Small Breeders?

Anyone have 2 year olds breed late in the year? I've got a 2 yr old that's 300g now and I'm wondering if she could go for a late year clutch or if I should just hold off until next spring like I originally had planned.

You could but you run the risk of her double clutching and not being able to handle it. Do you know if it runs in the line?

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Originally Posted by Dracoluna

You could but you run the risk of her double clutching and not being able to handle it. Do you know if it runs in the line?

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That's a good question to ask. I still have her parent's names/ID numbers so I'll contact the breeder and see. I have a male who's tub is next to hers and he's really interested in her (or appears to be). He's 170ish grams but he's just as long as she is.

I contacted the breeder and no snake on family tree double clutch on their own. She also says that this particular clutch are pretty robust and were some of her quickest growing babies. My girl's clutchmate actually sired a clutch this season.

Am I reading correctly that she is only 300g right now? Reasonable growth rate is ~100g/month, so I wouldn't even be considering breeding her this winter. I have a 650g girl that I've already written off until the 2014/15 season.

Edit - Ignore me completely, I had a blonde moment there. It would have helped for me to pay attention that this is in the "Corns" forum!

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Am I reading correctly that she is only 300g right now? Reasonable growth rate is ~100g/month, so I wouldn't even be considering breeding her this winter. I have a 650g girl that I've already written off until the 2014/15 season.

Edit - Ignore me completely, I had a blonde moment there. It would have helped for me to pay attention that this is in the "Corns" forum!

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:rofl::rofl: You had me completely confused for a moment!

Yes, my girl is a 300g cornsnake! Lordy, if she were a ball python I would be an idiot to try and breed her! The breeder is pretty certain that she could go and regain the weight quickly. Her only concern was that she may have ovulated. However, this will be my first corn clutch so I'm not really cure what a corn ovulation looks like. But with her just being breeding size, I don't -think- she would have ovulated.

I have a 850g ball python girl that I'm HOPING will be ready this fall. She's slamming rats. I'm thinking about giving my 2600g girl a year off to try and get an earlier clutch. At the rate she's going, I won't be getting eggs from her until August or September.

Yeah, I was pretty sure you had more sense than that! ;)

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Yeah, I was pretty sure you had more sense than that! ;)

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Sometimes, I have my moments but I generally don't fail that epically! I was instructed to feel for follicles in this female (much like with ball pythons). If I feel follicles, it's too late and she's ovulated. If I don't feel them, it can't hurt to pair. We'll see. She just ate a mouse yesterday so I'll hold off a few days and let her poop (usually day 3 or 4 post-meal for her) before I go feeling for follicles.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Sometimes, I have my moments but I generally don't fail that epically! I was instructed to feel for follicles in this female (much like with ball pythons). If I feel follicles, it's too late and she's ovulated. If I don't feel them, it can't hurt to pair. We'll see. She just ate a mouse yesterday so I'll hold off a few days and let her poop (usually day 3 or 4 post-meal for her) before I go feeling for follicles.

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Hmm...follicles are PRE-ovulation. After ovy, they become eggs (fert or not) or slugs. Follicles can resorb, which would mean there was no ovy and the chance was missed.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Hmm...follicles are PRE-ovulation. After ovy, they become eggs (fert or not) or slugs. Follicles can resorb, which would mean there was no ovy and the chance was missed.

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That's what I thought too. Here's what she said on facebook:

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Corn snakes will normally shed their skin right around the time they ovulate and are ready for breeding right after that happens in the spring. Whether I brumate them or not, they pretty much ovulate in the spring and lay eggs by late spring or very early summer. You often can palpate the individual follicles inside a corn that has ovulated if you run slightly pinched fingers down her lower body. They feel like a strand of pearls. Ovulating corns don't look like they swallowed a football or anything, but you can usually feel their follicles if you try. If you can feel them on your girl, go ahead and put a male in with her and see if he is interested. It might already be too late, though, unless that interest you mentioned was very recent. Some corns will lay their slugs, and others will reabsorb them. They normally do a fasting period, but if they are not bred well before that begins, then it is usually too late to get a get a fertile clutch.

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That was from Wendy Henderson (Wendhend here on the forums). She's got a lot more experience in breeding corns than I do. The only reason I asked about her possibly being receptive is that before I went out of town, I was cleaning cages and threw my male in with her (they are next to one another on the rack and I usually clean racks in rows) thinking both of them were too young to breed. However, the male was very interested in my girl and was trying to court her. That's what made me wonder if she was ready for breeding.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Sometimes, I have my moments but I generally don't fail that epically! I was instructed to feel for follicles in this female (much like with ball pythons). If I feel follicles, it's too late and she's ovulated. If I don't feel them, it can't hurt to pair. We'll see. She just ate a mouse yesterday so I'll hold off a few days and let her poop (usually day 3 or 4 post-meal for her) before I go feeling for follicles.

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No, it's not necessarily too late to breed if you feel the follicles. Right after that pre-ovulation skin shed, you often can feel them and should pair them then. From my experience, the male corns only tend to be interested for a small window of time after that, which doesn't seem to last more than a couple of weeks, unlike ball pythons, who will mate for weeks to months before the actual ovulation, which you can see. Corns just have palpable lumps that you can often feel for a few weeks during the breeding season, and it can be hard to tell whether they are follicles, slugs or fertile eggs when you feel them. If your female corn has started fasting, though, you pretty much know she has already ovulated, and you won't be able to get a fertile clutch if you try to breed her. That has been my experience.

