When to assist feed?

I just purchased a very young BP from a reptile show Sunday, I was told she was being feed live fuzzy mice. After doing my research I know the smallest thing she should be
eating is a hopper mouse.

Now a little history about her she was purchased for school room purposes and the people who had her knew almost nothing about BP's
She is extremely under weight and seems to barely be able to hold her head up, at first I just figured she was stressed due to the fact that she was kept in
a small Tupperware container with no heat at the reptile show and she had been handled a lot by the classroom kids and people at the show.

I offered her a live hopper today and she was scared to death of the thing and balled up and ignored it and jerked it off when it got on her.
Because she doesn't really seem to be in control of her head and I haven't found a reptile vet in my area yet I was wondering if I should take her
to the pet shop that is about 45 minutes away that breeds ball pythons and see if they can show me how to assist feed until she gets her strength back.

what would you guys suggest?
She is not my first ball python but she is my first baby and the first I have ever seen with what seems like a very heavy head.
I have put a link to a picture of her to show how small she is it doesn't really show how loose her skin is but she does have skin folds.
Thank you in advance for any advice and help you can offer...

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1a2c6d25.jpg

How much does she weigh and what's your set up (temps, humidity, everything)? If you only just got her on Sunday, then you probably still need to give her time to adjust to being in a new environment. As much detail as you can give will help us help you :)

And if there's a chance you can get some better pictures to help us see her body condition, that would help to.

I have uploaded 6 new pictures of her you should be able to look trough them if not I can ad the individual links just let me know.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/...psf58aa33e.jpg

At the moment I have her in a 7qt Sterilite container with a heating pad under 1 3rd the temp on the hot side stays around 89 and the temp on the cool side is normally just at 80
the humiddity levels have been between 55 and 65
I don't have a scale so I am not sure what she weighs or exactly how old she is. The reason I say she is underweight is the way her skin just kinda hangs off of her or when I first got her it looked like she was laying in her skin when she was balled up. I first though she was dehydrated and gave her a little soak because she didn't seem to be drinking from her water bowl she did hold her little head under the water for a few minutes I did not see her open her mouth up but her skin seemed to get a bit tighter after this so I am assuming she did drink a little and was slightly dehydrated.

I didn't want to put her in a bigger container just yet until she started feeding on her own and started to pep up if you look at the picture where she is draped over my hand you can see the
little container they were keeping her in with no substrate whatsoever and no heat she was Ice cold when we got her or should I say colder than a normal BP is to the touch :)

for the most part she stays on the warm side of her container and only seems to be active when she is held she moves from the cool area to the hot but she doesn't explore or flicker her tongue much unless she is being held. my main scare is that she is so small and like I said seems like she really cant hold her head up well when she try's while moving around she's all wobbly and sometimes brushes the side of her little face against the ground when she is moving it almost looks like she is drunk.

If she's staying on the warm side all the time she's not warm enough. What kind of thermometer are you using? Are you sure it's accurate? I keep my Balls hot spot at around 95. You said a couple times "when I hold her". You should not hold her unless you absolutely have to until she is eating regularly and is stronger. I would not stress her out more by taking her to the pet store or assist feed her yet. Give her more time to settle in and start eating on her own. It's hard to tell her condition from pics and a description, but to be honest if she is really weak she probably would not survive the stress of a trip to the pet stop and assist feeding or especially (I know you didn't say this, I'm just saying) force feeding. Hope everything turns out OK.

At the moment I am using an analog thermometer hygrometer so I'm not 100% sure of it's accuracy I will be getting a digital one within the next few days to better monitor
her conditions.

I have only held her a few times since bringing her home I don't take her out an play with her just when I needed to get her pictures and when I soaked her I know both are stressful.
I only soaked her because I didn't want her getting more dehydrated and she hadn't shown an interest in her water bowl in two days.

Thank you for the advice I really hope she comes out of it she is such a sweet little girl.
How long can a little one go without eating? I have searched online but never really did get a straight answer.

I don't know about baby balls, but I had some newborn Childrens pythons that refused all attempts to get them feeding and died suddenly after about 2 months. your girl looks skinny, but not emaciated so you probably have some time. Good luck with her, I hope she does well too.:)

You need to get a temp gun or probed thermometer and KNOW your temperatures. She will not eat if she is too cold. Also, what are you using for hides and are you offering the hopper in or out of her enclosure?

