Possible solution to low humidity issues???

Being that I live in the desert, I'm always looking for a new way to combat this problem. Tonight someone mentioned an item typically found in a humidor and that made the little hamster wheel turn. Has anyone tried adding one of these, specifically at shed time or just an additional means to increase humidity? Perhaps the smallest one available, enclosed in something slim, made of plastic, and then hidden under the substrate? Seems as though it would be low maintenance, low cost and productive.

Humidifier

Behold!!!

http://www.images.scottphotographics...r-photos-1.jpg

Funny.... I live in the desert with Temps upwards of 110 degrees and humidity in the hi teens low twenties this time of year. and oddly enough, work for a living. While I appreciate the humor <tbh, I didn't> I'm quite actively trying to find a way to deal with an issue that many of us have.

Now, anyone else with a serious reply?

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

Funny.... I live in the desert with Temps upwards of 110 degrees and humidity in the hi teens low twenties this time of year. and oddly enough, work for a living. While I appreciate the humor <tbh, I didn't> I'm quite actively trying to find a way to deal with an issue that many of us have.

Now, anyone else with a serious reply?

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Not sure I'd mess with the little cigar humidor things. Just get a normal room humidifier. I have one for our bedroom that I use during the winter and it works out well.

Or you could just move...LOL!!!

Moving can't come soon enough... 2 years till full retirement, too much to lose to take it now.

I have a 'normal' room humidifier and while it worked a bit, she's in a large room and I worry about yet one more thing plugged in full time <which was required to hold the tank at just 40%. yes, I know.. plastic. I refuse to do a tub, call me prissy but a tub simply is not going in this room.> This solution just seems to at least give us the desired moisture without sacrificing a lot of heat if nothing else, at least when they shed.

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

Moving can't come soon enough... 2 years till full retirement, too much to lose to take it now.

I have a 'normal' room humidifier and while it worked a bit, she's in a large room and I worry about yet one more thing plugged in full time <which was required to hold the tank at just 40%. yes, I know.. plastic. I refuse to do a tub, call me prissy but a tub simply is not going in this room.> This solution just seems to at least give us the desired moisture without sacrificing a lot of heat if nothing else, at least when they shed.

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Congrats on your upcoming retirement. :gj: As far as the humidor things, I'm not so sure it would work. A humidor is sealed. A bp's tank is not. I'd also be concerned about the thing breaking and the snake getting into the gel stuff. Not sure if that's a valid concern or not, though. I guess I'd also be concerned about having to clean pee and poo out of that thing when they do their business...it's an interesting idea, I just don't know if it's practical.

A quick search on google wasn't very helpful. Only decent suggestion was houseplants. Apparently the more houseplants you have the higher the humidity will be. Not sure how much that would help being in the desert though.

The bad thing about humidifiers and foggers is bacteria and mold. I'm not sure of the specifics but warm + moist = problems. So if you are going to do a humidifier, a room one would be best, but make sure you clean it out at least once a week with bleach. Also because hard water and stuff like that can complicate those things.

A good way is a spray bottle if you thoroughly spray the tank it'll raise the humidity.

What kind of snake? I'm assuming BP since this is in the section, but you may have more species and what not. So for me to give this next piece of advice for raising your humidity is going to depend on what type of bedding you use, how much and what types of snakes?

Nagini is an adorable bouncing baby 86g bp. Bedding ='s reptibark + Eco earth, approx 1/2". Because of the ac being on so much this time of year<never turned off> a heat lamp is required to maintain ambient temps. I tried turning it off during the day and the temps plummeted to 76 on the hot side, I shudder to think what the cool side was. I have a humid hide, 2 water dishes and covered the lid with foil and tape. She just went into shed for the first time so now I'm spraying as often as possible to give her over 60%.

Would something like these work?


http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/bowls-drippers-misters-and-humidifiers/reptile-misters-drippers-and-humidifiers/-/exoterra-tropical-fogger/
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...isting-system/
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...sting-machine/
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...um-humidifier/

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

Nagini is an adorable bouncing baby 86g bp. Bedding ='s reptibark + Eco earth, approx 1/2". Because of the ac being on so much this time of year<never turned off> a heat lamp is required to maintain ambient temps. I tried turning it off during the day and the temps plummeted to 76 on the hot side, I shudder to think what the cool side was. I have a humid hide, 2 water dishes and covered the lid with foil and tape. She just went into shed for the first time so now I'm spraying as often as possible to give her over 60%.

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Ok what I'm about to tell you will work for BP's and this is what I used to do to keep my Anaconda's humidity 70%+ and that's with a overhead heat emitter. For this to work you need an UTH and you should NOT do this if your snake burrows or digs up any kind of layer. I'm only slightly familiar with reptibark and from what I know when I used to keep scorpions is that it doesn't hold humidity well, or at least it never did for me. Your Eco earth is fine, though I don't know how it'll affect what I'm going to tell you, when I did this I used the Forest Floor by Zoo Med which is cypress mulch. So you may or may not have to do away with the Eco Earth.

