Is there such thing as overfeeding your ball pythons?

So I used to feed my bp on a 7 day schedule and one small rat each time. Lately because I have setup a little breeding colony (still waiting on babies, but thats another story) I have room to make house alot of rats for feeding purposes. I have switch to feeding whenever I see my snakes hungry. One of my girl just hit the 1100g mark few days ago (12 baby) and she is an absolute beast when it comes to feeding. For the last 2 feeding session, she was no content with just one rat. She would gobble down the first rat and immediately be looking for another rat. When I toss the next rat in she would get the rat almost instantly. After two rats she looks absolutely stuffed and at that point would calm down and stop looking for food.

Now I have been getting some grief from another ball python forum I frequent, the people tell me that I should not be feeding my girl so many rats even though she seems hungry. The rats I'm feeding her are approximate 100g each so with 2 rats thats over the recommend prey to snake size ratios. I've been told that feeding her like that will actually make her go off feed because she feels that she is too fat and that she could be off feeding for months if that does happen. I've also been told that stuffing her like that will also cause her to regurgitate her food. I have experience none of the above so far, but I have to admit she does look.......fat lol. I feel like snakes are intelligent enough to refuse food when they cannot take anymore but what do i know i've only been keeping snakes for a few months....

so is it better to stick to a feeding schedule and only feed 1 rat each time or should I stick with what I'm doing right now?

Wow 1100g for a 2012 baby! Holy my largest 2012 is 350g.
I know there can be health issues with obese animals, and also health issues when they are grown up extremely quickly.
The boaphile did an experiment with powerfeeding and none of the boas lived past 3 years, but I know balls are a lot more "round" then boas so I don't think the exact same thing applies, but you get the idea.
I would personally feed one a week. My 1400g female is eating mediums once a week

i always thought powerfeeding as forcing down a second rat into the snake just as he/she is about to finish the first rat? Or is what I'm doing consider powerfeeding too?

When in 2012 was she born?
My hypo is just about 1 year old and approaching 900g. My lesser that i got at the exact same time is 500ish grams. My hypo just eats more.

Imo, you're not over feeding. Im sure some will disagree though. My opinion is: if they're hungry they'll eat, and if they aren't hungry, we all know darn well they won't eat lol.

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Originally Posted by threezero

i always thought powerfeeding as forcing down a second rat into the snake just as he/she is about to finish the first rat? Or is what I'm doing consider powerfeeding too?

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Correct, that's powerfeeding. Force feeding the snake a second rat as they finish the first.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

When in 2012 was she born?
My hypo is just about 1 year old and approaching 900g. My lesser that i got at the exact same time is 500ish grams. My hypo just eats more.

Imo, you're not over feeding. Im sure some will disagree though. My opinion is: if they're hungry they'll eat, and if they aren't hungry, we all know darn well they won't eat lol.

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I don't remember exactly but I believe she's an august baby. I also have another ball python born around the same time and she is just a little over 900g. I also have a carpet python that is 1 or 2 month younger than the balls that is not even 200g..... I figure if she is hungry she will eat it, I never force any of my snakes to eat if they don't want to and my 1100g girl just seems to be a monster.....

You absolutely can over feed a snake.

Stick to a regular feeding size and schedule. It is not worth your collection health just to be able to breed sooner. I personally would not buy a hatching from a breeder with obese and under age snakes. You could really hurt your reputation with these practices.

Just like a horse, dog, or person can over eat so can a snake. Some are just pigs. Both my gtp and ball act like they want second rats but they only get what is right for them.

I wont exactly say "yes" to that with certainty....for a ball python. But, yes many colubrids and other snakes can turn into lil fatties if you let them. As of now, i personally have NEVER seen proof of an obese ball python.
I personally feed my bps as much as they want to eat. Ive rather have them be pigs than go for months and months without eating.

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Originally Posted by KMG

You absolutely can over feed a snake.

Stick to a regular feeding size and schedule. It is not worth your collection health just to be able to breed sooner. I personally would not buy a hatching from a breeder with obese and under age snakes. You could really hurt your reputation with these practices.

