What's the attitude of your SD retics?

I think retics are really cool looking but don't really have any interest in a 20ft snake lol. I really loved SD retics but then i saw some videos of them and their attitudes seem to vary A LOT. Some shoot right out of the tub looking for food, some are as calm as ball pythons, some let you take them out but then don't stop squirming around like a corn snake etc.

I'm potentially interested in this species as my first non-bp species. I've also been researching boas and carpets too though. (Right now i think boas are winning lol). I'm sure eventually ill have one of each anyways haha. But anyways, tell me how your SD's are temperament wise. It doesn't have to be super detailed (though id definitely appreciate that too :) ) i just want to get a general consensus of how they tend to be.

Thanks!

I held my 50% SD Super Tiger I got from Travis Kubes last night for the first time, and that was a whole new experience to say the least. She is the complete opposite of the other two who are calm as could be. I wasn't even planning on holding her but when I opened the tub she came right out, mouth open, and seemed to be homing in on my face. It was wild. I couldn't tell if it was just a really aggressive feeding response or what was going on. I held her for about 3 minutes and she struck and moved non stop. She is only a month old though, so I feel like this will change a lot as she grows. I also fed her about 30 minutes after the whole ordeal and she ate no problem.

I'm also interested in this. I think I'll be getting one regardless, but I'd like to know what I'll be getting myself into :D

As the new morphs come out, I feel some of the bigger breeders are trying to downplay what it's like owning one of these giants. The word 'dwarf' implies something that they are not. A full grown SD is still a BEAST of an animal, even compared to a full grown boa. If you 'slow grow' or 'maintenance feed' a male I suspect based on no experience that it will be hungry all the time and try to eat your face. I think hook training is key. There are a number of safety precautions that probably make it easier - but a lot of times when I see videos or hear people speak about the truth of keeping them, they're pretty wild.

When I have the space and funds for a huge reptile, I'm getting a tegu or monitor. They're smart, diurnal, and fun to watch inside their enclosure. After a certain size, huge snakes can't really come out and 'hang out' so then you're just feeding it and watching it sleep.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

As the new morphs come out, I feel some of the bigger breeders are trying to downplay what it's like owning one of these giants. The word 'dwarf' implies something that they are not. A full grown SD is still a BEAST of an animal, even compared to a full grown boa. If you 'slow grow' or 'maintenance feed' a male I suspect based on no experience that it will be hungry all the time and try to eat your face. I think hook training is key. There are a number of safety precautions that probably make it easier - but a lot of times when I see videos or hear people speak about the truth of keeping them, they're pretty wild.

When I have the space and funds for a huge reptile, I'm getting a tegu or monitor. They're smart, diurnal, and fun to watch inside their enclosure. After a certain size, huge snakes can't really come out and 'hang out' so then you're just feeding it and watching it sleep.

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I disagree, a 100% SD will max out at about six feet and be considerably smaller than your average BCI, and just like any snake, some will be calm, some will be feisty, and some will like to move. I do agree that hook training is important but no more than it is with a couple of my carpets.

I think I am going to take a video of my amel and het amel this afternoon so you all can see what 2 well fed 50% SD retics look like and act like at almost a year and a half old.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

As the new morphs come out, I feel some of the bigger breeders are trying to downplay what it's like owning one of these giants. The word 'dwarf' implies something that they are not. A full grown SD is still a BEAST of an animal, even compared to a full grown boa. If you 'slow grow' or 'maintenance feed' a male I suspect based on no experience that it will be hungry all the time and try to eat your face. I think hook training is key. There are a number of safety precautions that probably make it easier - but a lot of times when I see videos or hear people speak about the truth of keeping them, they're pretty wild.

When I have the space and funds for a huge reptile, I'm getting a tegu or monitor. They're smart, diurnal, and fun to watch inside their enclosure. After a certain size, huge snakes can't really come out and 'hang out' so then you're just feeding it and watching it sleep.

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Really? Like wes said, SD's max out around 6 feet and theyre slim like a carpet python. (From my research, not experience). I'd say once you hit the 10ft+ range thats where snakes start to get beastly, for me at least.

I'd rather handle a pissy SD retic than deal with a pissed of monitor haha. Just personal preference i guess though.

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Originally Posted by Wes

I think I am going to take a video of my amel and het amel this afternoon so you all can see what 2 well fed 50% SD retics look like and act like at almost a year and a half old.