Hello,

If you put a live prey item in there with her, her natural instinct will be too ball up, hense the name "Ball" python. She needs a hide. Take a small container, cut a hole in it and let her have a bit of security. When shes in the hide, put a rat pup in there and walk away! Leave her alone with the pup for an hour or more before you even so much as peak.

she has a small hide in there with her I took it out to take pictures. I haven't tried a rat pup yet, I would have to see if my pet shop carries them. I was considering getting two
fuzzy mice for her since she is used to eating them or so I was told anyway. I know they are not the rite size but getting her to eat anything to get some weight on her and strength in
her is my main goal at the moment. If I cant get a rat pup and she wont take the fuzzy's I will have to try FT.

I called and talked to a breeder that works at the pet shop I was talking about, she told me to try again next Wednesday and if she was not eating
to bring her in and she would look at her, also not to worry to much about her wobbly head right now that some baby snakes just have a wobbly head.
She also gave me the number to the reptile vet she uses so I can make an appointment to have her looked at if I am still concerned.

Thank you guys so much for your help so far, I will keep you posted as to how she is doing...

One additional thing that I just noticed - you said you've had her since Sunday. Leave her completely alone for the next 2-3 days before offering her another fuzzy. She has had zero chance to settle in with the move, soaking, and food offering all in only four days.

Just a quick update I set an appointment for Lucy to see the vet tomorrow. She is still not eating and has become less active :(
I Hope all goes well, I will let you know what the vet says tomorrow...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jolecerve

Just a quick update I set an appointment for Lucy to see the vet tomorrow. She is still not eating and has become less active :(
I Hope all goes well, I will let you know what the vet says tomorrow...

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Well I hope the vet can figure out what is wrong with Lucy and not try and rip you off. My first Albino boy died from starving himself to death, Vet told me nothing was wrong with him.

So I guess he died from stress/starvation, ever since this even after having BPS for over 2 years I get freaked out when they don't wanna eat.


Also you said this is a class room pet? Are you a biology or science teacher? Either way its really cool that you are teaching the young how reptiles deserve to be pets to!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BTennant

Well I hope the vet can figure out what is wrong with Lucy and not try and rip you off. My first Albino boy died from starving himself to death, Vet told me nothing was wrong with him.

So I guess he died from stress/starvation, ever since this even after having BPS for over 2 years I get freaked out when they don't wanna eat.


Also you said this is a class room pet? Are you a biology or science teacher? Either way its really cool that you are teaching the young how reptiles deserve to be pets to!

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Sorry to hear about your albino you should be able to rely on your vets to help your babies unfortunately things like that happen more often than they should...

I hope so too, I was told that the vet I am going to see actually keeps BP's as pets and is very Knowledgeable.

I wish I was the teacher unfortunately not, I purchased her from teachers. I do however have 3 children who are reptile lovers and if I ever start breeding BP's would love to see one or more of my babies as a classroom pet in the local schools.
Lucy and about 8 other babies were purchased by the teachers who are chameleon breeders, they keep them for a very short period of time to allow the children to interact and hold them then sell them at the reptile shows with there chameleon's.

Unfortunately they are not very Knowlegeable about BP's and told me such when I purchased her. They were feeding them 1 fuzzy mouse a week which is what led to her
being underweight when I got her. I don't want to overstep but have thought about contacting them again to let them know that they need to be feeding them at least a hopper mouse once a week. I would have thought being teachers they would have done there research before keeping that many babies and then selling them.
I probably should have not purchased her Knowing that they didn't know how to properly care for her but for only $25 I couldn't pass her by she is such a pretty little thing and I fell in love with her as soon as I saw her.
I just hope the trip to the vet tomorrow will be enough to help her...

Just got home from the vet, as I feared Lucy is to weak to eat on her own.
Her Dr Gave me Carnivore Care, an antibiotic, and showed me how to tube feed her.

She only weighs 54 grams and has almost no muscle tone.
She will be getting 2.5ml of her antibiotic and 2.5ml of Carnivore care once a day for
the next 7 days and if she is responding well I can then up the amount of Carnivore care gradually.
Once she passes a stool I will be taking it in to have it tested for parasites.