Just like a horse, dog, or person can over eat so can a snake. Some are just pigs. Both my gtp and ball act like they want second rats but they only get what is right for them.

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Comparing snakes to horses, dogs and people, is like comparing lollipops to bath tubs. If you wanna take that stance, then i'll counter with: well people have different metabolisms, why can't snakes? Same goes for dogs. Not every GSD/retriever/apbt grows EXACTLY the same. My hypo is almost twice the size of my lesser even tho i got them at the same time. Shes not fat by any means and my lesser isn't skinny by any means. We're talking about only bp's here, other species are different.

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Originally Posted by threezero

i always thought powerfeeding as forcing down a second rat into the snake just as he/she is about to finish the first rat? Or is what I'm doing consider powerfeeding too?

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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were powerfeeding. I was just trying to use that as an example of a possible detrimental effect of over eating.

If overfeeding hurts them then wouldn't the opposite hurt them too, (not eating)? They seem fine after fasting for months on end lol.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Comparing snakes to horses, dogs and people, is like comparing lollipops to bath tubs. If you wanna take that stance, then i'll counter with: well people have different metabolisms, why can't snakes? Same goes for dogs. Not every GSD/retriever/apbt grows EXACTLY the same. My hypo is almost twice the size of my lesser even tho i got them at the same time. Shes not fat by any means and my lesser isn't skinny by any means. We're talking about only bp's here, other species are different.

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You misunderstand.

I'm not saying that all snakes should eat the same I'm saying stick to the proper size for that snake. Sure a larger faster growing snake will need a larger meal than its smaller sibling but it does not require a double meal.

I bring up the horses, dogs, and people because they can all suffer ill effects from over eating. A horse can founder, a dog can bloat. While the ball isn't going to have those issues it could regurg and over time become obese and have liver issues among other things.

I stand by a snake can be overfed.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If overfeeding hurts them then wouldn't the opposite hurt them too, (not eating)? They seem fine after fasting for months on end lol.

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Giving either situation enough time they both can cause death.

I don't see the issue in feeding her two if shell take them.

It'd be different if you're shoving them down her throat.

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Originally Posted by KMG

You misunderstand.

I'm not saying that all snakes should eat the same I'm saying stick to the proper size for that snake. Sure a larger faster growing snake will need a larger meal than its smaller sibling but it does not require a double meal.

I bring up the horses, dogs, and people because they can all suffer ill effects from over eating. A horse can founder, a dog can bloat. While the ball isn't going to have those issues it could regurg and over time become obese and have liver issues among other things.

I stand by a snake can be overfed.

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Any examples of a ball regurging because of overfeeding?

You keep saying "snake". I agree, you can over feed snakes. I do not believe its possible (in 99% of cases) to over feed a ball python.

Do you have any examples of breeding size ball pythons starving themselves to death? Or any examples of a snake eating itself to death?

You give an example of feeding only once a week as an appropriate schedule. When it comes to balls, schedules are only for the keepers, imo.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Any examples of a ball regurging because of overfeeding?

You keep saying "snake". I agree, you can over feed snakes. I do not believe its possible (in 99% of cases) to over feed a ball python.

Do you have any examples of breeding size ball pythons starving themselves to death? Or any examples of a snake eating itself to death?

You give an example of feeding only once a week as an appropriate schedule. When it comes to balls, schedules are only for the keepers, imo.

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Why you think you can over feed a snake but not a ball is confusing.

I do not have any examples. It is fact that if a living creature does not eat it will eventually die. Then on the flip side overeating which leads to obesity and other health issues will cause a earlier death than a healthy specimen of the same age. The time this may take could be a long time but the cause of death is still food related.

I'm not saying is common or a growing problem. I'm just saying it is possible.

Trying to get a mature ball alittle heavy for breeding is very different than trying to get a immature ball big enough to breed before they should.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Why you think you can over feed a snake but not a ball is confusing.

I do not have any examples. It is fact that if a living creature does not eat it will eventually die. Then on the flip side overeating which leads to obesity and other health issues will cause a earlier death than a healthy specimen of the same age. The time this may take could be a long time but the cause of death is still food related.