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Please do!! :)

A true SD might max out at 6-8 feet but I don't think there are that many that are true SDs. They also grow slowly - I'd make sure to take weigh-ins from people that have had them for 4+ years. If you even look at a 50% SD like most of the morph ones are, those get 10-12 ft. A dwarf is 10 - 12 feet. Remember, a full size retic is a 15+ foot animal. Slender is a relative term - for a 15 foot animal being as thick around as your thigh is slender.

Again I'm basing this off very little knowledge - just playing devil's advocate because I've read enough where people say they have a dwarf or a 50% dwaf or a SD animal and the word dwarf certainly doesn't well describe what I see. There are lots of people that think they have a dwarf of super dwarf and the animal hits 10 feet and continues growing strong. What do you do then?

I disagree. From what i've seen they don't get close to 10ft. As long as you buy from a trustworthy source, i think you'd be all set.

Also, i don't think any snake gets as big as my thunder thighs. They're like 30" around haha.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I think retics are really cool looking but don't really have any interest in a 20ft snake lol.

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mainland males average 12-14 feet :gj:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

If you 'slow grow' or 'maintenance feed' a male I suspect based on no experience that it will be hungry all the time and try to eat your face. I think hook training is key. There are a number of safety precautions that probably make it easier - but a lot of times when I see videos or hear people speak about the truth of keeping them, they're pretty wild.

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if you starve it it may be hungry all the time, but you can grow it "slowER" without power feeding it or starving it. i've seen videos online where people will only feed their full grown retic a smaller meal once a month, and those animals look way too thin. granted i've only had my mainland a few months, i noticed no difference in his feeding response from when i was power feeding him 2 large meals a week to when i switched to one meal a week that was about as round as his thickest girth. if anything, he may have chilled out a little because he only expects food on sundays (feeding day). i do agree that hook training is necessary and can be a very useful tool. when you say, "but a lot of times when I see videos or hear people speak about the truth of keeping them, they're pretty wild," it sounds like the only videos you believe to be "true" of retics are the ones of people with aggressive ones. i don't sell retics and gain nothing monetarily from sugar coating them, just figured i'd chime in to say mine is now my favorite animal to work with and has never shown one sign of aggression asides from the typical feeding response, and even now that he's starting to realize the hook rubbing means "no food" isn't that big of a deal. i'm still on my toes whenever i'm taking him out, as they should be respected, but then again, so should any animal, especially snakes.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

There are lots of people that think they have a dwarf of super dwarf and the animal hits 10 feet and continues growing strong. What do you do then?

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super dwarfs are life hets, if you buy from a well known and trusted breeder who's been doing this a while and knows what to expect you shouldn't have this problem.

Mike,
hopefully reptileexperts will chime in. i don't have any experience with dwarves or SD and i know he has quite a few. one thing i've found out is no amount of reading will give you the experience like hands on interaction. people often advise against retics, which i think does have it's time and place, ESPECIALLY if a person considering getting one has little or no experience with snakes, but i've also noticed 90% of the people doing the advising against getting a retic are people who have never owned one themselves and experienced how truly amazing these animals are. you're a snake guy. you know what it takes to keep them healthy and happy. if you've been thinking about this for a while and it's not a impulse buy, i say go for it. you won't regret it. if you get a higher % SD from a respected breeder, you won't have to worry about eventually having a "monster," or better yet, a giant, on your hands. and plain ole purple albinos are pretty cheap now, you'll just have to pay for getting that super dwarf blood mixed in there.

http://youtu.be/7hGv3dG_KGc

Got a chance to make the video on my lunch break. Sorry it just cuts off at the end, the battery died.

Edit: sorry for the video quality as well. I actually recorded it at 720p but it said it was going to take 72 minutes to upload so I had to scale it down.

The males attitude was really calm in that video. I do like them a lot. Unfortunately the cool looking ones are all thousands of dollars haha. (At least in SD form).

I personally do not think that as the SDs become more popular breeders will downplay the power of their snakes, however I do believe that interested people will overlook the power of the snake because they think it's pretty. I believe the SDs will open the doors for people who liked retics but couldn't handle an 15+ foot snake.

I have a '12 62.5% SD Tiger male from Kristopher Brown with Vital Exotics.