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Originally Posted by wendhend

No, it's not necessarily too late to breed if you feel the follicles. Right after that pre-ovulation skin shed, you often can feel them and should pair them then. From my experience, the male corns only tend to be interested for a small window of time after that, which doesn't seem to last more than a couple of weeks, unlike ball pythons, who will mate for weeks to months before the actual ovulation, which you can see. Corns just have palpable lumps that you can often feel for a few weeks during the breeding season, and it can be hard to tell whether they are follicles, slugs or fertile eggs when you feel them. If your female corn has started fasting, though, you pretty much know she has already ovulated, and you won't be able to get a fertile clutch if you try to breed her. That has been my experience.

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The only time my girl has missed a meal is the day after I brought her home over a year ago. Otherwise, she's eaten every time for me. None of my corns miss meals. I can guarantee they will all eat every week. Her last shed was May 20th and that was just prior to when i noticed the interest from the male. I don't feel any follicles, though I was very, very gentle with her having just eaten.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

The only time my girl has missed a meal is the day after I brought her home over a year ago. Otherwise, she's eaten every time for me. None of my corns miss meals. I can guarantee they will all eat every week. Her last shed was May 20th and that was just prior to when i noticed the interest from the male. I don't feel any follicles, though I was very, very gentle with her having just eaten.

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Breanna, sorry if anything I said in that message to you this morning did not make sense. I had just worked a long 12-hour night shift and was about to go to bed. It sounds like she may have been ready and reabsorbed. You do usually have to palpate a litte harder to feel anything on more hefty corns, though, but of course you don't want her to regurgitate her mouse.

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Originally Posted by wendhend

Breanna, sorry if anything I said in that message to you this morning did not make sense. I had just worked a long 12-hour night shift and was about to go to bed. It sounds like she may have been ready and reabsorbed. You do usually have to palpate a litte harder to feel anything on more hefty corns, though, but of course you don't want her to regurgitate her mouse.

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You made perfect sense to me!

Her safety is my first priority. I may put the male in with her in a few days and see if I see the same behavior. If I don't, then I'll just wait and do as planned this spring. That gives her time to do some more growing and I'm okay with that!

Maybe my other female (who's a month younger than the bloodred) will go through a growth spurt this summer. The male is a year later than her and he's already almost at her current size. She's my most active corn snake and I swear she's my slowest grower! I originally purchased the male for her (he's an Anery motley het amel and she's a snow motley) and a hypo lavender PH motley for the bloodred. However, it looks like I might use the anery motley on the bloodred to hopefully prove out her het amel and then the following year use the hypo lavender.

Corns are so interesting with their growth rates!
the two 2011s are 300g and 180g
the two 2012s 150g and 60g.

I've also got a miami phase corn that's more of a pet. She's a 2012 and about 110g. I sold an Alabama phase back in January. I bet if I still had her she would be pushing 200g by now. She was super aggressive but a killer eater and fast grower. I just find it amusing how slow/quick some of them grow.

Hey BH, do you also do leopard geckos?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Hey BH, do you also do leopard geckos?

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no...I don't own any geckos, lizzards, or anything other than my corns and my ball pythons.

If the male's showing interest, go for it. Maybe you'll catch a second ovulation (second clutch of the season) and get a few. That will also ensure she doesn't end up double clutching on you unintentionally. As far as eating goes, the only meal my girl ever missed was the one the week she laid eggs. Other than that, she ate like a horse... or rather a corn snake. ;)

I thought I would post an update. I put Travis (my male) in with Anuna (the female) and Travis is very excited and twiching. He's chasing her around the tub and rubbing his chin on her like he should be. Anuna dropped a HUGE poop (I've never seen her poop so much at one time!) I thought I saw her twitch once or twice. There's definitely some courting going on. I went ahead and shut the tub and I'm observing from afar. Maybe I'll see a lock, maybe I won't. I'll give it some time.

So, did they lock?

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Originally Posted by wendhend

So, did they lock?

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Not that I saw. I left them together overnight and by morning they were on opposite sides of the tub.

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Not that I saw. I left them together overnight and by morning they were on opposite sides of the tub.

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Hard to know then. They never lock for a whole day or two like we see with the ball pythons. I've never seen it take more than an hour. Not sure what kind of substrate you have in the tubs, but if you found any yellow "goo" that looks like snot, then they probably bred.

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Originally Posted by wendhend

Hard to know then. They never lock for a whole day or two like we see with the ball pythons. I've never seen it take more than an hour. Not sure what kind of substrate you have in the tubs, but if you found any yellow "goo" that looks like snot, then they probably bred.

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I use printed newspaper. I cleaned out the tub because they both dirtied it up and I hate messy tubs. I don't remember seeing any goo (if it was something out of the ordinary, I probably would have noticed).

However...I ran another "experiment" and put him back with her. He's no longer twitching...at all. Usually he starts right when I put them together.

I know this is a somewhat old thread but, I thought I'd chime in.

Please note: Though we've owned corns for a few years, this is our first year breeding. (But I just have a clutch--my first--hatching out right now, so, eee!) I'm by no means an expert, nor do I want to come off as trying to be one. This is just my experience and what I've learned.

When you're putting pairs together, you don't need to leave them overnight or days like you do with ball pythons. Corn snakes are pretty quick about the whole business. If you haven't seen them stop chasing each other around the tank in the first half hour or forty-five minutes, it's a good idea to separate them, wait a few days, and give it another shot.