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Deformed ball python
I found a local ball that is "deformed". He is free to a good home, I'm wondering if it would be better for the snake to just be put down or if it is possible for it to live a "healthy" life. Here is the link, I also copied and pasted the text. I e-mailed the owner asking more about it.
This Mojave ball has a deformity of the right mandible, probably caused by a heat spike in incubation. Because of this, *he cannot eat on his own* and can't consume food larger than rat pinks. It's quite a bit easier to syringe feed him, however.
He is free to the right home.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/pet/3905278855.html
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexiTLO
I found a local ball that is "deformed". He is free to a good home, I'm wondering if it would be better for the snake to just be put down or if it is possible for it to live a "healthy" life. Here is the link, I also copied and pasted the text. I e-mailed the owner asking more about it.
This Mojave ball has a deformity of the right mandible, probably caused by a heat spike in incubation. Because of this, *he cannot eat on his own* and can't consume food larger than rat pinks. It's quite a bit easier to syringe feed him, however.
He is free to the right home.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/pet/3905278855.html
Should be put down in my opinion.
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I asked for pictures and how old it was. I wonder if I would be able to talk them into putting it down depending on its quality of life... It just doesn't seem like there would be much to live for if it can't even feed itself. Anyone have any idea how much it would cost to euthanize a snake?
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IMO, it sounds like it would be better for that snake to be euthanized.
An animal that must be force fed to stay alive probably has a low quality of life. Then you have to wonder if it's painful for the snake to be force fed.
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Deformed ball python
Any snake that cannot eat/poop on their own should be put down. I think it's cruel to keep them living for ones own enjoyment.
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Re: Deformed ball python
If he cannot eat on his own without human aide and is failing to thrive, I do believe he should be humanely euthanized.
Poor guy. :(
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I would say that, sadly, euthanasia is the most humane thing to do. There are several methods listed in this forum, please take a look at each carefully
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Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexiTLO
I asked for pictures and how old it was. I wonder if I would be able to talk them into putting it down depending on its quality of life... It just doesn't seem like there would be much to live for if it can't even feed itself. Anyone have any idea how much it would cost to euthanize a snake?
If you can stomach it, you can do it for free at your house.
I know most will suggest completely destroying the brain as one of the most humane methods.
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbafett
If you can stomach it, you can do it for free at your house.
I know most will suggest completely destroying the brain as one of the most humane methods.
I have never done anything like that myself. I did make a co2 chamber for some ASFs when I had my tegus. Would that work? I know freezing is out of the question. I'm not sure if I could decapitate something, even though it would probably be doing the poor thing a favor. Normally I would never think of replying to something like that but I would hate for it to go to a home where someone attempts to keep it alive any longer.
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbafett
If you can stomach it, you can do it for free at your house.
I know most will suggest completely destroying the brain as one of the most humane methods.
Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexiTLO
I have never done anything like that myself. I did make a co2 chamber for some ASFs when I had my tegus. Would that work? I know freezing is out of the question. I'm not sure if I could decapitate something, even though it would probably be doing the poor thing a favor. Normally I would never think of replying to something like that but I would hate for it to go to a home where someone attempts to keep it alive any longer.
Instantaneous brain destruction would be the most humane at home euthanasia method. So smashing or crushing the head....
Vets will use anesthesia overdose or cardiac puncture.
Co2 is considered cruel due reptiles going through periods of apnea. They don't need much oxygen to survive and can go long periods without it. It could take hours to put down a reptile via co2, which could be agonizing. And a reptile could potentially survive a co2 chamber.
Decapitation is also not humane. The head can still be alive and feel pain up to 30+ minutes after its been cut off.
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Deformed ball python
Co2 won't work on reptiles. :(
Pithing or an injection from the bet are basically you're only options AS FAR AS I KNOW.
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Thanks for the fast replies everyone. Hopefully they e-mail me back. Sorry if its too much for some of you but....
if it were to have its head smashed, would I need to worry about any brain activity? It seems like a silly question but I've read stories about snakes having brain activity for an hour or so after being decapitated. I would obviously want it to be as quick as possible.
