Really weird Black Pastel or something else?

Hi guys, this is my first post on this forum and i would like to have your oppinion on this:

A few days ago a guy posted this "Black Pastel" for sale, i´ve been reading and looking at pictures but i havent found one single black that looks like this one, what do you think?

the pattern is weird, lots of blush and the typical donuts in the pattern.... could this be just a weird black pastel or maybe something else?

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8999/9g63.jpg

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4999/p93j.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/4708/5nog.jpg

thanks a lot guys!

The reason it doesn't look like a black pastel is because it isn't a black pastel.

Looks like a Yellowbelly to me.

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Originally Posted by bhreptiles

the reason it doesn't look like a black pastel is because it isn't a black pastel.

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x2! :d

Not looking like a black pastel (unless it´s low quality and the lighting is bad also ) however interesting enough to pickup (if the price is right) to try to pair to a Mojave. (may change my mind if I see the belly)

As the others have said - it's not a black pastel but it sure is interesting. :)

If I saw that for a decent price I'd definitely want to try and see if it produces any interesting offspring.

I really think that is a yellowbelly... I would pick it up and pair it with a yellowbelly personally. Male or Female? what price tag are they asking? good luck! Keep us posted!

Calder

Looks yellowbelly to me from the top view as well.

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Thanks alot for all the answers guys, this "black pastel" is a male and the seller has a very good reputation in my country thats why i got confused about this male i know it has a weird pattern and i can see the donuts but i can also see the flames on the sides,

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Not looking like a black pastel (unless it´s low quality and the lighting is bad also ) however interesting enough to pickup (if the price is right) to try to pair to a Mojave. (may change my mind if I see the belly)

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The seller actually sad the light on the pictures its pretty bad but i asked him for pics of the belly for you guys to see, this boy it was for sale on Express Auction and i won for 142 USD and its about 400 gr, is that a good price?

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1330/92a5.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2389/ac1l.jpg

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As the others have said - it's not a black pastel but it sure is interesting. :)

If I saw that for a decent price I'd definitely want to try and see if it produces any interesting offspring.

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Thats what i did!:D i know its weird but it was for auction and i won for 142 USD the paper work says Black Pastel according to the seller, and its a reputable seller and breeder so....:confusd:
i really hope it can give me something special

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I really think that is a yellowbelly... I would pick it up and pair it with a yellowbelly personally. Male or Female? what price tag are they asking? good luck! Keep us posted!

Calder

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I already made the payment and i will pick it up in person on saturday morning, what do you think? its a male of 400 gr


I really hope the new pics can be helpfull guys thanks alot!.

Sorry guys i meant to say

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The seller actually said

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I really hope the new pics can be helpful

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:D

It's definitely an interesting addition, that belly looks clear to me though. Huh! Definitely an interesting thing to mess around with, keep us informed!

I would say it has some black pastel features.

Pretty strange right?

Looks a bit like some chocolates I've produced that I believe are het pied. Did the seller produce this one and if not where did they get it?

I'd ask about the history of that snake. Very unique looking.

Hi guys

The seller didnt breed this male, he bought it to another seller who i just talked to and he says hes 100% sure hes a black pastel and that even when he didnt breed it he would search for the invoice and he would tell me who´s the original breeder, it looks like this male came from a big breeder in the U.S.A so until now its unknown where this rare male came from

what do you guys think? im hoping this male has something special going on inside.:)

For some reason I can't quote your post, so I'll just say it.

I honestly wouldn't take the word of the guy you bought it from as I think he's just lying to you. I think he's just telling you what you want to hear, and unless he actually shows you the paperwork I'd take what he says with a grain of salt. Now I could be wrong, and I've gone by this saying for a long time: "Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see." He would remember who he got the snake from and even he has a lot of snake one would presume he has experience and he had enough since to know it wasn't a Black Pastel.

You can hope if you want, but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up. I'm willing to bet he doesn't produce that paperwork. Now it's a nice snake and all but I've learned from experience that if you give a stranger a chance to get over on you, then they usually will.

Neal im glad you take your time on posting and reading:), i dont think the same way you do because if i´d live that way i woudnt trust in anyone and probably my life would be a mess because humans need trust in order to advance by making relations,

i think you missunderstood what i posted, the seller who made the auction bought this male to another person, a reputable seller and breeder also, thats the person who i talked to he said the snake was hes and that he bought it and even when he didnt remember the breeder who came from he would search the paperwork and will show me, i mean to this person it doesnt matter anymore if it is a black pastel or something else you know? he was pretty kind when i talked to him and i never told him i would buy the snake or anything else i just made a question about a snake "i saw" and gave him photos of the actual snake, i dont know if this is a male black pastel, yellow belly or something else because its not in my hands yet, but i can tell you from the pictures that the male and female YB that i own doesnt look anything like this male

but im still waiting to saturday to see him in person so then i can tell what does exactly i see :D

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Originally Posted by Neal

I think he's just telling you what you want to hear...