What you do is you want ideally about 3-4" of substrate for this to work well. You can use a straw or a PVC pipe about a dime size in diameter. You want two, one for each side, and you put them in the corner doesn't matter if the front side or rear side. But you need them to go to the bottom, but before you put them there you want to have an angled cut like "\" but more of an angle. Then what you do is you put it in the corner and then put the bedding around it(this is why I'm not sure if Eco Earth will work because it may just clog it, but then again it may work better than expected) and then you put enough substrate to cover up to the top of the PVC pipe and then from there you can just pour some water down the tube and the UTH will start to evaporate it and in turn it'll raise your humidity and it should raise it by 15% if not more, depending on how you set it up. I had an UTH on both sides so that way it evaporated quicker to raise the humidity even higher and in turn I poured a little more water. I think I kept her in a 65 gallon long and if I'm not mistaken I poured probably about 5-6 cups every 2-3 days depending on how it looked and I mean this in the strictest way possible that you want to check closely to make sure you're not getting any kind of mold or anything, which I never did but I always checked thoroughly, and every other week I rotated the substrate out so I could check on the very bottom and that way the substrate that stayed damp/wet had a chance to breathe. I also would move something over both PCV pipes so that way you're snake isn't tempted to stick it's head down there and because yours is so small you may want to do even smaller then that, something less than the width of it's mouth. Please just keep a close eye until you situate exactly how much water and the temps and everything, also the added UTH to the other side should help raise the ambient temps and if you still need to raise them more you can get the heat tape tape and put it along the sides of the substrate which will help raise your ambient temperature as well.

Now I'm sure some people will comment on this but I've done it and it worked fine.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Would something like these work?


http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/bowls-drippers-misters-and-humidifiers/reptile-misters-drippers-and-humidifiers/-/exoterra-tropical-fogger/
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...isting-system/
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...sting-machine/
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...um-humidifier/

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I can't speak for snakes but when I'd mist the enclosure for my Anaconda sometimes just to dampen the top of the substrate and spray her, she would move around a bit but seemed to not have an issue with it, on the other hand if I mist my Rufous Beaked Snake enclosure and the water hits them, they run for dear life. That may or may not stress her out, maybe somebody else could chime in on that.

I've looked into the misters/foggers and see very mixed reviews. That being said, it's on the list of things to try.

I'm quite interested in the under substrate idea. Adding a cap would prevent her from taking a journey I might not approve of. I do wonder... Perhaps if ran along the three sides on the side <one extra elbow or perhaps a 't' at one bend that could be capped and serve as a fill spot..but that is easy> of the enclosure with the uth and very small holes drilled into the top of it. Not sure it really needs to be covered completely. A small enough diameter pipe in black would not be very visible. Could also pack the cypress mulch along the sides to 'hide' it.

Gonna let the hamster wheel turn in this idea and perhaps make a trip to Home Depot in the morning if I can convince the hubby he needs yet another 'project'. He is already starting the designs for her 'forever tank' so will need to approach with caution ;).

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

I've looked into the misters/foggers and see very mixed reviews. That being said, it's on the list of things to try.

I'm quite interested in the under substrate idea. Adding a cap would prevent her from taking a journey I might not approve of. I do wonder... Perhaps if ran along the three sides on the side <one extra elbow or perhaps a 't' at one bend that could be capped and serve as a fill spot..but that is easy> of the enclosure with the uth and very small holes drilled into the top of it. Not sure it really needs to be covered completely. A small enough diameter pipe in black would not be very visible. Could also pack the cypress mulch along the sides to 'hide' it.

Gonna let the hamster wheel turn in this idea and perhaps make a trip to Home Depot in the morning if I can convince the hubby he needs yet another 'project'. He is already starting the designs for her 'forever tank' so will need to approach with caution ;).

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Yea, I've done it with no issues at all. The reason I say 3-4" of substrate is so that way the top stays dry unless you mist it. I at one point thought I had a write up on it but I don't know where it went or if I even had posted it on this site or not. I hope this works out as well for you as it did for me. Just make sure you don't keep the top of the substrate wet all the time, it's okay to dampen it sometimes, because it can cause scale rot.

Missy,

I live in 29 Palms and the humidity here absolutely sucks. I use large water bowls, and spray in everyone's tubs in the evenings. Been doing this for years now and it works just fine. I also keep small water bowls around in the snake room, and fill them up when they get low. Humidity stays ~ok in the room, but with the large water bowls and a good spray in the evenings, it works out.