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexiTLO
Thanks for the fast replies everyone. Hopefully they e-mail me back. Sorry if its too much for some of you but....
if it were to have its head smashed, would I need to worry about any brain activity? It seems like a silly question but I've read stories about snakes having brain activity for an hour or so after being decapitated. I would obviously want it to be as quick as possible.
Smashing the head would be instantaneous, I would think. As far as decapitation, I don't know. You're not destroying the brain, just cutting it off from the rest of the body. I suppose there would be a chance of suffering??? Not sure. :confusd:
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by satomi325
Yup.
Instantaneous brain destruction would be the most humane at home euthanasia method. So smashing or crushing the head....
Vets will use anesthesia overdose or cardiac puncture.
Co2 is considered cruel due reptiles going through periods of apnea. They don't need much oxygen to survive and can go long periods without it. It could take hours to put down a reptile via co2, which could be agonizing. And a reptile could potentially survive a co2 chamber.
Decapitation is also not humane. The head can still be alive and feel pain up to 30+ minutes after its been cut off.
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While I agree with everyone on here that the snake would probably be best off if it were put down....
Is it morally okay to take an animal, promising to give it a good home when you fully intend to kill it?
Although we think we know what's best for the animal, it's not our call to make right now. It's someone else's pet and they(supposedly) have been caring for it for some time and are making an effort to find someone else to care for it. They are not looking for someone to kill it.
Not that it's not "the right thing to do" to euthanize any animal for quality of life issues... but really, we could extend that to some of the PETA folks who would happily "adopt" free pets from any of us and put them down because "wild animals cannot be happy in captivity".
Just my $0.02.
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Re: Deformed ball python
As a breeder euthanizing an animal is never easy and itīs always a personal call which often depends on the quality of life that the animal will have.
An animal that is deformed brought that he cannot eat on his own, has no quality of life in my opinion and it should be put down.
I am gonna assume this person is just not capable of dealing with this kind of thing which is inevitable when breeding :(
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy-hound
While I agree with everyone on here that the snake would probably be best off if it were put down....
Is it morally okay to take an animal, promising to give it a good home when you fully intend to kill it?
Although we think we know what's best for the animal, it's not our call to make right now. It's someone else's pet and they(supposedly) have been caring for it for some time and are making an effort to find someone else to care for it. They are not looking for someone to kill it.
Not that it's not "the right thing to do" to euthanize any animal for quality of life issues... but really, we could extend that to some of the PETA folks who would happily "adopt" free pets from any of us and put them down because "wild animals cannot be happy in captivity".
Just my $0.02.
In this situation, I personally think its morally fine to take in this animal with full intention of euthanasia. The snake cannot eat or thrive on its own without aide due to the deformity. The owner has no intention of euthanizing the animal himself and is deluded that it is humane to let this snake live with a poor quality of life. Being syringed food is no life. Being able to only eat very undersized prey at best means it will either be stunted or vastly underweight.
Comparing this to PETA is ridiculous. PETA takes in HEALTHY animals with NO issues, then puts them down. Those animals are not handicapped so much where they need to be spoon fed their meals to survive. If they were, then I don't see a problem. But unfortunately, they are not. They are generally healthy animals with no issues.
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Re: Deformed ball python
I agree with most of the above statements. I would put the BP down if it cannot feed on its own. I hate to ever think of putting an animal down, but sometimes it is for the best. Good luck!
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Re: Deformed ball python
I'm going to partially disagree.
I would not promise to give the snake a good home then have it put down.
I would recommend putting it down - but I would have to be 100% honest with the person who has it about that and explain to them exactly why.
If they decided not to give it to me at that point fair enough.
The very fact PETA lie about it should make it abundantly clear we should not.
I'm not convinced that you can ever have a moral outcome based on an immoral act.
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy-hound
Is it morally okay to take an animal, promising to give it a good home when you fully intend to kill it?
Humane euthanasia is not the worst fate that can befall an animal. That said, I wouldn't lie to the current owner.
Quote:
Although we think we know what's best for the animal, it's not our call to make right now. It's someone else's pet and they(supposedly) have been caring for it for some time and are making an effort to find someone else to care for it. They are not looking for someone to kill it.
Actually we don't know that it's been a pet. The breeder could have put up the CL post, and if that's the case IMO he is shirking his responsiblity.
