First eggs of 2013!

We had our first clutch of the year on Sunday! Lulu (Normal) X Maxi (het albino het pied) gave us 5 big beautiful eggs mid-Sunday morning. We are also expecting eggs from Sara (Normal) X Loki (YB) this coming Monday.

We also just got a prelay shed from Taki (het pied) X Maxi and hope to have eggs from then about July 17th and Ivy (Pinstripe) X Voldo (Honeybee) is deep in blue so possibly July 20-24th? Silly snakes are all bunching up apparently?!? Sadly looks like Mariah (Pastel) is going to pass, she was (we think) building but reabsorbed earlier this year.

Beyond that we maternally incubate if the moms are willing and Lulu is doing great! We offered her a rat crawler late Sunday and she took it without hesitation and was back on the eggs immediately. Last year we had 2 clutches and both Taki and Sara maternally incubated however only Sara ate while on the eggs, so it's nice to see another first time mom eating so soon!

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...psaec322cd.jpg

Very cool and good luck on the maternal incubation! It's always neat to see different methods for doing things.

Go Loki Go :D

i have my first clutch from an albino female bred to my pied het/4 albino male.....she is wrapped all around them but has them on the floor of the tub just like your girl does.....is it ok to leave them like that? also can you share some of your experience as to why you incubate maternally and pros/cons and what to look out for? Im sorry to be such a noob but i sure dont want to lose these eggs.....thanks in advance.

Iv personally always preferred artificial incubation because you can keep your desired temperature and humidity fairly easy. Also your female will continue to refuse food until they hatch. Seeing how most females dont eat during the breeding season and non do after ovulation, and i like my girls eating as soon as possible after the clutch is dropped.

With that said iv never even tried to maternally incubate any python eggs, how ever i do have a friend who prefers to maternally incubate but only with 2500g-3000g+ females that continue to feed during the breeding season. However i think her main reason is because she thinks its more natural birthing process for the animals.

Sorry 2500-3000gs going into the breeding season. (not after droping the clutch)

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Originally Posted by BillyChainsaw

i have my first clutch from an albino female bred to my pied het/4 albino male.....she is wrapped all around them but has them on the floor of the tub just like your girl does.....is it ok to leave them like that? also can you share some of your experience as to why you incubate maternally and pros/cons and what to look out for? Im sorry to be such a noob but i sure dont want to lose these eggs.....thanks in advance.

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This is only my third clutch but I had great success last year with maternal incubation. So far in every case the girls have moved the bedding aside and layed on the tub, I use the cypress more to hold in extra humidity. We had 100% hatch rate last year of all 12 eggs. I tend to trust that them moms will know better how to care for the eggs and being raised with chickens I have seen to many incubator glitches. I have read Quiet Tempest's post on maternal incubation dozens of times. As long as the cage is right for mom and she is willing to wrap you should be good, however do what you think is best. I offer smaller food every week same as normal and both my first time girls ate. Sara took 2 weeks to get settled but ate every week after that and had gained back almost all her weight by the time the eggs hatched! My girl that I bought and had her eggs incubated for her her first 2 clutches was perfectly willing to maternally incubate but did not eat till after they hatched. Sorry for the book, hope I answered your questions. I will try to get a good picture of her eating if she will this Sunday.

@SnakeRkewl lol, we love him, he is a great boy and we where very happy with his clutch last year. Hmm, maybe pastel ybs next year?

We let our females maternally incubate last season, and it went well so they are maternally incubating again this year. I'd say pretty much all of them push the bedding out of the way and let the eggs sit on the tub floor but it doesn't seem to cause problems.

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Originally Posted by DJF1990

Also your female will continue to refuse food until they hatch. Seeing how most females dont eat during the breeding season and non do after ovulation, and i like my girls eating as soon as possible after the clutch is dropped.

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This isn't entirely true. Our experience has been that most of our females eat while on eggs. And FWIW, every one of our females that maternally incubated last season gained all of her weight back and then some before the start of this season. Also, as an interesting side note, we have a handful of girls who trick us by consistently eating while they are gravid (ie after ovulation).

