How do I get my BP to drink without bathing him?

I know that I'm only supposed to bath him (Charlie) before he goes into shed but earlier today I went to the st. louis reptile show and handled a few of the ball pythons there and they were much smoother. When I petted them backwards their scales didn't //peal back?//
I know that it's common for this to happen before shedding, or at least this is what I've heard, but Charlie is often like this even after shedding. I'm pretty sure the scales pealing back when pet backwards is caused from dehydration/lack of humidity. The thing is, I spray his tank daily so I'm assuming that he isn't drinking enough.

Now about bathing. Charlie drinks more when he bathes than I have ever seen him drink in his enclosure and this is where I got the question from. I've seen ways to get snakes to drink, like that Viperkeeper on youtube that uses a water bottle. I'm just unsure of how to get him to drink without bathing him very often.


TL;DR: my BP is showing signs of dehydration and only drinks when I bathe him and I only do so before he goes into shed. I'm curious if there are any other ways to get him to drink. And yes, I have two water dishes in his enclosure.

Keep his water good and fresh-- change it once daily, or twice if it needs it. Also, I'd forgo the pre-shed bath, as it can wash away oils he needs to keep his sheds running smoothly. What is your general humidity reading? Husbandry check-- hot spot/cool side temps? When was his last shed? And lastly, what are you currently feeding him? Believe it or not, BPs get an awful lot of their water from their food intake, so his prey may need to be adjusted as needed.

I never see mine drink, they have big shoe box tubs for water bowls so they soak when needed an drink when needed.

You will rarely ever see them drink. I have only seen mine drink a handful of times. They drink plenty though, so don't worry. Do not soak them when they go into shed... simply raise the humidity to about 70%. The humidity otherwise should normally be about 50%.

What's with the whole bathing? I think that might be the cause. Too much moisture.

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

I know that I'm only supposed to bath him (Charlie) before he goes into shed .

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actually, No.
You really never should need to bath your snake ever. If they feel the need to soak they will.
Try and get your humidity up.

That was my thought as well. If the bathing is too frequent, those natural oils are getting washed away.

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Originally Posted by Archimedes

Keep his water good and fresh-- change it once daily, or twice if it needs it. Also, I'd forgo the pre-shed bath, as it can wash away oils he needs to keep his sheds running smoothly. What is your general humidity reading? Husbandry check-- hot spot/cool side temps? When was his last shed? And lastly, what are you currently feeding him? Believe it or not, BPs get an awful lot of their water from their food intake, so his prey may need to be adjusted as needed.

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the cool side is room temperature at the lowest so 74/75 degrees. The hot spot temperature is around 80 ( i was told not to use wall thermometer so I had to estimate). His last shed was around a month ago. I'm unsure about the humidity because I was told as well not to use a wall hydrometer because it is inaccurate and I don't know where to get an accurate one. Last time he ate (Wednesday) Charlie had two frozen thawed fuzzies. Recently, though, at the show earlier I was told to upgrade him to one frozen thawed mouse.

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

the cool side is room temperature at the lowest so 74/75 degrees. The hot spot temperature is around 80 ( i was told not to use wall thermometer so I had to estimate). His last shed was around a month ago. I'm unsure about the humidity because I was told as well not to use a wall hydrometer because it is inaccurate and I don't know where to get an accurate one. Last time he ate (Wednesday) Charlie had two frozen thawed fuzzies. Recently, though, at the show earlier I was told to upgrade him to one frozen thawed mouse.

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You need to get a digital thermometer.
The hot side should be warmer than that, closer to 90.
What are you using for heat and how are you regulating it?

alright, I never considered that, thanks

I don't even feed newborn ball pythons fuzzy mice. The smallest they ever get from me are hoppers and they get upgraded pretty quickly from those. You're hot spot is too cool, but make sure you're measuring it accurately before increasing the temps, too cool is better then too hot. One of those indoor/outdoor thermometers with the probe on a wire are usually pretty cheap. place the probe right on the floor where the heat is. A better choice is a temperature gun that will show you the temperature of the spot you're pointing it at. (like one of these - pe-2) The spot should be right around 90F though I personally prefer it a little cooler. Instead of bathing, I usually spray my tubs down with a hand held plant mister every so often, especially when I see them starting to turn blue.

I'm using a 100 watt red bulb and a heating pad, both are always on

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

I'm using a 100 watt red bulb and a heating pad, both are always on

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Is your pad regulated by a thermostat or at least a rheostat and reliable probe thermometer to read temps? If not, you should get one set up immediately. Your snake could end up badly burned otherwise. UTHs and heat tape are potentially very dangerous and you cannot trust them not to create dangerously high temperatures without something regulating their output.