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Originally Posted by Coopers Constrictors

Missy,

I live in 29 Palms and the humidity here absolutely sucks. I use large water bowls, and spray in everyone's tubs in the evenings. Been doing this for years now and it works just fine. I also keep small water bowls around in the snake room, and fill them up when they get low. Humidity stays ~ok in the room, but with the large water bowls and a good spray in the evenings, it works out.

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OP's reply in post #5 >> "I refuse to do a tub, call me prissy but a tub simply is not going in this room."

Plus she's using over head heating right now.

What are the temps in the room? I live in Vegas and my 3 larger snakes are in 55, 40, and 29gal tanks. My baby Dumeril's is in a tub. I keep the room at 78-79 degrees around the clock and only use a UTH on all of my tanks and the tub. Humidity in the room is normally around 20%. Cool side stays at room temp or slightly higher and hot spot is 90 degrees. My screen tops are covered with black plastic garbage bag material taped around all the edges with only a very small opening over the hot side for ventilation. I use cypress for bedding, provide a large water bowl, and mist it a few times a week. Humidity stays between 50-70% at all times.
If you just maintain your room temp at around 78 degrees you'll be just fine. Overhead heating with an open screen top is the devil here in the desert....just like the sun and that damn blast furnace wind we get here. Ditch the overhead lamp, seal up the top, and use a UTH on a thermostat.

The under the substrate I how I used to deal with humidity issues my solution is very similar less refined. I placed a plant saucer under the cool side and filled it with water then eco earth on top covering the saucer, I banked the substrate using a large water bowl to help hold it in place so the cool side had 3-5 inches (5 at the side dropping to 3 or so) the hot side normal. The water mass evaporates holding a steady RH. When the lower level looks dry I just poked a finger through the substrate to the saucer (the type that goes under plants http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/111...ant_Saucer.jpg) and poured room temp water in to fill it up. that would hold for a few days.

Misters only raise the RH for a few hours if there is good ventilation so it is not a practical solution. It doesn't last at all.

The sticky bit. Relative Humidity is relative to temperature. Ball pythons need 60% @ 80ºF ambient to shed this is 15.5 gm/m3 of water in the air. This is absolute figure.

RH is the % the amount of water the air has relative to the max amount of water the air can hold. Warm air holds more water. If you live up north the air at 90%RH and 0% rh is so close to the same as to make no difference.


75ºF BPs need RH of 72% to shed properly. (15.5 gm/m3 same amount of water as 80ºF @ 60%)
77ºF BPs need RH of 68% to shed properly. (15.5 gm/m3 same amount of water as 80ºF @ 60%)
80ºF they need 60%
82ºF BPs need RH of 57% to shed properly. (15.5 gm/m3 same amount of water as 80ºF @ 60%)
84ºF BPs need RH of 53% to shed properly. (15.5 gm/m3 same amount of water as 80ºF @ 60%)
88ºF BPs need RH of 47% to shed properly. (15.5 gm/m3 same amount of water as 80ºF @ 60%)

Often people in warmer areas fret about getting 60% but it is not always so concerning. Most of my enclosures are kept at 83ºF ambient and I run 50% RH all the time and just bump it up to 55% for sheds no problems ever.

I bought a cheap personal (small) humidifier at walgreens for $20. Attached a tube and fed it into my snakes cage. Run it off a timer, use distilled water, never had a problem with mold or any badness. Keeps humidity spot on. Just adjust the timer to come on more/less longer/shorter duration at different times of the year and while in shed.

If you're using a tank, cover about 70% of the screen top with tin foil. Use a wider water bowl that is partially if not completely over the UTH (you will have to refill more often), and make sure that area is covered by the foil up top. Put the heat lamp at the opposite end of the tank as the water bowl. This helped me raise my humidity by 25% without any misting whatsoever. If you mist at night before bed it should bump you up enough

First experiment is gonna be the water/ ecoearth in a terra cotta dish. Soaked the dish for a few hours and now have it filled with water and substrate, covered in plastic so it soaks in. Then will somewhat bury it after uncovering it in a few hours. Luckily, we have a storm coming thru <won't rain but we are getting a natural bump in humidity.> of course it's unusual so now the temps are fluctuating.

Blm.... My cover is treated with foil and tape.

Kite...* Fingers crossed* And the room she lives in tends to sit at 73ish. I can't do the misting thing 4 times a day every day, I'll be tickled pink if I can find something that requires 2 days a week ish upkeep.

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

First experiment is gonna be the water/ ecoearth in a terra cotta dish. Soaked the dish for a few hours and now have it filled with water and substrate, covered in plastic so it soaks in. Then will somewhat bury it after uncovering it in a few hours. Luckily, we have a storm coming thru <won't rain but we are getting a natural bump in humidity.> of course it's unusual so now the temps are fluctuating.

Blm.... My cover is treated with foil and tape.

Kite...* Fingers crossed* And the room she lives in tends to sit at 73ish. I can't do the misting thing 4 times a day every day, I'll be tickled pink if I can find something that requires 2 days a week ish upkeep.