The SD was the first retic I owned. I was always nervous about retics, was always something I admired from afar but never thought I would own. Then I learned about SDs and I was interested. I read all the horror stories of bad mannered SDs that were flightly and aggressive. I did a bit more research, thought about it for about six months and then decided it was worth it. If you haven't heard of Retic Nation it's awesome, highly recommend it. They do not beat around the bush or stick a cutsey label on it. I really appreciate all the information I learned from just reading through the posts everyday. I researched breeders and talked to them quite a bit. I stumbled across Vital Exotics page one day and saw a tiger I had to have. Talked to Kris about him and he assured me he had a great attitude so I went for it. I am completely smitten with this little guy. (The snake not Kris. Although he is a good guy) The first time I cleaned his tank he struck at the tub. I was super nervous about holding him, however he is the most relaxed snake I have. I love him to pieces he is everything I could ever want in one snake. He looks amazing (although I am super bias) and his temperament is perfect. He likes to hang out in my hands or crawl up my body. He is super curious and wants to poke around into everything, however I have no issues redirecting him. He has yet to try to bite me at all. I feed him a small rat once a week or a rat pup every 4 days if he starts to roam or push.

I have a 100% SD female, shes been flighty since day 1. Taking her out for handling she just as to move and get away until she calms down or gets tired out, whichever comes first, shes definitly one of the ones who you open her tub and shes ready to fly out. Not in a agressive way, just always on the move :P

I had a 100% SD female that I ended up selling to a friend. She was full grown in these pics. She was live handling a live whip. It took about 10-15 minutes to calm her when i would take her out. She had to be hooked out as she would strike at anything coming in her cage. She may have been only 6 ft, but I would not recommend one like her to someone who does not have experience with these guys.

Even when she was smaller she had to be worked to calm her down. She was great to handle once she slowed down though. She would even curl up in my lap and hang out. Even at 5 years old and fully grown.

I was bitten by her twice and of rather be bitten by any boa. They have a different way of biting (they chew) and their teeth do more damage.

I recommend raising one from a baby and handling often. Learn all their ins and outs.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

A true SD might max out at 6-8 feet but I don't think there are that many that are true SDs. They also grow slowly - I'd make sure to take weigh-ins from people that have had them for 4+ years. If you even look at a 50% SD like most of the morph ones are, those get 10-12 ft. A dwarf is 10 - 12 feet. Remember, a full size retic is a 15+ foot animal. Slender is a relative term - for a 15 foot animal being as thick around as your thigh is slender.

Again I'm basing this off very little knowledge - just playing devil's advocate because I've read enough where people say they have a dwarf or a 50% dwaf or a SD animal and the word dwarf certainly doesn't well describe what I see. There are lots of people that think they have a dwarf of super dwarf and the animal hits 10 feet and continues growing strong. What do you do then?

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You might want to double check your info...one of the most knowledgeable people on here when it comes to retics would be TheReptileExpert....there are PLENTY of dwarfs and superdwarfs out there....some 100% others bred to be 50 or 62.7 or 75%....It is my understanding that they are NOT slow growing if fed regularly and properly. I cannot wait for mine any day now from Travis Kubes.

Ok - lots of information out here and Mr Lang was just making me cringe at reading his VERY one sided posts that are not exactly the truth but more of a fear of what could be, rather than what actually is.

If you're looking at a full blooded SD, you can expect a more flighty snake like that of a corn snake, its just in their nature. My adult pure SD male is less than 5' pounds large rats weekly, and refuses to grow any larger. I can hold him for a bit before he absolutely goes nuts on the flight scale, but he is very flighty once he's been out of the cage for more than 5 minutes. Pure SD are out there and available. Look for the reputable resources and you'll be fine. That being said - I can't honestly suggest a Pure SD because while they are relatively smaller (think the Kalatoa locales if you want smallest, Kaydui if you want the next to the smallest maxing around 8-9 ft) they do remain pretty flighty during the most of their life, more so for males than females.

50% SD Crosses are quite popular right now because more and more people are getting into SD crossings to make albinos, tigers, super tigers, motley, and goldenchild now. You have to realize that any morph that is not Anery did not come from SD blood initially. So it came from a mainland source where size can come into play. I've wrote this spew a hundred times on this forum, but its always worth repeating. But this is about handling. Most of my 50% SD Crosses, handle like a dream and will absolutely behaive like my mainlands and mostly mainland retics. They are calmer outside of the cage, and generally do not try and flee too often. But with 50% of the blood being mainland it does effect the size quite abit. You need at least 75% SD blood to ensure that you're snake willl max at or around 8', with 50% even your males can and will get 8-9', and females sometimes up to 12'. This does sound large, and it is. No reason to downplay it. But let me also conteract something that was said earlier... retics are made to be slender. NOT heavy bodied like burmese / anaconda / boa constrictors. That being said, SD blood tends to make retics that stay quite slender, and when you factor in a female that is breeding being less than 20 lb, while you're female mainland may be around 80 lb breeding around 16-17', it is a very large difference, in length, and girth.

