Growth and Longevity

Well, I've been researching the growth of BP's lately, and I came across this:

Quote:

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Feeding should be done on a random basis since all snakes are opportunistic feeders in the wild. The amount and size of prey should vary as well to help to fulfill the snakes' opportunistic feeding habits. Most breeders will recommend regular feedings and specific size prey animals, but remember their goals are to raise and animal fast so that it reaches sexual maturity in a hurry, not to provide the best possible captive long-term environment. There is nothing wrong with this method either it is just geared toward rapid growth for the purposes of breeding since a snake's growth is related to the amount it eats. The only problem with a constant set diet appears to be that it shortens the over all life span of the animal. Random feeders seem to live longer according to most veterinary studies.

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From this link:
http://www.angelfire.com/al/repticare/page21.html

Info on the author here:
http://www.angelfire.com/al/repticare/page32.html

Any thoughts?

I'd like to see one of those "studies" or some references from this guy. All of his other info seems about right, but why would a regular feeding schedule would shorted the life span of an animal? I can't see how keeping an animal's metabolism steady would have negative effects on its overall health, regardless if its diet is random in the wild. If anything, I would think a snake that kind of knew when a meal was going to come, would also be much less stressed than an animal that is constantly on the lookout for a prey item that may come in 30 seconds or 30 days.

But then again, I'm no biologist....

I'd like to see the studies as well, since animals tend to live longer in captivity with veterinary care and protection from predators than they do in the wild.

I'm confused. If those are the results of veterinary studies - why do our vets tell us to feed a consistent schedule, etc?

Yeah I think the statement that the author made was based purely on speculation that it is "healthier" to simulate the snake's natural environment down to the last small detail. So I guess that means we should also stress them out by giving them regular contact with predators. :roll:

I think he didn't word his thoughts properly...

I think he implied overfeeding, as he mentioned rapid growth. Of course, obesity is not a problem with younger ball pythons. However, I just read elsewhere higher caloric intake early in an animal's life will reduce longevity. This was tested in rodents, so it may not be applicable to ball pythons or other reptiles. So, perhaps overfeeding results in faster growth instead of obesity in younger animals, but may still have negative long-term effects.

Anyway, I guess the real question I'm putting out for debate then is, "Are young ball pythons (or all other herps even) fed too much?".

I presume that in the wild, young ball pythons probably don't find food that much more often than full grown adults. However, if we were to feed adults with the same frequency that we feed babies and juveniles, the adults would be sure to become morbidly obese.

Just some "food for thought" so to speak ;P

I would say it is more a matter of feeding too much and not getting enough exersize. People let their Bps get fat, which is what shortens their life span, not the regularity of their feedings. Wild caught specimens also have to hunt for their food. They get more exercize. On the flip side though captive borns dont have perasites, they have a constant enviroment, and less stress.
Captive born lives longer hands down.
I do not think "random feeding" helps anything. Just dont let your bp get fat.
There is no sense in reducing its nutritional intake by feeding different sizes (aka pinkies/fuzzies) which are more fattening.

I would agree that some people do feed too much, but Ive seen both ends of the spectrum there. I go about 8 or 9 days with mine. They are both healthy looking (id give ya weights but I dont have a scale yet). They are about 6 months old.
He does bring in a valid point about over feeding, but the whole random feeding is nonsense.

Well, he didn't necessarily imply feeding pinkies/fuzzies... perhaps feeding a rat one week, a mouse the next, etc...

A varied diet could be beneficial... however, with animals like snakes that eat their prey items whole, a lot of that benefit is probably diminished. There still could be a worthwile benefit though.

I think, either way, it's pretty tough to test these theories out on ball pythons given their long lifespan. I presume the author based his information from "veterinary studies" on other animals like rodents.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

According to that link, limiting growth in suckling male mice prolongs their lives as well as making them less susceptible to obesity.

makes plenty sense to me. he's absolutely right.

Hmm - I know in AfRocks they have found that specimens who eat more live shorter lives, and recently caught a bit on the science channel where they cited Okinawans (represent) live exceptionally low lives due to low overall caloric intake. It has been suggested previously (in general terms) that your life-span may be more closely tied to a caloric ceiling rather than the number of beats your heart is capable of etc.

While I might find it plausible I won't be switching from my scheduled feedings.

corn snakes love anoles, doesn't mean you should feed them anoles..... if you catch my drift.

Even if I am an anole-freak? ;)

Well, through the research I've been doing, I've come across the term "Power Feeding", as well as having just seen it in the other thread. "Power Feeding", I take it means accelerated growth through overgenerous feeding. It also seems that it's known to reduce life span. How many of you have heard the term before, and how many of you agree/disagree with the practice?

Heard it and disagree with it. I don't know why people are sometimes in a hurry to have their snakes get big (well, I have theories). I can't stand when I see a post titled "how can I make my snake grow faster/bigger".

Power feeding sounds like an unhealthy practice to me, like trying to rush something that shouldnt be rushed namely the growth of the animal. As far as a regular feeding schedule go's I like to determine when the nest feeding is by how large the last feeding was. If my snakes realy packed it away last time, Ill give them an extra day or two before offering another meal, if it seemed barely enough Ill offer a meal 6 or 7 days later. This is more for my STP than my BP since my Bp I dont think will ever overeat ,on the otherhand he will waste food so I use the same rule of thumb for him although for different reasons.

Well what exactly is powerfeeding? Feeding every 5 days? Every 3 days?

I doubt most snakes would eat every 3 days.. (ya never know though)
Ive heard 4 or 5 days to be power feeding.
power feeding is bad news

I really think people make all of this too complicated though. If your ball python is getting fat or growing too quickly, slow down the feedings. If it is too skinny, or is not growing when it should be, speed them up.
You find a good middle ground. I think you just need to get a feel for your bp. Im sure some are different then others which is why I hesitate to state an exact number of days ya know?

My kings would eat every day if I let them!

The site quoted was las updated on November 7, 1999 ... almost 5 years ago. Maybe he was going off of information available to him at the time. Not being into reptiles 5 years ago myself, i wouldnt know whether this was normal information then or not. I would be interested in seeing these studies he is referring to, and whether others have been done since then. I would venture to guess that these kinds of studies have been done since he obtained his information. The scientific commuinty changes its stance on things all the time. Just something i thought of.