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Originally Posted by DJF1990

Also your female will continue to refuse food until they hatch.

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That has been proven wrong right here on this forum...there are several really good threads on maternal incubation here.

Here is Sara eating last year.
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...l/IMG_2233.jpg

And here is Lulu eating this year. Darn girls eat fast, have to be on the ball to get a picture before it disappears!
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...pse0555a87.jpg

So exciting! I'm seriously thinking about maternal incubation...

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Originally Posted by Anya

So exciting! I'm seriously thinking about maternal incubation...

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Me too. I think I'm gonna try it next year just to experience it...

Thanks, I love it! Few things are better then opening a tub to this!
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...ps682f95aa.jpg
One of my favorite photos from last year. Sara and Shyanne : )

When you offer food while they are coiled around them do they ever leave the eggs? Have you ever had an egg roll out or maybe be damaged by the female constricting the rodent? I only ask cuz i wanna maternal incubation next season with atleast one of my girls.

Also you have had luck feeding after ovulation? How small of a meal do you offer? I always offer smaller rodents than my snakes are use to during the breeding season how ever iv never had a female eat after ovulation.

The girls usually partially uncoil to strike and eat but stay mostly on the eggs the entire time. So far they have never damaged an egg. Last year my het pied clutch had 1 egg that was not stuck to the other and it would occasionally get away from her but she always pulled it back in with the rest. It hatched just fine.

Between ovulation and laying my girls have not eaten yet, and generally the won't eat for the weeks leading up to ovulation either. However they still have gotten back up to weight before the next season. The first meal I offer is extra small, like a rat pup, to restart their system and if they have no problem with that then I tend to offer up to a small weaner rat. I am always right next to the tub, I do not want the mom or eggs hurt. However so far the moms are pretty fast and efficient.

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Originally Posted by DJF1990

When you offer food while they are coiled around them do they ever leave the eggs? Have you ever had an egg roll out or maybe be damaged by the female constricting the rodent? I only ask cuz i wanna maternal incubation next season with atleast one of my girls.

Also you have had luck feeding after ovulation? How small of a meal do you offer? I always offer smaller rodents than my snakes are use to during the breeding season how ever iv never had a female eat after ovulation.

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Our females maternally incubated 28 clutches last yr, and we are expecting at least 34 clutches this year.

Some of mine leave the eggs to eat and some stay partially coiled on the eggs when they eat. I have not had any issues with the eggs being disturbed or damaged by feeding. I just use rat pups, since I don't think a rat pup could damage the eggs, but maybe a bigger rat could (I feed live).

As far as getting females to eat after ovulation, I don't know that there is much you can do to encourage them...they either eat or they don't. We started offering after ovulation because I had one female that we didn't see ovulation with, and she ate up until the week she laid eggs (this was back in our first breeding season, about 6yrs ago). We didn't even think she was gravid until we found her on eggs. So now we offer small meals even after ovulation, and about 10-15% of our females take them.

Do you use egg chambers when maternally incubating the eggs for security for your females and to help increase the humidity and maintain temp? My big girls (2500+) seem to prefer no egg chamber no hide, just substrate and the water bowl. How ever my smaller females ( 1500-2000g) really seem to appreciate the added security of the egg chamber.

We don't use hides or egg chambers, but our racks are pretty enclosed. A few girls actually laid at the front of their tubs this year. For substrate, we use cypress mulch throughout the tubs, and then sphagnum moss around mom and eggs.

Have any of your females ever laid the clutch directly on the heat source its self? If so how would you go about relocating the female and clutch away from the heat source if you wanted to continue maternally incubation? Also have you ever noticed an increase in deformities or Premature births maternally incubating compared to artificial? Thanx for all the info as well everyone great thread!