I'm not saying is common or a growing problem. I'm just saying it is possible.

Trying to get a mature ball alittle heavy for breeding is very different than trying to get a immature ball big enough to breed before they should.

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They all have different metabolisms. You mentioned a gtp before. Most people only feed them like every 3 weeks, right? Then you have cody talking retics, saying they get a medium rat every 4 days lol. Balls, respectively, have their own metabolisms too. And with the category of ball pythons, they all have their own individual metabolisms.

Well yea... Eventually the monkey will type out romeo and juliet... If you don't have any examples then its safe to assume it barely ever happens. Maybe its never happened if there aren't any examples?

Ok, "possible". It's also "possible" i could hook up with Kate Upton. Both situations have such a minuscule chance of happening that the point is moot, imo. Why bother mentioning it if you can't even prove its ever happened? Like i said, maybe it hasn't.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

They all have different metabolisms. You mentioned a gtp before. Most people only feed them like every 3 weeks, right? Then you have cody talking retics, saying they get a medium rat every 4 days lol. Balls, respectively, have their own metabolisms too. And with the category of ball pythons, they all have their own individual metabolisms.

Well yea... Eventually the monkey will type out romeo and juliet... If you don't have any examples then its safe to assume it barely ever happens. Maybe its never happened if there aren't any examples?

Ok, "possible". It's also "possible" i could hook up with Kate Upton. Both situations have such a minuscule chance of happening that the point is moot, imo. Why bother mentioning it if you can't even prove its ever happened? Like i said, maybe it hasn't.

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Prove it wrong. Feed your ball any time it will take food and offer as many as it will take each time. Let's see what happens.

I don't know of any examples but I also am not wasting my time looking. Do you know of anybody that has been feeding a ball to much that is living a long healthy life?

Anything can be over fed. It does not matter how big the meal has to be or how often its given, there is always a point that is to much.

Well i would, but i don't think it'd be fair to start with snakes that aren't babies. If you think it would work still, let me know though. I'm willing to try it for awhile. Should i try it with my most aggressive eater or my least aggressive eater? My cinny female hasn't eaten since March 25th, when do you think she'll starve to death?

I think our definitions of "too much" just differ lol. I'm not saying offer your snake food everyday. I'm saying if you feed once a week, or every 5 days, then offering as many rats as the ball will take in that feeding won't hurt it. I'm more than willing to try this if you can think of a way for it to be done.

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong with any of this, i hope its not coming across like that lol. I'm just opinionated and disagree with you. Just debating here, not a personal attack or anything. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Well i would, but i don't think it'd be fair to start with snakes that aren't babies. If you think it would work still, let me know though. I'm willing to try it for awhile. Should i try it with my most aggressive eater or my least aggressive eater? My cinny female hasn't eaten since March 25th, when do you think she'll starve to death?

I think our definitions of "too much" just differ lol. I'm not saying offer your snake food everyday. I'm saying if you feed once a week, or every 5 days, then offering as many rats as the ball will take in that feeding won't hurt it. I'm more than willing to try this if you can think of a way for it to be done.

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I'm not. Its not worth any animals health to try this. That is probably the reason we don't have any examples. People seem to frown on animal testing now days.

It is because the snake owners are responsible their collections are fed properly. I'm not saying it would be something that would happen fast or that it would be easy with a stubborn eater. But given the right aggressive eater, enough time, and enough food I still believe you could make a ball python a unhealthy weight.

My hypo gal, previously mentioned, is my best eater. Even she refuses a second rat sometimes. And i don't feed twice a week. I usually only average 3-5 meals a month for all my snakes, i don't treat babies any differently. I bet i couldn't even convince my hypo to eat a 3rd rat. I've only ever offered 2 at one feeding, just because thats all i had thawed out. Next feeding, i'm going to offer as many as she'll take and see when she stops. I'd be surprised if she took 3. Shes almost 900g but i don't feed her 100g rats lol. They're like half that size. I'll be sure to record notes on it.

