Mites? Or what..

Alright. So my female ball python (Swayze) has some sort of bug issue?... I was holding her the other day and I noticed a little white bug very small crawl over her head. Any idea what it is? I then was looking at her and I noticed some mites (black/brown) in her belly scales, so I gave her a bath then gave her another one with bedadine. And some died because I didn't see the same amount. I am still bathing her daily because I am very freaked out over this situation. I checked my other snake and he doesn't have anything at all so he is okay. I guess what I am asking is what can I do? And how do I completely and safely get rid of them? I have never had bugs before this. I was buying rats from a local bp breeder who raised his own but every time I did I noticed that they had flea like bugs in there fur. So I ended up killing and disposing of them after I realized the bugs on the rats. Only my female eats rats right now though. And I know they say that rats mites can't infest snakes but... I am very worried. :confusd::please:

I had an issue with mite a couple weeks ago although mine were black... It could be some sort of parasite but I think one of the more experienced people can help you. If you purchase some "Reptile Spray" it kills mites on contact and worked great on clearing up Luna's mite problem... Luna is my female Albino BP. She still has some bruising from the mites eating at her but I am told after a couple sheds it should go away. :) I hope I was of some help!

It was helpful. I wish more people would reply. I've been setting here worried all morning. I probably shouldn't be this worried, but I just am. Any ideas where I can buy reptile spray? I am in Oklahoma and I can't seem to find any that I don't have to order and have shipped

I got mine at a local pet store called Buckles feed depot, but they are only in Indiana I believe. I would not get the Reptile Spray until you figure out what it is though. From the sounds of it if your BP has black specks in the scales it would most likely be mites. They can form in the substrate you use as well as I think that is where mine came from. I believe PetCo has Reptile Spray if you have any of those around you... but other than that you may have to order it... I really hope a more experienced personn replies to help!

I don't see anymore of the white bugs. But she does have normal mites.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

I don't see anymore of the white bugs. But she does have normal mites.

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Ok, then I would DEFINATLY recomend Reptile Spray... That's all I can say for now, until someone with more experience jumps in. Also I understand your urgency I was flipped out completely and worried when my BP had mites :(

Yup. I guess I am going to start calling all the local pet stores to see if they carry it. Some body has to! Thank you for the help though. I am a youth breeder and all this is still very new to me.

When I hear about mites, all I can advise is get Provent-a-mite. Don't waste your time with soaking and all that BS. Just get your can of PAM, spray the substrate, let it dry and within 2 weeks all the mites (including the ones on your snake) will be dead.

simple.

can you buy pam in petstores or only online

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

can you buy pam in petstores or only online

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You may be able to buy it in a specialty store, but I'd just buy it direct from them online. You could also use NIX, which I have heard numerous times being used with good results (available in most drug stores and also at Walmart). I've only used PAM though, so I cannot say for sure if NIX does work or how to use it properly. I'm sure if you googled it, you'd figure it out pretty quick though.

Is it better to use PAM or NIX alone or use one of those along with something that I can put directly on to her? I noticed they are in the edges of her eyes and in her heat pits. I dont see them anywhere exceot for there.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

Is it better to use PAM or NIX alone or use one of those along with something that I can put directly on to her? I noticed they are in the edges of her eyes and in her heat pits. I dont see them anywhere exceot for there.

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I don't know about NIX.

But, for PAM you can spray the bedding in the tank/tub and then let it dry. It'll kill all the mites in the tank/tub and also on her. You could, if you wanted to, soak her in water for a few minutes. Mites can't swim and will drown. If shes covered then I'd order the PAM now and start soaking her every day for 5 minutes per day just to keep them under control. Once you get the PAM and spray the inside of the tank/tub you won't need to worry anymore. I wouldn't wait though, the mites do hurt your snake and the stress has been know to cause Ball Pythons to stop eating for long periods of time.