Jampea is another misguided "dwarf". There are some monster Jampea out there. Think about the Gasper Jampea which is around 17', and just has massive offspring, while it IS a pure jampea, it just had a lot more potential than the other Jampeas out there. IF you give a retics ample space and food, they willl do quite well on a growth scale, this includes any % SD as long as it has mainland blood in its roots. The reason these snakes were dwarven by evolution is the island in which they came from. Kalatoa is a very small island off the mainland of indonesia. These snakes have less food availability, less space to set up territories, and over time natural selection has selected for smaller and smaller snakes. Jampea island is larger than some of the other locale islands, but it only has food influxes with bird breeding season. So it feeds heavy for a certain point of the year, then very very light there after in the wild. This keeps these retics maxing out around 9-10 ft for a breeding sized female. While you can exceed this with proper care and excessive feeding, you can also make sure they stay healthy by pulling back food, slow growing your retic, and ensuring it never becomes obese.

I really need to just pull out all my stuff and make a video on these guys to help aid in some of the questions out there. SD retics really are capable for MOST keepers who are in the right mind of what they are getting into. They are starting to get more and more morphs into higher and higher % SD blood. Right now many things are going to be hitting the market at 75% SD this coming year - me myself, will be producing 75% SD Anery, SD Platty het anery, and SD het Anery as one of my smallest sized clutches. I know in the UK they hit on 87.5% SD (Kalatoa) Tiger retics this year, and they are absolutely insane looking!!! and tiny. Dope-sick-retics (Venus blue) hit on 75% SD Sunfires this season, and those guys hatched out around 37 grams! WOW . . . And remember, the point to the OP - prue SD are quite flighty, and have very little variation to offer. But mixed blood generally offers a more calm retic (or one that will become calm with size, don't worry wes, my little tiger girl from early last year from Travis was the same way when I first got her).

Boas are great. They are cheap to feed, easy to clean after, come in some nice colors and patterns, and have some great size to them. Carpets are pretty, have a unique personality, and are a managable size, but there are limited morphs out there for those who want that, and so many mixes have been done that getting true origin carpet pythons is harder and harder, but still very much appreciated.

All in all mike - go to a show. See some super dwarf retic crosses. Talk to Travis Kubes if he goes to a show near you, or Kris brown from Vital Exotics. Retics are getting bred smaller and smaller genetically. Their personalities are unmatched, and their ability to be handled is excellent (agian when we deal less so with the pure SD stuff).

My $0.02

Cheers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRwJvUIXuW4
My adult 50% SD Tiger about 6 months back. I actually have updating feeding videos, I just haven't hosted them yet.

Hey Mike,

You've seen my video. I have a 100% pure SD pair. I read reptileexperts post and found myself nodding in agreement frequently. Mine are a bit flighty. My male used to be pretty docile but he's quite a bit more flighty and bitey now. He is definitely a bite first and ask questions later animal. He does calm down considerably once he's out of the tub but still makes most inexperienced people a bit nervous. My girlfriend doesn't like to be around when he's out. He's about 2.5 years and around 5'. My female used to be really flighty and bitey but has been much more mild lately at least in the bitey department. She is pretty flighty once she comes out of the cage. After some handling she does slow down but never really quite quits moving. She's also 2.5 years old and now nearly 6'. I didn't slow grow them or maintenance feed. They ate frequently as they grew up. I have slowed down my offerings. Mine eat every 7-10 days on medium rats and maintain healthy weight. They also eat some retired mice randomly. They definitely aren't picky eaters :D

Regards,

B

Really appreciate all the information you provided Cody. I would be very interested in seeing a video specifically about SDs. NERD just put a new video out on youtube about retics and I found it very helpful as well. I am contemplating getting into 50%, the only thing really holding me back is worry about further legislation, and my tiny apartment. I would hate to sink thousands into a species and then lose it all from a lacey act type restriction.

I reread my post and I read the rest of the posts here. I'm not seeing much that would warrant a cringe response as it isn't far off what you posted yourself.