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Just do what I recommended, but I'm not sure if the Eco Earth will help or not, I've never done it with it, and I used that Zoo Med Cypress Mulch thing because it retains water good.

Eco earth holds far more water than cyprus so much so that when wet you can squeeze water out. I personally don't like using cyprus as it is not well managed and the future it will be endangered (currently it is threatened in many places) Eco earth (coco coir) is a by product and 100% renewable. It is a sound environmental option.

The terracotta can work just fine but if you switch to plastic it will also work well and doesn't leak water to over the UTH and is easier to clean.

I am not a fan of reducing the ventilation it is linked to health issues. that method is basically 'sick building syndrome' I would avoid reducing air flow in a tank that has not super great air flow to begin with. (think grocery store open top freezers if they vented well with clients moving past all the time it would thaw. They don't because cold air settles and there is very poor air flow) I live where summer RH and winter RH is drastically different, summer is in the 40% winter is in the 10% I never had a problem.

Humidifiers work well although the monumental amount of cleaning the ultrasonic ones need (daily) to remain at low bacteria levels it not worth it. They also tend to drop the ambient air temps drastically when the kick on (summer mine was on 100% of the time) I'd avoid them and only use the evaporation ones they however cannot be directed straight in as they run too hot.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Eco earth holds far more water than cyprus so much so that when wet you can squeeze water out. I personally don't like using cyprus as it is not well managed and the future it will be endangered (currently it is threatened in many places) Eco earth (coco coir) is a by product and 100% renewable. It is a sound environmental option.

The terracotta can work just fine but if you switch to plastic it will also work well and doesn't leak water to over the UTH and is easier to clean.

I am not a fan of reducing the ventilation it is linked to health issues. that method is basically 'sick building syndrome' I would avoid reducing air flow in a tank that has not super great air flow to begin with. (think grocery store open top freezers if they vented well with clients moving past all the time it would thaw. They don't because cold air settles and there is very poor air flow) I live where summer RH and winter RH is drastically different, summer is in the 40% winter is in the 10% I never had a problem.

Humidifiers work well although the monumental amount of cleaning the ultrasonic ones need (daily) to remain at low bacteria levels it not worth it. They also tend to drop the ambient air temps drastically when the kick on (summer mine was on 100% of the time) I'd avoid them and only use the evaporation ones they however cannot be directed straight in as they run too hot.

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CoCo Husk holds humidity as well. The only reason I said I'm not sure about Eco Earth is it may clog up the bottom, but then again maybe not. I just never tried it with it. I've used Eco Earth for scorpions but never with the way I did the Anaconda tank.

It's definitely a challenge. Thank goodness I'm up for it. Storms moving thru right now which dropped our temps 20 degrees and jacked up the humidity. not helping my experiments at all!!!

Currently heartbroken though, went tonight to pick up a nice fat snack for my girl and discovered my fave mom and pop shop is closing in less than a week. <And was already closed so she goes one more day> This presents a feeding issue that I was unprepared for. Nagini wouldn't even look at the darn f/t mouse so the hunt begins for a reputable source. I'll be doing some clearance sale shopping though *grin*.

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

It's definitely a challenge. Thank goodness I'm up for it. Storms moving thru right now which dropped our temps 20 degrees and jacked up the humidity. not helping my experiments at all!!!

Currently heartbroken though, went tonight to pick up a nice fat snack for my girl and discovered my fave mom and pop shop is closing in less than a week. <And was already closed so she goes one more day> This presents a feeding issue that I was unprepared for. Nagini wouldn't even look at the darn f/t mouse so the hunt begins for a reputable source. I'll be doing some clearance sale shopping though *grin*.

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One option if you can't do F/T is to look on craigslist for people who breed mice. I've found people on there willing to, err what's that word called.. Oh yea, they were looking to foster snakes, so basically give me stuff to feed to my snakes. I didn't do it because I prefer to keep them on F/T but if I needed to do it then I could.

No local feeder mice or rat breeders. Did find a relatively new and unknown pet shop that it taking over what the closing store had as far as feeders. Seem to be nice ppl and really big on reptiles. I picked up a few spare mice and have them set up in a tank for the next few weeks feedings while I 'investigate'. If I don't like what I find I'm just gonna breed myself and start a nice side biz.

My poor Nagini. She apparently hid out during her cloudy eye stage and went into shedding unknown to me <While I'm constantly messing with her tank, I leave her alone.> and took down a big fat mouse on Tuesday. Messy shed, fat and digesting and our local temps are 115. I've managed to stabilize the ambient temp at 83 but it's not going any lower and no true cool side. Humidity is really good so not sure why it's such a messy shed. She got her head done but not coming off well on her body.

ECO earth, coco coir, coco husk is all the same thing FYI.