIED) over their passing, you cannot and should not judge me.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Ok, I'm not sure how asking about whether I proved my dinker or not shows any disrespect for these babies? I have a LOT of respect for the snakes in my care and that includes any eggs or offspring. These babies passed away and I am very upset about that. Just because I didn't post a heartfelt eulogy for them, doesn't mean I don't care or don't have respect for them. That was very inappropriate for you to say something like that. Until you can say you were there when I pulled these little babies out of the egg and cried (YES SIR, I CRIED) over their passing, you cannot and should not judge me.

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My apologies, perhaps I spoke out of turn. Sorry.

So sorry for your loss :(. The pin on the left was incredible. Depending on what your dinker looked like, I'd say there's something going on with that one. Good luck in the future with this project.

Thank you. I just really wish I would have remembered to make the incubation material deeper. If I had, these babies would have survived. :( I'm used to little 6qt tubs. Because I didn't know when this female would lay (I missed her ovulation so I wasn't sure if she was going to go or not) I didn't catch her eggs right away. Normally I can get to the eggs within a few hours of them being laid and I can make sure they lay in the egg box right (in the case of my spider clutch I was able to separate the eggs). With these eggs I was surprised and they had already stuck together too much for me to risk trying to separate them so I put them in a bigger egg tub (the egg pile was too tall for a 6qt tub) but I guess it was just too much space.

I've had eggs partially dehydrate before to the point of dimpling in half way through incubation and then go on to hatch perfectly normal babies. Drying out may have been a contributing factor but I wouldn't say it was definitive. When I've had problems like this in the past myself (and I could pinpoint an actual cause) it was usually due to temperature spikes. I keep a digital thermometer with a min/max memory function in my incubator so I can track instances like this.

I'm very sorry for your loses, but don't beat yourself up over it. Everyone who breeds long enough will eventually have this happen to them and most of the time you'll never know the cause. I hope you have better luck with your next clutches.

I honestly don't think it was a dehydration issue. That type of deformity seems to be caused early in development. We hatched one out last year similar to that and you could tell something was wrong when you candled the egg about halfway through incubation. So don't beat your self up over it. I don't think you could have prevented it.

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So sorry for your results :( do you have a pic of your dinker?

The hottest the incubator got was I believe 90 or 91 and that was due to us not turning on the AC on a hot day and the whole house got a little warm. Other than that day it has stayed between 86-87. The other clutch was laid only a few days after this one and it never experienced dehydration issues. So far all of the babies appear healthy and not kinked (only one has hatched so far. Still waiting on 3 to hatch).

The reason I think dehydration was the issue is because the normal that is still left to hatch from this clutch was located right in the middle of the egg tub. During the dehydration issue there was still a little dampness to the vermiculite around his egg and his egg barely dimpled. From what I can tell, he does not appear kinked. We'll have to wait and see what he looks like when he comes out.

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Originally Posted by Mrl249

So sorry for your results :( do you have a pic of your dinker?

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http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps665364b1.jpg

With Flash
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...1232011005.jpg

Belly Shot
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...1232011027.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps665364b1.jpg

With Flash
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...1232011005.jpg

Belly Shot
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...1232011027.jpg

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Wow, that pattern and flames scream black pastel! But I'm not sure. Best of luck on the next clutch he sires!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps665364b1.jpg

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You know, when I first saw the little pin in question, my first thought was "jigsaw". I think you've got something going and it would be interesting to see what you get next season.

So sorry about the loss of your babies. :( They were all very pretty little pins. Hopefully that normal will come out healthy with no kinks.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

You know, when I first saw the little pin in question, my first thought was "jigsaw". I think you've got something going and it would be interesting to see what you get next season.

So sorry about the loss of your babies. :( They were all very pretty little pins. Hopefully that normal will come out healthy with no kinks.

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I first thought jigsaw also.

I'm sorry for the loss, it looks like these babies never had a chance. Kinking like that looks like it happened early on.
That dinker baby looked amazing, and I think you're right that you proved that there is something genetic there. Father looks awesome, where did you get him from? What were his parents?

I bought him from a Petsmart I used to work at so I don't know his parentage, but from what I've been told, Petsmart tends to sell captive hatched babies instead of captive bred.

What's a dinker??

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

What's a dinker??

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Was funnier when it said donker. still, you make me laugh http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...ng-ROFLMAO.gif

A dinker is an animal that has a particular physical characteristic (one or many characteristics) that you feel is different from "normal" and you think it might be genetic. You breed it to try and duplicate the pattern, color, etc that you feel is different. It looks like my boy has something going on. I'm going to breed him to a normal this coming season and possibly one more (not sure if it'll be a morph or not).

