Should I get a fecal done?

I apologize if I should have posted this in the regular husbandry forum, but I'd like the advice of more advanced keepers.

I'm worried about one of my females, she barely eats, she's a mouser but will only eat one (or rarely two) every 2-3 weeks, which is insufficient for a 1000g snake. Her poop is VERY smelly, and tends to be soft. I think husbandry is good, she's in an AP rack, on paper, with warm/cool zone hides, temps 80-90, humidity 40-60%, no shed issues.

Our local exotic vet does fecal work-ups, I'm wondering if I should give that a try? Could this be caused by a heavy parasite load? Also, if this is a good idea, does anyone have any advice about getting a sample out of her for analysis? If she was a tortoise I'd just put her in the bath, but I'm not sure how to entice a bp to poop.

Thanks!

ETA: I think I can get her to switch to rats once this issue is resolved.

I have noticed the quality of feed that goes in has a great deal to do with the smell when it comes out. When I get snakes in from other breeders that have not been here long yet, their defecation usually smells a bit differently than all of my snakes. I don't mean to say I have the highest quality of feeders, although I like to think they're pretty damn good since I raise them myself and give them tons of love/good food. For a while after I got my het pied pair in their defecation was runny and also smelled bad. I got them both on rats as soon as they arrived here as I have done with all my other snakes and their poop is solid now.

I'm not saying don't take your snake to get a check up if you feel it needs one, but I would not wait to get them on to rats if I can help it. I feel rats provide a lot more fat and nutrition that helps out in younger/older snakes. My butter enchi male I just got in on Tuesday took his first rat meal in his life for me on Friday, with no hesitation at all. Has yet to defecate since I have had him but I will be keeping a nose and eye out for any differences.

She was on rats when I first got her, but was sporadically eating and refusing more and more, so I offered mice. She took these for a while and is now refusing them as well. Her BM's aren't as smelly as they were when she first arrived, but she's still by far the smelliest of my snakes.

I look at it like this. To get a fecal here isn't much, under $30. So why not? If doing this will help you feel better and worry less and you have the extra $15-20, then go for it.

If you have the money to spend I'd recommend a fecal to rule out any problems; I'd ask first though to see what method they use

if they just do simple floatations I wouldn't waste my time, as hey tend to not show the parasites very well. Try to get them to do a centrifugation or a sedimentation, as they are the more accurate methods.

if you could let me know how your vet responds to the questions too, that would be great :)

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

If you have the money to spend I'd recommend a fecal to rule out any problems; I'd ask first though to see what method they use

if they just do simple floatations I wouldn't waste my time, as hey tend to not show the parasites very well. Try to get them to do a centrifugation or a sedimentation, as they are the more accurate methods.

if you could let me know how your vet responds to the questions too, that would be great :)

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Well being I didn't know this I'll have to ask what my local one does. I know they said something about putting it under a microscope. So which way is the best?

The cost isn't an issue, and they're an exotics only vet and good with questions. I'll call and check which method they use. I just wanted to confirm that it seems like an appropriate next step, and also get some advice on how to get a "sample" out of her.

ETA: Called and made appoinment for tomorrow afternoon.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

The cost isn't an issue, and they're an exotics only vet and good with questions. I'll call and check which method they use. I just wanted to confirm that it seems like an appropriate next step, and also get some advice on how to get a "sample" out of her.

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When I called about a fecal they said to get get fresh fecal and to put it in a ziploc bag or some kind of plastic cup with a lid on it. It can't be a day old or anything. I was told as soon as you notice the snake doing it, get it and bring it in. So other then that I won't be able to tell you how because I've never done it, though I plan on doing it when I can catch my Rufous Beaked Snakes pooping.

They said bring her in to have the vet look her over, then based on that and her history they may or may not deworm her straight away and get the sample when it comes out. They can do solid or float analysis in-house, and contract with a separate lab for dna if required.

It's good you're taking her in for an exam as well, since if she does have parasites, vets are legally required to have seen the animal in order to prescribe medication. Soft, stinky poo makes me think it's likely she has parasites. Sometimes they can go off food if the parasite load is high enough as well.

Any fecal is going to be looked at under a microscope, since parasite eggs are microscopic. The best way to have it looked at is a centrifuged float sample, the next best is a regular (which is not centrifuged) float, and the last is direct smear.

A snake will often defecate when soaked in warm water for a time, say 15-20 minutes, and you can collect it and keep it refrigerated until you take it in. If she won't go for you, when you get to the clinic, they'll probably use a fecal loop to try to get a sample. Even if they don't get one right then, keep a paper towel handy, because the act of looping them will often make them poop! Just last week, we had a guy's BP poo on him 5 minutes after we looped her for a sample; I had forgotten to warn him about that! :D

Thanks everyone for the quick advice. We just got back from the vet's, he was able to get a little runny sample out of her. Fecal showed no parasites, but some kind of bacterial bloom (forgot the name of the bacteria). She got a big dose of antibiotics tubed in, and I get to do IM injections for the next two weeks.