He fears she has not eaten in several months if ever and wants to get her GI track used to food.
if all goes well in about a month I can start offering her FT pinkies and eventually bigger pray.
I Just hope she has not contracted fatty liver disease from her previous neglect.

Just on a side note for anyone in the KC area is looking for a knowledgeable reptile vet
I highly recommend Lucy's new Dr, Dr Corey Entriken at Kansas City Veterinary Care
7240 Wornall Road Kansas City, MO 64114
816-333-4330

Not once did he ever say she was a lost cause, and you can tell he genuinely cares for his patients and
there well being. Hopefully Lucy will be going to him for many years to come.

Now to make contact with her previous owners, any advice on what to say or how to approach them?
I don't want to come off as rude or accusing but they need to know what is going on with her so they can
take the steps necessary to prevent this from happening to another defenseless baby BP in the future...

I can only recommend that you be as polite/gentle as possible, but don't sugar coat it. Let them know you're glad you got your little baby, but she's extremely weak and malnourished and will require specialized care if she's expected to make a full recovery. I would definitely express concern for any other balls that remain in their care, and advise them to critically look at their husbandry practices. If need be, get those other little ones medical attention ASAP. Just my .02

My bad not 2ml 0.25ml of antibiotic and 0.25ml of Carnivore Care
I thought that sounded like a bit much then I looked at the dosage and was correct
so my little baby wont even be getting a full ml into her little body but at this point something
is so much better than nothing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

I can only recommend that you be as polite/gentle as possible, but don't sugar coat it. Let them know you're glad you got your little baby, but she's extremely weak and malnourished and will require specialized care if she's expected to make a full recovery. I would definitely express concern for any other balls that remain in their care, and advise them to critically look at their husbandry practices. If need be, get those other little ones medical attention ASAP. Just my .02

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Thank you for your advice.
I agree I'm just so upset that she is in this state and it could have been prevented and didn't want to just blow up on them.
With any luck Lucy's misfortune can prevent other animals from suffering this way.

Well you seem to be handling it fairly well. I know that many wouldn't even bother taking a $25 snake to the vet, which is a shame. I'll be rooting for the little guy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Well you seem to be handling it fairly well. I know that many wouldn't even bother taking a $25 snake to the vet, which is a shame. I'll be rooting for the little guy!

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Thank you again.

It is defiantly a shame, I don't feel that the "Value" of an animal should determine the Value of it's life. By purchasing an animal we take the responsibility to ensure
that it is properly cared for no matter what the cost!
So I had to spend another 85 dollars on her to get her what she needs, if she survives I am going to be getting 30+ years of affection and enjoyment out of her, if for some reason she
does not make it then at least I know I did all I could do to help her:)

I can report she took her first feeding/med's well, with little fuss and she kept it down, so I am very hopeful that
she will continue to do well and get a little stronger every day. I will keep you guys posted as to how she is doing :)

A quick Update for those of you following Lucy's progress. Today is day 8 her first day on 0.50ml of Carnivore Care she is keeping it all down :)
She is not gaining any weight by any means but she is still hanging in there. Hopefully after this week we can thicken it up and she can start getting some weight back on her,
I can't wait! Still a long way to go until then. I will update every other week or so as we go along...

Good to hear she's hanging in there! Hopefully she bulks up soon :)


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Just an update... I know it has been forever and I am so sorry about that...
Lucy is doing great she had her first shed today... It's been slow going and a little difficult at times, what her vet told me was a bite from a mouse turned out to be
a blister that of course ended up turning into about a total of 5 blisters. Thank goodness her vet put her on antibiotics for two weeks, or they could have gotten much worse than they did.
It seems like they have all cleared up after her shed today I won't be able to give her a good look over until tomorrow, don't want to mess up her new skin... Thank you all for all of the support and for keeping up with my little girl. Looks like she's going to make a full recovery :)

I just saw this post and I have to tell you... you are an amazing person!!!! I am so happy you did everything for this poor little girl. And I'm sure she thanks you too!! I'm glad she's doing well, congrats on bringing her back :)

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Good news, so glad to hear that Lucy is doing better!

I'm so glad that she's doing well!! Thanks to you :D