Sorry; I'm dumb lol

I once hatched out a spider that was kinked in a few spots down it's spine. It survived. it was the best looking spider I ever produced. (pattern wise) very different pattern. when you have issues in the egg with the development of a snake. it can alter the appearance of that snake. so if I was trying to prove out a dinker. it would have to be with hatchlings that didn't have any issues. sorry to hear about that clutch, good luck with the dinker. don

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Out of respect for these living creatures, I think that the only thing you have proven is that you need to show more respect for the lives of your snakes and less about proving your dinker.

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Where is this coming from? It was an accident in incubating.

Who are you to think someone doesn't respect the lives of their animals?

There's another name for my do not buy from list, that's for sure.

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Sorry to hear about your clutch. :(
Seems like pins aren't doing well this year. Coleslaw hatched a kinked/fused pin baby as well.

The dinker pin looks more like a cinny pin to me. The dinker parent looks more cinny than mojo to me as well, imo.
Good luck with proving out your dinker and future clutches!


And if it isn't too much trouble, would you mind reporting your experience in the 'Official Birth Defect Documentary Thread'?
Thank you very much.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...cture-warning*

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Where is this coming from? It was an accident in incubating.

Who are you to think someone doesn't respect the lives of their animals?

There's another name for my do not buy from list, that's for sure.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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Just because he said that doesn't mean you should add him to a "do not buy from" list. He merely thought that the subject of my post was disrespectful to the deceased because I "appeared" to show no grief in their passing an only an interest on whether or not I had proved out my dinker. I explained to him that this was not the case and he apologized so at this point it is a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Sorry to hear about your clutch. :(
Seems like pins aren't doing well this year. Coleslaw hatched a kinked/fused pin baby as well.

The dinker pin looks more like a cinny pin to me. The dinker parent looks more cinny than mojo to me as well, imo.
Good luck with proving out your dinker and future clutches!


And if it isn't too much trouble, would you mind reporting your experience in the 'Official Birth Defect Documentary Thread'?
Thank you very much.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...cture-warning*

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Thank you.

I will definitely post there to report my kink/deformity experiences.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Out of respect for these living creatures, I think that the only thing you have proven is that you need to show more respect for the lives of your snakes and less about proving your dinker.

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Wow! Really????? That was a really awful thing to say to someone that just lost a clutch! Have you no heart at all? At least you did apologize. I am so sorry for the loss of the little ones. That must have been heart wrenching. I have no words to make you feel better. This is the part about breeding that kind of scares me. I want to breed one day and I know that I may have to face issues like this. Thank you for sharing this and making me think a bit about this whole breeding dream of mine.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Just because he said that doesn't mean you should add him to a "do not buy from" list. He merely thought that the subject of my post was disrespectful to the deceased because I "appeared" to show no grief in their passing an only an interest on whether or not I had proved out my dinker. I explained to him that this was not the case and he apologized so at this point it is a non-issue.

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Its not so much in defense of you, as it is a principle. I've said somethings I'd expect people to put me on such a list. I get he apologized, but these threads are really common this time of year and it's a really good resource for those of us going to breed.



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Very sorry for you losses. :-/ They would have been beautiful.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

Wow! Really????? That was a really awful thing to say to someone that just lost a clutch! Have you no heart at all? At least you did apologize. I am so sorry for the loss of the little ones. That must have been heart wrenching. I have no words to make you feel better. This is the part about breeding that kind of scares me. I want to breed one day and I know that I may have to face issues like this. Thank you for sharing this and making me think a bit about this whole breeding dream of mine.

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Don't let images like these scare you away from breeding or cause you worry. When you hatch out healthy babies it is an amazing feeling. And it is especially rewarding to watch them grow. Even though I lost these babies, I will continue to breed snakes.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Its not so much in defense of you, as it is a principle. I've said somethings I'd expect people to put me on such a list. I get he apologized, but these threads are really common this time of year and it's a really good resource for those of us going to breed.



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But you cannot fault someone for a misunderstanding. He apologized and that's that. I understand it is not good to jump to conclusions and possibly offend someone, but when it is an honest misunderstanding, that doesn't make the person bad.

My advice... go substrateless from now on!!!

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

My advice... go substrateless from now on!!!

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I hear good things about this, then there's not as much guess work.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

My advice... go substrateless from now on!!!

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I'll have to look into this, but I've been using vermiculite for every clutch I've ever incubated and this is the only time I've ever had an issue with it.