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Would they want to hear that it is a black pastel or that it's a weird unknown dinker? Nothing against black pastels but I'd be more interested in the possibility it's something else. Doesn't sound like it's happening this time as the claim is it is a black pastel but I may have seen cases where weird captive bred are represented as imports to up their dinker status.

It's not a ton of money, line breed it and see what comes out. A good shot of the back of the head might help me tell if it's chocolate or not.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Would they want to hear that it is a black pastel or that it's a weird unknown dinker? Nothing against black pastels but I'd be more interested in the possibility it's something else. Doesn't sound like it's happening this time as the claim is it is a black pastel but I may have seen cases where weird captive bred are represented as imports to up their dinker status.

It's not a ton of money, line breed it and see what comes out. A good shot of the back of the head might help me tell if it's chocolate or not.

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NO, I meant the part about the papers and what not.

The snake has nice flames. If I look really hard and squint, I guess I can sorta see a Black Pastel. :confused:But since its so questionable, why buy it?(As a BP at least.....)
There are plenty of obvious, higher quality black pastels around for a reasonable price.

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x2 what Satomi said. If you're looking for a Black Pastel and not some maybe dinker project, actually get a decent Black Pastel.

I remember who I bought every snake in my collection from. If he remembers enough that it came from a "big breeder" but doesn't remember who, then it doesn't pass my smell test. I'd classify that snake as a dinker, not a black pastel.

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I would call that a YB, just a darker one, like the SrK line. Flames, hooks, headspot, and belly pattern all suggest YB to me.

EDIT: but i still wouldn't buy it because the seller sounds sketchy, for the same reasons rabernet mentions^

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I would call that a YB, just a darker one, like the SrK line. Flames, hooks, headspot, and belly pattern all suggest YB to me.

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It isn't a yb at all, it looks a lot like my black pastel pos het hypo male though but lower quality.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/IMG_0411.jpg

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

It isn't a yb at all, it looks a lot like my black pastel pos het hypo male though but lower quality.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/IMG_0411.jpg

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Wow! That is quite resemblance. Until I saw that though I was thing Pastel YB.

Nope I disagree, I don't see black pastel. If it is, its one of the lowest quality ones I've seen. I see YB more than black pastel, jmo.

I have to agree with Mike.

Aside from the wrong belly, the top view of the OPs snake resembles a YB more than a BP, imo.

I'd look elsewhere for a BP that looks like a BP.


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Well hopefully we will have maybe a better idea from some better photos when the OP gets his hands on the animal on saturday, as he stated. I also do not see black pastel. My black pastel isnt the greatest of quality, and looks nothing like that.

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/...d/IMG_0369.jpg

Guess you will really have to wait and see what that paperwork from this breeder says, and what happens when you breed the animal to something else....

Dinker. Dinker, Dinker. IMO...and I just like saying that word. Dinker!

Hi guys thanks for taking the time to read the whole post :)

I think i forgot to say this
when i got offered this male a while ago and the seller told me it was a black pastel the i didnt believe it, i started reading and i saw some features of a BP but not all but i also started to look to some other morphs like cinny,YB,Special and it doesnt like any of these, but in that moment it was a bit expensive for something that didnt look quite as a black pastel (250 dollars) so a few days ago he puted for acution and once again i remembered that the snake didnt look anything like what ive seen before so i choosed to buy him, i never meant to have a male black pastel i actually have asked to a friend of mine to bing me a BHB female black pastel, so you could tell my interest in this male is as a dinker project, anyway i really cant tell what does exactly he is until i see him tomorrow morning in my hands so i can check out the eyes, the true color and the belly, even if hes a black pastel i think hes the weirdest looking black pastel and maybe he has something special going on inside but i will be just be capable of say that until tomorrow morning,

I dont get why some of you guys say "low quality black pastel" i really hope you can explain me guys :) i mean i dont see why low or high quality, do you see this in how black the snake is? how many donuts in the pattern it has''

Thanks alot!:D

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Originally Posted by SajaRawr

I dont get why some of you guys say "low quality black pastel" i really hope you can explain me guys :) i mean i dont see why low or high quality, do you see this in how black the snake is? how many donuts in the pattern it has''

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I think there is a chance the snake you are acquiring is a Black Pastel. The reason for "low quality" is the lack of black "squiggles" in the side pattern, the extensive "flames" up the sides, and its normal back pattern. Black Pastels do have "flames" up the sides, but usually not that extensive. The average internet expert can look at a picture of a high quality Black Pastel and congratulate the owner, however they will see a lower-quality Black Pastel and claim it is not a Black Pastel at all. Regarding the "donuts", I think you mentioned in an earlier post that your snake has lots of them but I see none. Look at the rings down the back of the Black Pastel below. These are the "donuts" I look for as an indicator that a snake could be a Black Pastel.

http://www.piedpeddler.com/data/stor...6bbf27f2d6.jpg

Enjoy your new snake and please share some of your own pictures once you get him.

Paul

Hi Paul!

Thanks for the explaining me how coud it be a high and low quality black pastel :D
by the way i didnt say it has lots of donuts i said this

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the pattern is weird, lots of blush and the typical donuts in the pattern....