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Originally Posted by DJF1990

Have any of your females ever laid the clutch directly on the heat source its self? If so how would you go about relocating the female and clutch away from the heat source if you wanted to continue maternally incubation? Also have you ever noticed an increase in deformities or Premature births maternally incubating compared to artificial? Thanx for all the info as well everyone great thread!

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We heat our room to 85F and do not provide supplemental heat in the racks, so we don't have a heat source to worry about. But, I have had to move a female during incubation because I had aspen for substrate and it started to mold. We took mom and eggs out, changed bedding and put them back. She went back on the eggs just fine.

We have not had any problems with deformities or premature births. With the 85F temp, we do see longer hatching times...typically 60-79 days. But, our average hatchling weight has been higher. Last year they ranged from 70g to 98g, with most between 80g and 90g.

One important note: do not cut the eggs if you are maternally incubating. If you must cut, move them to the incubator. If you cut and leave the eggs with mom, the pressure from her coiling will squeeze the liquid out. Once they pip on their own, it doesn't matter, and the female usually loosens up at that point anyway. But if you were to cut early and leave them with the female you could lose the babies.

Congrats and good luck Shari!

Regards,

B

We don't use egg chambers, just the tub in the rack, a large water dish and cypress bedding. We have heat tape along the bottom of every shelf in the rack and so far all 3 girls have layed their eggs on the tub directly over the heat tape. I don't move them except to weigh and candle them and I always try to put them back right where mom had them.

Thanks Brian!

Both clutches last year where all healthy babies that weighted from 65-77g and both piped right about day 58 through 60 for us.

So. June 25th Ivy had her pre-lay shed so we finally have some kind of timeline for all this years clutches.

And then we waited on Sara. Finally 36 days pre-lay we have eggs! Sara (Normal)X Loki (Yellowbelly). Looks like 6 nice big eggs July 3rd! Man she is crabby!

Next one up is Taki due around July 17th. And Lulu's eggs will be half way done on the 15th, silly snakes!
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...psd79aef2c.jpg

Congrats!

Update; Lulu's eggs are well over the half way mark, we are expecting them to hatch about August 14th! Sadly one of the eggs went bad so we are down to 4 eggs from her but the rest are looking great and are getting so close!

Sara's 6 eggs all still look good and are quickly closing in on their halfway mark. Mama ate after the first week and is crabby and hungry, we are super glad she is eating for us again and has taken her second meal.

Ivy layed 6 beautiful eggs for us July 25th, right on schedule! We will attempt to remove her, weigh her and the eggs, check her health and feed her tomorrow or Sunday.

Taki was slow developing her follicles this year, we thought she was ahead of Ivy but as we kept checking them Ivy pulled ahead. She shed again the 12th of July and her follicles are much bigger so we are guessing that was her prelay, considering she got much lighter as well we might be right this time. So we hope to get eggs from her on August 14th, same day Lulu's eggs should hatch!

So, we have 3 clutches incubating with a total so far of 16 good eggs and we are still waiting on one more clutch. I'll update again when we have eggs hatching or more eggs layed, whichever comes first!

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...psf45536f4.jpg

Woohoo! Congrats on all of them!

Day 51 on Lulu's clutch. Just checked them and figured I would share :D

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b19b880.jpg

Congradulations! It's always exciting when the females lay, the most fun part is the anticipation!

Personally, I don't think I can do the maternal incubation. Too many things can go wrong and in most cases it seems that more eggs are lost per clutch on average.

2 are out and still waiting on the last 2.

So for our first clutch of 2013 we have 4 nice health babies all 50% possible het pied, 50% possible het albino. It looks like we got 2.2 and we plan on holding back 1 female. They have all shed and all 4 took their first meal last night! My niece has named our girl Princess.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...ps07812915.jpg

Now we are waiting on our second clutch, 4 good eggs, hoping to get a few yellowbellies. Lulu spoiled us, today is day 51 and no pippers yet.

Second clutch is out. From Sara (normal) to Loki (yellow belly), of 6 eggs 2 went bad. The other four pipped on day 53. 3.1 yellowbellies! Not a normal in the clutch!