My main points were:

1. They can be feisty and flighty - Mike posted to SimpleMans video 2 months ago in a nearly identical thread to this that he didn't want a snake that flighty. While you can say "most can be calm with other blood" you've then removed them from the category of being a 6 foot animal - with size being another detail Mike pretty clearly outlined as being important.

2. The 'what if' is not to be ignored. What if he gets a SD from someone less than reputable and it ends up crossing the 7 foot mark? 8 foot? 9 foot? If you aren't prepared for 'what ifs' you shouldn't take the responsibility for them.

I think overall my main takeaways were reflected in reptileexperts post. I think my post and reptileexperts post compliment one another with the same facts, just written in a slightly different tone. Mine stands as a warning, while reptileexperts states fact more clearly as he is more educated on them. If my posts were read as trying to shoot down the decision they weren't, just that there is a deep amount of thought involved before making the decision. I'm confident Mike has been / is doing his due diligence in weighing all the factors before making his decision.

Lacey Act restrictions on crossing state lines is definitely something to be concerned with. And of course, you will need to already check local and state regulations. People tend to forget that SD retics, are still retics and need to have proper permits in many areas. In Texas for instance you need a simple controlled snake permit to keep them, and a commercial controlled snake permit to sell them.

Mr Lang - there was still a lot of information that can be taken the wrong way just because your post only looked at the extreme end of the spectrum. most 50% SD males top around 8-9 ft, and females usually stay under 10 ft, but can get up there. Pure SD are still quite easy to come by, just need to catch them at the right time of the year. But again, pure SD are just soooo flighty, they are nice for shrinking projects down, but not exactly the best retic project. 75% SD are going to be the best alternative for many individuals, with 50% SD coming in a close second. I'll see about putting together a video tomorrow showing some of the differences between a 2 month old, 14 month old, 18 month old, and 5+ year old 50% SD Retic that can hopefully demonstrate this.

Cheers!

Mr. Lang i didn't take anything you said in a real negative way. I disagreed with some of it, but playing devils advocate is fine by me. I do it all the time to people haha. Like i said, I'm not dead set on getting one necessarily. I've been talking to kali about boas too and they're still very much in the running. Like i said, down the road i'll hopefully have the opportunity to keep both but right now I'm just trying to decide what i wanna start with and what i like more.

I really appreciate all the info cody, a video would be really awesome. :gj: I definitely wanna do more research about them because i wasn't even totally sure on all the different localities and percentages. It could be months before i get anything still, i just like to do lots of research. I've already been thinking about all of this for a months anyways, but i can be pretty patient haha.

Mike - you can never go wrong with a good boa, its basically a gateway drug into the larger constrictors. My BCI I purchased as a baby back in 2006 was my first larger constrictor after raising BP's for many years. Though I have been fascinated by reticulated pythons for many many years (since back in 1997 when I was a tiny kid seeing them, till I started my research on them in 2002 when Bob Clark wrote a great article in reptiles magazine), it took a long time for me to be able to get into them because of size restrictions with my family, money to be able to house and feed such a monster, and of course the knowledge to be able to keep them safely.

Right now Locales are the biggest thing you should concern yourself with during your research. One of my favorite papers from 2002 discussing the various aspects of different locales / subspecies is here: http://reticulatedpython.info/me/pap...ic%20paper.pdf Check it out if you have not already, its a wealth of scientific information, not just someone on the internet speaking their ideas. It's backed by real data, real papers, and true knowledge of a species.

Mr Lang spoke valid points from a standpoint of raising concern - its needed - but certain things have to be examined fully and not just on the negative spectrum! Hopefully I haven't insisted any insult to the matter, his points were definitely valid, though some quite misguided, still good to hear and see for someone who needs to hear the full position of the matter.

I have some time tomorrow, and need to find my big girl and boy some rabbits, so while I have them thawing out I can work with my male at least and talk a little about them and showing some size stuff and locale information. Right now I have Kalatoa Pure, Kalatoa cross, Kaydui cross, Jampea cross, Sasleyer cross (dwarf), and mainland. Each locale does something different to the pattern that I absolutely love. For instance, Jampea just makes Goldenchilds SCREAM. It's amazing!
http://reptileexperts.com/Godlen.jpg

Not to mention that the Jampea blood will keep this male GC on the smaller spectrum of things - should never exceed 9-10' in its lifetime.

Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2UF4WGzDFw

To make sure those who wanted to know see it. The video I started working on that night, Let's talk about super dwarfs . . .