Does giardia ring a bell? What medication did he send you home with?

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Originally Posted by Sita

It's good you're taking her in for an exam as well, since if she does have parasites, vets are legally required to have seen the animal in order to prescribe medication. Soft, stinky poo makes me think it's likely she has parasites. Sometimes they can go off food if the parasite load is high enough as well.

Any fecal is going to be looked at under a microscope, since parasite eggs are microscopic. The best way to have it looked at is a centrifuged float sample, the next best is a regular (which is not centrifuged) float, and the last is direct smear.

A snake will often defecate when soaked in warm water for a time, say 15-20 minutes, and you can collect it and keep it refrigerated until you take it in. If she won't go for you, when you get to the clinic, they'll probably use a fecal loop to try to get a sample. Even if they don't get one right then, keep a paper towel handy, because the act of looping them will often make them poop! Just last week, we had a guy's BP poo on him 5 minutes after we looped her for a sample; I had forgotten to warn him about that! :D

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soft sticky poop is indicate of parasite???

now i'm a little worry. I've had my bps from when they are 300g and they have been amazing eaters for me all the way until now, both of them both just hit 1000g with one of them at around 1100g and they both refuse two week in a row now (show massive interest in the rat, even coils but shy away at the last moment, they were both beast before they hit the 1000g mark). the things is they have ALWAYS had soft poop, I just thought that I found them before they got all hard. my carpet the newer addition of the family however always seems to leave me hard poop, I chalk that up for the carpet's poop being 20x smaller than the bp's and thus dries out faster... but should i be worry now? they have refuse for 2 week and it doesn't look like i'm gonna get a poop sample out of them anytime soon. One of my bp tends to urine alot though...

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Originally Posted by Sita

Does giardia ring a bell? What medication did he send you home with?

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Not giardia, I think something related to salmonella. Enrofloxacin preloaded in little syringes, supposed to inject every 48 hours. He thought stress from shipping (got her a few months ago) weakened her immume system and let her gut flora get off balance, leading to the slow decline.

Nearly all snakes are going to have parasites, simply due to the fact that they eat whole prey. Rats and mice commonly carry parasites that then live in the snake when eaten. I would say that 90% of the snakes that we do fecals on have some kind of parasite. Ones that eat live prey are going to be more susceptible than ones that eat F/T, because the freezing kills some of rodent's internal parasites. Freezing doesn't kill all of them though, and the length of time the rodent is frozen also plays a part in it.

But you have to remember, just because a snake has parasites, doesn't mean it has a problem. The severity of the issue will depend on the snake's health, age, immune system, etc. For example, if you have two snakes the same age, but one is fed properly and housed in a proper environment and the other is underfed and/or housed poorly, the one that is in better health could deal with the same number of parasites that could potentially kill the second snake.

From my own personal experience, and from the samples we get in the clinic, the snake poo that looks like dog or cat poo, i.e. firm, holds a shape, some odor but not horrible, rarely has parasites. The poos that are mushy or stinky often have parasites.

Another symptom of having problems with parasites is refusal to eat. Not saying that it would be the reason for yours, but it's something we consider with snakes.

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Not giardia, I think something related to salmonella. Enrofloxacin preloaded in little syringes, supposed to inject every 48 hours. He thought stress from shipping (got her a few months ago) weakened her immume system and let her gut flora get off balance, leading to the slow decline.

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Oh, ok. That's the generic of Baytril. That's good that he gave you injectable rather than oral; they don't process it the same way mammals do, so injectable works better for their system. I'm sure he showed you how to do the injections, but be sure you angle downward enough, because when given just under the skin instead of in the muscle like it should be, it can cause skin damage and scarring.

I hope that is all that is going on with her! *fingers crossed* :)

I'm assuming he didn't see them since it was such a small sample (like 2ml), but she did get a deworming along with the antibiotics. We decided to go agressive on this since she's not only refusing food, but losing weight. If she's not feeling better after the antibiotics he wants to do a fecal culture and bloodwork.

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Originally Posted by Sita

Oh, ok. That's the generic of Baytril. That's good that he gave you injectable rather than oral; they don't process it the same way mammals do, so injectable works better for their system. I'm sure he showed you how to do the injections, but be sure you angle downward enough, because when given just under the skin instead of in the muscle like it should be, it can cause skin damage and scarring.

I hope that is all that is going on with her! *fingers crossed* :)

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They did show me, she was NOT happy, but I feel hopeful this is going to resolve with the antibiotics. That's good to know about the scarring though, they didn't tell me that part.

She just got her last injection, refused a small rat, and then ate 5 mice! Not ideal, but I'd rather deal with switching her off of mice than not eating at all.