EDIT: actually, i think thats unfair to do it with just one snake. I'm going to wait 7 days from my last feeding, in which all 6 took one rat, and then offer them all as many as they'll eat at the next one. I doubt any of them will take more than 2. Except for my fire male, he may take more because he's been a spotty eater while breeding over the past few months.

I can contribute a bit. I personally usually feed if they'll eat as long as I have enough rats. Most of my snakes won't take more than one, maybe two at a time, most of the time. But if they still act hungry after the first or second or occasionally even third rat, I'll give them another. I'm not trying to grow them fast to breed sooner, I just figure they know if they're hungry.
I know I've read before that overweight females will lay slugs or small clutches. I got a female on breeding loan, had her for close to a year, finally bred her, and up until ovy she would eat 2 or 3 medium to large (prekilled if larger than a small medium) rats a week. She just wouldn't stop roaming around acting hungry until I'd give her another rat or two. I used her as the snake to give any rats the others found too big or just didn't want to. She never looked overweight from what I could tell and she laid 8 healthy eggs with no slugs last month, her first clutch. I personally will continue to feed if they seem hungry unless or until I see a negative effect from it.

I also think the rodents diet may come into play here too, the ppl who feed say dog food or really cheap rodent food, especially with higher fat content. I feel like that may eventually led to problems down the road for the snake. I feed Mazuri, as far as I'm aware it's the healthiest readily available.

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thank you everybody for your inputs. I will carely monitor my girl and downsize my rats a little so if she does take a second one its not so big.

Sad thing is, it always depends on the animal. Some dogs eat until they explode, because maybe tomorrow there will be no food. Some just eat when they are hungry. Snakes are the same in this, according to my experiences. Some of them are bulldozers, some of them are princesses. Until she is healthy, and you are not causing problems (liver, etc), then she is fine.

I feed my hatchling every 3 days. When I feed my rats is when I like to offer food to my snakes. The babies to 1 year olds seem to eat every 3 days. My older snake eat about every 6-9 days. Sometimes longer.

I feed on a 3 day schedule, but I offer smaller size rats.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

When in 2012 was she born?
My hypo is just about 1 year old and approaching 900g. My lesser that i got at the exact same time is 500ish grams. My hypo just eats more.

Imo, you're not over feeding. Im sure some will disagree though. My opinion is: if they're hungry they'll eat, and if they aren't hungry, we all know darn well they won't eat lol.

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It's very difficult to over feed a ball python, most will just stop eating and make you slow down.
There is a few that you can over feed and they'll take everything you throw at them, but that is the rare ball python.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Any examples of a ball regurging because of overfeeding?

You keep saying "snake". I agree, you can over feed snakes. I do not believe its possible (in 99% of cases) to over feed a ball python.

Do you have any examples of breeding size ball pythons starving themselves to death? Or any examples of a snake eating itself to death?

You give an example of feeding only once a week as an appropriate schedule. When it comes to balls, schedules are only for the keepers, imo.

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:clap: bravo my friend..bravo :D

sent from my incubator

Hypo girl took two rats last nite, its only been 4 days since she took 1 rat though. I left a 3rd in there ovenite and she didn't take it. I'm guessing she wasn't hungry anymore so she didn't take a 3rd but it could be because shes in shed. 3 small rats in one week and shes in shed is very good imo. On the opposite end, I'm happy with my lesser when she eats once a week lol. I didn't have time to thaw out that many rats so i couldn't try anything with anyone else. I'll probably offer again on monday nite.

Another point i'd like to make is that you have to know your snakes. Sometimes when i get a chance to feed two times in one week, i will never offer it to my lesser. She'll act like shes hungry and i end up leaving it in her tub and wasting a rat. No matter how much she begs, she only gets a rat once a week or its a waste.

Are you tracking how many grams your feeding and the hypo weight at the start of this? That way we will know if it takes more than the percent we usually recommend to feed weekly.

Just so I'm clear I'm not trying to say that all snakes will/can become over weight. I'm just saying that any snake could become over weight. Just because it does not usually happen does not mean that it can not.

No i didn't, i'll start that after she sheds out (she usually craps when she sheds lol). The rats she ate were both about 50g i'd say. I should have, but forgot lol.