I will have my mom order it once she gets home considering I am under 18. Can they effect the snakes sight/ Ive noticed she has been awfully jumpy and thats not like her at all.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

I will have my mom order it once she gets home considering I am under 18. Can they effect the snakes sight/ Ive noticed she has been awfully jumpy and thats not like her at all.

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You know how irritating it is when you get an eyelash in your eye?

Now imagine a bunch of bugs in your eye.

need I say more? lol

Oh geez, poor snake. :mad: I will definetly get it ordered. Do you know what the little white bugs could have been? I had her on Eco Earth before I noticed the mites. Now shes on paper towels.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

Oh geez, poor snake. :mad: I will definetly get it ordered. Do you know what the little white bugs could have been? I had her on Eco Earth before I noticed the mites. Now shes on paper towels.

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Sometimes there are bugs that live on/in substrates. To my knowledge they aren't harmful to your snakes. I noticed them when I used to use cypress mulch. I'm not 100% sure what they are though, sorry.

Here is my tale on Nix. Snakewhisperer actually posted on a different forum, but I am copy and pasting here.

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Originally Posted by Snakewhisperer

PAM and Nix use the same active ingredient, Permethrin. It is a pyrethroid contact insecticide. Personally I would spray a paper towel and use that to wipe down the snake, then another wipe with plain water to rinse off any residue. Permethrin is only toxic in low volumes if ingested by a reptile, and is not absorbed through the skin. The Nix solution and PAM also have about the same dilution. Just the thoughts of someone who works with pyrethroid insecticides every day.

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No, no it absolutely is not the same active ingredient. Not to mention, what are the inert ingredients?

I recently emailed the makers of Provent A Mite and they brought up some really good points.Purple is me, Blue is Bob from Pro Products

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Hello there,

I am wondering about your product, Provent-A-Mite.

In the reptile world there is always so much speculation about why PAM is not readily available in Canada. I have heard rumors that it's because the bottle doesn't have a French label. Can you confirm or deny this?

Also many people believe that the lice shampoo "Nix" uses the same active ingredient. From my understanding, "Permethrin" is simply a family of pesticides, a broad name in much the same way that facial tissue is called "Kleenex." Can you also shed some light on this?

Thanks so much!

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Hi Katia,



Regarding the active in any product, we are only required to list the generic name of the active. You are correct that there are many different technicals of our active. Since the cis-trans ratio is different with each technical, the toxicity can vary widely. In addition to the active, there are many other chemicals in a formula that are not listed. Many common "inerts" in other formulas are toxic to reptiles. Since the product is only tested and approved for the uses stated on the label, a product that is designed to kill insects or arthropods on a plant or even on a person do not have to provide any documentation that the formula would be safe to use with reptiles. Since other formulas are labeled for use with crops, inanimate objects or mammals which have a very high tolerance toward even the most toxic cis-trans ratios available, labeled uses are not an issue. These formulas are also cheaper and the higher toxicities more effective in killing the stated pests for labeled uses, so make up the vast majority of products sold.



Another fact people are not aware of is that a company can submit several different alternate formulas during the initial approval process of the master label. Once all of the alternate formulas are approved for the labeled uses, the company can change these formulas whenever they want. This is a common practice and allows the manufacture to modify their formulas to get the best prices on their required chemicals. Often people will call us and say they have been using an off-labeled product without any problems and all of a sudden they used it and it killed their animals. This is because the company changed to an alternate formula or the formula was too toxic and they were just lucky in the past. All of these formulas are trade secrets any despite any claim from any person, no one knows what any of these formulas are and with the exception of the generic active, they have no idea which specific technical is being used, what the actual cis-trans ration is (the label only provides a range, not what technical is actually in the product) or what the remains ingredients are in the formula.



Everyone is an "expert" and states that many products are safe to use with reptiles, while in reality, they do not have a clue as to what they are using or recommending and often these products will cause acute or chronic health problems with reptiles. Creating a chronic health issue is a real issue and no one relates the use of an off-labeled product with health problems or the death of an animal several months or years after such use.



