Blue eye Lucy and black eye Lucy

What would happen if you bread a blue eye Lucy male (butter x majave) with a black eye Lucy female (super fire)?

everything would have fire in it and with the bel (Mojave x butter) that snake will produce mojaves or butters no normal. so would would get fire mojaves and fire butters

You will get Fire Mojos and Fire Butters.

Would any of them be Lucy though?

No, Fire Mojaves and Fire Lessers are not white snakes.

Forgive me for trying to hijack the thread, but I was just wondering what pairings make the legit pure white BEL?
I know the mojave & lesser to another snake of the same morph works, but I've heard that with the mojaves, some babies tend to get a bit of a grey head?

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Originally Posted by timely.grace

Forgive me for trying to hijack the thread, but I was just wondering what pairings make the legit pure white BEL?
I know the mojave & lesser to another snake of the same morph works, but I've heard that with the mojaves, some babies tend to get a bit of a grey head?

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Inexperienced, far from expert speaking here.

But from my understanding, you can pair two mojaves and you may possibly get BELs, but are more likely to get ivories. (Or just ivories?)

You can also pair lesser X lesser or butter X butter, but from what I've read, these are very likely to be bug eyed. If they're not born bug eyed, they can grow to be bug eyed.

Lesser X Butter
Mojave X Butter
Mojave X Lesser

I could be (more than likely am) wrong, so PLEASE feel free to correct me! Though I don't need to tell you guys that. ;)

what exactly is bug eyed? is it a serious deformation that shortens lifespan or more of an esthetic issue?

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Originally Posted by timely.grace

what exactly is bug eyed? is it a serious deformation that shortens lifespan or more of an esthetic issue?

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Bug eyes are when the eyes stick out much farther than they should. I'm sure there's a more correct, technical definition, but that's what they look like.

It's more aesthetic, but very undesirable. Personally, I think it looks disgusting and I wouldn't buy one. I don't think they should be bred, and if breeders know that certain combos (butter X butter, for example) can cause such issues, I don't think such morphs should be paired.
If you wanted a BEL, would you want one because it's pretty (i.e., has normal eyes), or just to say you have a BEL? Personally, I would want one that looked normal (as far as the eyes go). Quality....

Here's a super butter. (Pic is from Google)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps1523aecd.jpg

Oh, I see what you mean!
Definitely going for quality over the name. I have what I believe to be a male mojave and a male lesser, but I'm not 100% certain. The Lesser could possibly be a female. My sexing technique is still in the works. I'll be transporting them in the next couple days to visit my breeder who will properly do it and teach me her ways haha. Lesser x mojo would work, yeah? bits of grey head, though, right?

My breeding endeavours are still at least 1-2 years away, I'm just wanting to figure out my goal pairings & purchase the morphs I need to purchase now haha.

As far as the gray on the head question goes - I have no idea. I've looked that up, and it kinda seems like a roll of the dice kinda thing. You might get solid whites, you might get some with gray on the head.

Keep in mind, you won't get all BELs. I think there's only a 25% chance of that. The others can be lessers, mojaves, and normals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Konotashi

Inexperienced, far from expert speaking here.

But from my understanding, you can pair two mojaves and you may possibly get BELs, but are more likely to get ivories. (Or just ivories?)

You can also pair lesser X lesser or butter X butter, but from what I've read, these are very likely to be bug eyed. If they're not born bug eyed, they can grow to be bug eyed.

Lesser X Butter
Mojave X Butter
Mojave X Lesser

I could be (more than likely am) wrong, so PLEASE feel free to correct me! Though I don't need to tell you guys that. ;)

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ivories are super yellow bellies. they don't have anything to do with the BEL complex. if you breed 2 mojaves, you'll get (statistically for each egg) 25% normals, 50% mojaves, and 25% BELs. the super mojaves (BEL) tend to have a gray head and aren't "pure" white.

lesser, butter, mojave, het russo, and mocha are all part of the BEL complex and any of them bred to each other can produce blue eyed lucys.

also, phantoms and mystics can be bred to lessers, butters, het russos, or mochas and produce BELs, but when bred to other phantoms or mystics (phantom x phantom/ mystic x mystic) they produce something totally different.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/super-phantom/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/super-mystic/

when any of those two morphs that i said will produce a BEL are bred together, you get a 25% chance in each egg of a white snake popping out (the snake has both genes from parents).

keep in mind it is widely accepted lesser and butter are the same morph, just from different origins. i wouldn't say lesser x lesser or butter x butter BELs are VERY likely to be bug eyed, but it does happen, so a lot of people will cross butter/lesser to a mojave to get the pure white snake without the gray head or bug eyes. het russo x het russo though will produce a pure white snake without (or at least not as prevalent as the butter/lesser x butter/lesser) bug eyes. if you do get a lesser/butter x lesser/butter hatchling with perfect eyes i don't believe (or at least haven't heard of) them developing bug eyes as they get older, but i have heard that some hatchlings born with the bug eyes tend to grow into them as they get bigger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timely.grace

what exactly is bug eyed? is it a serious deformation that shortens lifespan or more of an esthetic issue?

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their eyes stick out from their heads further than normal. it doesn't shorten their life span and they live normal lives. it is purely aesthetic.

If you want c∕̴Ɩ clean Lucy, mohave to butter/lesser is c∕̴Ɩ good choice since butter/lesser tend to clean stuff up.S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴͡ I'd say you already have what you need to make c∕̴Ɩ solid white Lucy. Super mojos have grey heads.

If you want the cleanest white snake out there then skip the BluEL group and look at the BlkEL group instead, preferably something like the ProExotic LemonBack line. As BluELs grow they all dirty up to some extent, developing a faint pattern and yellow tinge. The all-white BlkELs do not exhibit this tendency.

Another possibility is to go for something like a Lesser Pied. These tend to be Pied-white, which is much more stark white than BluEL white