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

a heating pad, both are always on

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and the rest of the answer to my question?? How are you controlling it?

alright, thank you for the advice

I think a big part of your problem is that your temps are significantly different than you think. You need, at a minimum, a thermometer like these:
http://firestormreptiles.com/weblog/...rmometers.html
And a thermostat:
http://firestormreptiles.com/weblog/...hermostat.html

I actually just moved the heating pad to his tank, I've been checking on him but so far, it had hardly changed the temperature
Yeah, I'll look into getting a thermostat either tomorrow or Tuesday when I can. I plugged in the heating pad maybe two hours ago??? and I've been monitoring the temperature with my hand to make sure it doesn't get too warm, but I think I'll just unplug it over night.

Definitely get the thermostat ASAP. Much cheaper than a vet bill. If you are going to spend less than $50, the Hydrofarm is your best bet.

as of around two hours ago (when I put the heating pad on his tank) I've been monitoring the temperature with my hand since I don't have a thermostat. I'll be unplugging the heating pad overnight to be safe and I will hopefully be able to buy a thermostat tomorrow.

Back to the questions of food

My newborn hatchling eat RAT PUPS....I didn't even know a ball would except a mouse fuzzy. I would try a rat weaner or a mouse for your next feeding. His scales might feel way loose because he is loosing weight. Just my two cents!

I feel stupid after posting this x-x but I've learned quite a bit that I didn't know/was doing wrong wowow

Measuring it with your hand is wrong. You absolutely need to have that under tank heater plugged into a thermostat. It will burn your snake. Even if you don't think it feels hot. You are a warm blooded mammal with a core temperature of 98 degrees so how is 100 degrees going to feel hot to your hand? It isn't.

The UTH must be controlled by a thermostat, and then the hot side and cool side must be monitored by a digital, probed thermometer..

Walmart sells a good one for around $13 dollars called the Accurite weather station. You put the entire thing in the tank. The unit on the cool side, and the probe directly on the glass, on the UTH, on the hot side. The screen will tell you both temps and the humidity at the same time. Please please read the care sheet on here and you'll learn everything you need to know about it.

There are many thermostats to choose from. The more expensive ones like Herpstat, Helix, or Ranco.. Then there is a cheaper one that is actually fairly good by Hydrofarm.

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

I feel stupid after posting this x-x but I've learned quite a bit that I didn't know/was doing wrong wowow

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Not stupid, just un-informed and lack of research;)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not stupid, just un-informed and lack of research;)

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Yes! Certainly not stupid! Stupid would have been ignoring the correct information once you came upon it. Which you're not doing :gj:

Here is some good information on this site:

Yes its for a tub setup, but the glass tank setup wont vary too much. You will at least get the idea where to place the thermoSTAT and thermoMETER probes.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*

And here are some FAQs, they will help you out with some of the basic questions you might have, or something you never thought about.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Husbandry-FAQs

I would make sure you unplug the heat pad till you can get a thermostat. You can even go to any home improvement store and get a lamp dimmer for it as a temporary solution. And you will still have to monitor the temps with a digital thermometer.
Like previously stated the accurite from Walmart is cheap.

Im also concerned with that 100w heat lamp I think you mihht have it way too hot in that tank and its sucking the humidity out and causing him to be dehydrated.


1.0 Ball Pythons(Twizzler)
1.0 Cat (Loki)

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Originally Posted by Wapadi

Back to the questions of food

My newborn hatchling eat RAT PUPS....I didn't even know a ball would except a mouse fuzzy. I would try a rat weaner or a mouse for your next feeding. His scales might feel way loose because he is loosing weight. Just my two cents!

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Wow you must have way different ideas of what rat pups are than I do. Aren't rat pups usually considered about 20 grams? How could a neonate handle a pup?

I think if somebody suggested a mouse, then a rat pup would also be sufficient.

The lamp doesn't do much to the temperature I'm assuming because it's around two feet from the substrate (the tank is a 55 gallon so it's rather tall and the lamp is propped up a couple inches from the lid to prevent it from possibly melting the plastic on the sides.) The way that the hot spot is at the temperature that it is is because a rock in the enclosure absorbs the heat from the lamp.

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

Wow you must have way different ideas of what rat pups are than I do. Aren't rat pups usually considered about 20 grams? How could a neonate handle a pup?

I think if somebody suggested a mouse, then a rat pup would also be sufficient.

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It depends on the size of the hatchling. I've had 82g (out of the egg) hatchlings take a small pup as their first meal. However, I'd go closer to a rat fuzzy for the ones that hatch ~55g. This is why digital scales are so important.

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

The lamp doesn't do much to the temperature I'm assuming because it's around two feet from the substrate (the tank is a 55 gallon so it's rather tall and the lamp is propped up a couple inches from the lid to prevent it from possibly melting the plastic on the sides.) The way that the hot spot is at the temperature that it is is because a rock in the enclosure absorbs the heat from the lamp.