The bottom line is unless the product has been formulated and approved for a specific use with a specific host, there is no way of knowing what such use on a non-labeled host may cause and we end up subjecting our animals as "guinea pigs". Many times in the past, people have sworn that using a product is safe and effective, only to find out over time the product was not safe and caused the demise of many animals (no pest strips are a classic example of this).



You mention Nix which is a lice shampoo for humans. First, even the more toxic technicals of permethrin will not cause issues with humans and this formula is specifically designed to break down quickly (the authorities did not want any residual on ones head), so once the bottle is opened, it will readily break down, quickly reducing any effectiveness. There are also several inerts in Nix, including a common fabric softener, which can create various issues with reptiles (since this is an FDA approved product, not EPA, they must disclose the inerts used). One also does not know which technical is being used as they have several alternate formulas, so you are always taking a risk that any bottle could be detrimental to the animal. For these reasons, it is actually more expensive to use since you really need to use a new bottle for each application and this product will provide minimal residual protection, so must be used much more frequently which adds significantly to the cost per application. Because it breaks down readily, there is also a real risk of subjecting the pest to a sub-lethal dose, which results in the pest developing resistance. This actually has happened with Nix because people kept using the same concentrate since they didn't want to spend more money on a new bottle for each application. In several countries, including Canada, this has become a real problem and there are many clinical studies showing these chemically resistant lice are becoming much harder to eradicate.



As to sales of our product in Canada, there are not enough sales to cover the cost to register the product and there are some regulatory disclosures we will not comply with (our formula is proprietary and we will not disclose it to anyone). We are not violating any laws sending it to Canada as long as we disclose the contents of the package. It is up to customs if they will allow entry into the country. To date, we have not had an issue sending to Canada, but the product is not officially registered in Canada.



Bob @ Pro Products
promist@comcast.net
www.pro-products.com

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Hi Bob, thank you so much for your thorough response.

Do you mind if I post this on the reptile forums, as A LOT of people are recommending Nix and the like. It would be really helpful to be able to have the information straight from your company that other products are not safe to use and may put their reptiles in harms way.

Also could you clarify, I read this recently:

”I came across a thread on another forum about the use of PAM. In that thread a member mentioned that the company that makes PAM also makes the same product for distribution under a different name at a fraction of the price”

Here is the product they are referring to:

http://m.rei.com/mt/www.rei.com/prod...mp-spray-24-oz

I have no idea where they got the idea that Pro-Products also makes Sawyers, is this true or false?

Thank you ever so much!

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Katia,



As I said earlier, many people think they are experts and know everything about these products, so will always reply that we are making these statements just to make sales and that our product and active is the same as these other products. They are absolutely wrong and unfortunately, the animals are the ones that suffer when exposed to a formulas that contains chemicals that are toxic to reptiles. All of these products have proprietary formulas (with the exception of Nix or other human topicals) and unless one is an officer in that company with access to the formula, there is no way they can have this information. As Ron White says, "you can't fix stupid". Posting to any forums in the past brings out these people that have to "prove" they are right, so we gave up a long time ago trying to educate the public.



The link you posted is a classic example of this. This is not our company and we do not have any affiliation with them. We are the sole manufacture of our product. This product is labeled to treat clothing, tents and other fabrics. The product can never be toxic to any type of fabric and any contact with the material would be to a human or possibly another mammal, all who have a very high tolerance to even the most toxic technicals sold, which are much cheaper to purchase and what most manufactures use.



Anyone can use what they want, but it is a shame that many animals develop health issues over time because they are being subjected to chemicals that are toxic both acutely and chronically due to the ignorance of the user and their inability to understand these differences or worse, create a resistant strain of mites that can't be controlled with any product.



Bob @ Pro Products
promist@comcast.net
www.pro-products.com
845-628-8960

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