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hehe i said lots of blush not "lots of donuts" hehe and i with blush i meant flames... my mistake hehe but its almost tomorrow and i will have the snake in my hands soon when i do ill post pictures of mine so we can decide what does exactly this male is :P

So today i finally got him and hes one of a kind, hes a little thin but he has some pretty dark black and some awsome brown he has some giggles on the donuts the flames on the sides are pretty high and it has a very clear white belly, the eyes are deep dark with a little bit of white/silver on the top of the eye and no its not the reflection of the light i already check that, he has also a little flame on the top of his head, here are the pictures


http://img541.imageshack.us/edit_pre...&action=rotate
http://img29.imageshack.us/edit_prev...&action=rotate
http://img7.imageshack.us/edit_previ...&action=rotate
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8672/2oyx.jpg

Now that there are new pics what do you think?

i say it has some black pastel features.

Guys, I think that is a Black Pastel. Maybe not what comes to mind when you hear someone say BP, but I'm going to say for sure it is one.

I've seen several snakes that looked pretty much like this one from some pretty well known breeders here in the US on Kingsnake and Fauna being sold as Black Pastels. So I think it's very possible this snake is one. Certainly I've seen one or two in person that looked much like this being sold as a black pastel when I was at Tinley Park.

Yes the coloring is off, but the faint shadows of "squiggles" in the markings certainly suggest BP. The flames are a bit extreme, but I've seen them before on rare occasions on black pastels that were similar. Now, if I were shopping for a black pastel, this certainly is not an animal I'd purchase as a black pastel, but that doesn't mean it isn't one. I am guessing the buyer is located outside of the US, and this might be the only black pastel he/she has access to. I know most of you will disagree, but I'm still going to call it a black pastel. Not a stellar example, but I think it is one anyway.

Gale

I really don't see anything about it that says black pastel to me. :oops:

It doesn't have the dark blacks, the high oranges or the floating patterns.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...kPastell03.jpg

I'd like to see where the pattern from the side meets the belly though.

It looks way more YB like than black pastel to me.

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Guys, I think that is a Black Pastel. Maybe not what comes to mind when you hear someone say BP, but I'm going to say for sure it is one.

I've seen several snakes that looked pretty much like this one from some pretty well known breeders here in the US on Kingsnake and Fauna being sold as Black Pastels. So I think it's very possible this snake is one. Certainly I've seen one or two in person that looked much like this being sold as a black pastel when I was at Tinley Park.

Yes the coloring is off, but the faint shadows of "squiggles" in the markings certainly suggest BP. The flames are a bit extreme, but I've seen them before on rare occasions on black pastels that were similar. Now, if I were shopping for a black pastel, this certainly is not an animal I'd purchase as a black pastel, but that doesn't mean it isn't one. I am guessing the buyer is located outside of the US, and this might be the only black pastel he/she has access to. I know most of you will disagree, but I'm still going to call it a black pastel. Not a stellar example, but I think it is one anyway.

Gale

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Thanks Gale i really think the same you do!:D

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I really don't see anything about it that says black pastel to me. :oops:

It doesn't have the dark blacks, the high oranges or the floating patterns.

I'd like to see where the pattern from the side meets the belly though.

It looks way more YB like than black pastel to me.

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I have to say buddy that the black on this snake is deep black i cant say anything about the flames cuz it washes out in a brown color but the black zones are pretty deep black, ill let you a picture of the belly here for you to see, by the way YB can have deep black eyes?

here are the pictures :D

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8672/2oyx.jpghttp://img18.imageshack.us/img18/379/ua4y.jpg

The belly is clear white just as a pied belly, really really white

The lack of dark donuts in the alien heads and a clear lack of ANY copper dorsal striping would rule this out as a Black Pastel to me.

Here's mine trying to get it on with my 0.1 Pied...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps7907a08d.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psaccf0c16.jpg

Hi guys i talked to the seller of the snake who bring it to my country and he said the snake came from a male black pastel x Wild capture female, he said he had in mind 2 names of the breeder who bought it from and that he would tell me exactly who this snake came from the next weekend when he comes back from holiday, he said he remember quite good the snake because he wanted to keep it but he needed the money, he even offered me 500 dollars for the snake i refused to sell it, he tried to convince me several times then he offered me 950 dollars for the snake and at that point i was sure i was not going to sell it so he whished me luck and asked me to call him if i change my mind about selling the snake

Then i showed my ball to a local regius breeder so he could tell me what does exactly he is, i first asked him if that was a yellow belly and he said that it wasnt a yellow belly because of the deep black eyes and the pure white belly he gave me several reasons for each morph like special spark and other similar ones and he said he wasnt sure about a black pastel but there were 2 options eighter its a black pastel or its the result of a wildcapture animal and it could be a pretty snake or something new but he couldnt say it for sure, which makes sence with the story of the first seller

So its still a mistery, what do you guys think?

Does it look anything like this in person?

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/mahogany/

Just a little bit, like in the head and flames but it doesnt match with the donuts, what do you have in mind dr del?