Quote:
Not that it's not "the right thing to do" to euthanize any animal for quality of life issues... but really, we could extend that to some of the PETA folks who would happily "adopt" free pets from any of us and put them down because "wild animals cannot be happy in captivity".
There's a big difference between culling an animal because it is in constant pain, sick with a debilitating disease, or has other quality of life issues that will never improve, versus taking one that is healthy and could live a long life just to put it down. PETA also didn't limit its activities to wild animals, they got thousands of dogs and cats from shelters and other rescues over the years just so the animals could be euthed and the bodies tossed in a dumpster.
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy-hound
While I agree with everyone on here that the snake would probably be best off if it were put down....
Is it morally okay to take an animal, promising to give it a good home when you fully intend to kill it?
Although we think we know what's best for the animal, it's not our call to make right now. It's someone else's pet and they(supposedly) have been caring for it for some time and are making an effort to find someone else to care for it. They are not looking for someone to kill it.
Not that it's not "the right thing to do" to euthanize any animal for quality of life issues... but really, we could extend that to some of the PETA folks who would happily "adopt" free pets from any of us and put them down because "wild animals cannot be happy in captivity".
Just my $0.02.
I don't think anyone said they were going to do that? :confusd: The OP said they were going to try to convince the people with the snake to euthanize it.
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Re: Deformed ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy-hound
While I agree with everyone on here that the snake would probably be best off if it were put down....
Is it morally okay to take an animal, promising to give it a good home when you fully intend to kill it?
Although we think we know what's best for the animal, it's not our call to make right now. It's someone else's pet and they(supposedly) have been caring for it for some time and are making an effort to find someone else to care for it. They are not looking for someone to kill it.
Not that it's not "the right thing to do" to euthanize any animal for quality of life issues... but really, we could extend that to some of the PETA folks who would happily "adopt" free pets from any of us and put them down because "wild animals cannot be happy in captivity".
Just my $0.02.
I didn't say I would give it a good home or care for it or anything like that. They still haven't replied, maybe they're a forum member... I would be honest about it if they replied to me, I was asking more about the situation.
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Re: Deformed ball python
They found another home for him I guess. Thanks anyway guys.
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Re: Deformed ball python
I can actually put a REAL .02 into this, as I have experienced this (almost) exact situation. We had to recently put down our little bee Nadia, because of the very thing you describe. If you want the details, just search the threads about her(Nadia)...I made a few. In a nutshell, we put her down because it was the right thing to do for everyone....mostly her. It took me and my husband a long time... months and months of trying everything, never giving up, doing everything we could to keep her alive...to realize that she had NO quality if life. In addition, it took the "eyes" of soo many others to help us see what was the right choice in the end. Its VERY,VERY hard to let go of a pet. And sometimes when we hold on soo strong, it takes the assistance of others to help us "see" what we are not confronting. You should tell that person, in a kind and supporting way, that HUMANE euthanasia really is the best for that animal. Direct them to this forum. Or even me. And if they seem, or even blatantly comment they don't care about the animal and just want to see it gone, THEN step in and take the animal to be humanely euthanized. That's fair, imo. Good luck to you...and the poor snake.
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I understand that it's the opinions of most in this thread(and my own opinion as well) that the snake would be better off humanely euthanized.
I'm also aware that the OP did not explicitly say they would "adopt" the snake then euthanize it. But many in the thread were saying that would be right, or implying they would do that in similar circumstance.
And PETA thinks that the animal held as a pet is "suffering" because it's in captivity. It is a valid comparison. The snake may not mind the tube feeding much, they can get used to things. Or it could be in great distress every single time it's handled because of the tube feeding sessions. We think it is "probably" suffering and it would be better off dead.
But lying to someone to take a pet and kill it because in your opinion the pet is better off humanely euthanized is immoral, no matter how valid you feel your opinion is. It's wrong when PETA does it to perfectly healthy animals and in my opinion, it's wrong if you take someone's puppy who needs a special diet and euthanize it and again, in my opinion, it's wrong to take a snake saying you're giving it a good home while fully intending to kill it.
Best for the snake? I'm 99% certain it would be. But that still doesn't make it a Right act to do.
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