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in a 55 you are oing to have a ton of problems trying to hold heat and humidity, I started that way and it was a lot of work.
do yourself a favor and either get a 20 gallon tank or a 28qt tub.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

in a 55 you are oing to have a ton of problems trying to hold heat and humidity, I started that way and it was a lot of work.
do yourself a favor and either get a 20 gallon tank or a 28qt tub.

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See the reason I didn't want to down-grade the tank size was because I had already moved him from a 29 gallon. When the neighbors moved out, they gave me a 55 gallon. My mom wanted me to move it into my room and to transfer Charlie into it so I did and I don't really know how well it will be to transfer him back. I was also planing on upgrading my corn snake to that tank when she's ready. Also the fact that I have no place to hang a light from where that tank is currently located because a mirror is behind it and I can't really afford to move all of my tanks around because I have them in a specific location. So if I were to move the 29 gallon to where the 55 is then I'd have no place to put the 55 and I can't really take it downstairs because it's so large. This is kinda why my mom wanted me to put the 55 gallon in my room as soon as it was brought over. Hopefully you get what I'm saying? I'm not trying to sound lazy or anything, it would just be a hassle and stressful on the snakes. I could look into transferring him to a 28qt. tub for the meantime, until he gets large enough, but the only storage container that I have is the one that I feed them/bathe them in so I'd have to buy one.

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Originally Posted by thecrazyandinsane

I could look into transferring him to a 28qt. tub for the meantime, until he gets large enough, but the only storage container that I have is the one that I feed them/bathe them in so I'd have to buy one.

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he will never be large enough for a 55g tank ;)

turns out I was wrong on the temperatures, I had gotten a temperature gun today so I checked the temperature in both Charlie's (BP) and Bailey (corn snake) and Charlie's hot spot was around 85 and the cold side was 79 degrees. The temperatures for Bailey's tank were inaccurate due to the fact that I had the light turned off for maybe 5-10 minutes while i was cleaning her cage/spraying/changing the water and I will check it again in a little while. I re-plugged in the heating pad for Charlie's tank and I've been monitoring the temperature. Last time I checked, the hot spot was 87 degrees. Thank you guys so much for the help, I appreciate it a lot, I just wish I had gotten an account on here sooner.

Don't worry;a lot of us are new here to the world of snakes too; don't ever be afraid to as questions because you think they sound stupid. I've been a snake owner for only a out 2 months myself, but have already learned a lot from the week I've spent here on the forum.

From what I can tell, heat lamps tend to raise the ambient air temperature but not really the substrate temp. This will especially be the case if you have a taller tank; is just physics.

Under tank heaters (UTHs) heat the substrate to create a hot spot, but don't necessarily do a lot for the ambient temperature. The problem with UTHs is that they aren't calibrated well; why should they be...most people aren't really that interested in taking that great care of their animals (since you are here, you obviously do not fall into this category). Other members of this forum have done tests that have found unregulated UTH temperatures in excess of 120 F!!

Therefore the best way to ensure you don't have roasted Regius is to use a thermostat. The aforementioned Hydrofarm thermostat has a good reputation; it's cheap and reliable. Mine just came from Amazon today ($32.00+shipping). The probe goes between the UTH and the bottom of the tank (more on that in a minute) and the heat pad then plugs into the thermostat, which plugs into the wall. I peeled the paper back to reveal the adhesive on my UTH, and then used foil tape (not duct tape but metal foil tape) sticky-side-to-sticky-side to cover it up. I then am using smaller pieces of foil tape to adhere it to the tank, that way it is more easily removed if needed. This will also make it easier to replace the thermostat if it malfunctions.

The other item you need is a digital thermometer/hygrometer combo. Mthe analog models sold at most pet shops are usually not properly calibrated, and even small temperature deviations can be important for a ball. I bought (at the forum's suggestion) the Acurite 00891 model. It is $12.99 at Walmart (check online to see if yours carrys it first) and has a 10' remote cable. The remote cable end is affixed to the bottom of the tank inside the tank above the center of the UTH. The main body is mounted on the opposite side where it will be easy to read. The display will show the cold end temp (as indoor temperature), the hot side temp (as outdoor temperature) and the relative humidity.

Based on the results you get off the digital thermometer, the proper adjustments can be more accurately diagnosed.

TL; DR—I apologize for the length, but felt it was necessary to sum up the previous few pages from the standpoint of a fellow person who was initially overwhelmed by the vast inflow of knowledge coming from the forum (I kinda felt like a dummy too after my first few posts). It wasn't until someone explained things slowly that I began to gain confidence. Hang in there; all will become fine