Special needs baby.

Hey again everyone. I got another special one. After I get everyone eating, I go and get another special baby. I've dubbed her Inferno, and she's approx 1150g. She's eaten 2x for me, no problems, and is about to go into shed. Sounds perfect right? Not so much. She's got several layers of retained cap on her right eye. Day 1, I was able to get 2 layers off, no problems. She's got a great temperment (I wouldn't be so nice about my eyes being touched). I've been spraying her eye daily, sometimes 2x daily with shedding aid, then letting it dry before putting her back in her tank. Yes, I do rub it very lightly with the pad of my thumb.

I noticed a couple of days ago that it's looking.. sunken, or flat. Her left eye is perfect, round, shiney and healthy. Her right eye, not so much. (Pics incoming.) She's starting to go blue, so I know more, or have a more well informed opinion in a week-two weeks. I know it's going to be a rough shed simply because her underside is.. well.. it looks like she's got a bit of scale rot in a couple of places, as well as some skin "flaking" off. Almost like it's shedding, but only on a few scales, in a few areas. (It may just be formerly stuck shed coming off due to proper humidity/shedding aid, I can't say for sure.)

Here's my question. If she is, in fact, in the process of losing that eye, what can I do about it? I called the vet, and they said to put her down. I very politely told them to bite me. The closest place I can find that has a decent, not a good, but a decent herp vet is over 2 hours away. I can either make the trip, or pay for the vet, I don't have the money for both. So I'm turning to you guys. Obviously, I'm not putting her down over a bum eye.

I've dealt with retained caps before, but nothing like this. Now for the pic(s).

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/...psfe1340dc.jpg

I know it's not the best res photo, however all I have is my camera phone. What you can barely see is right above her eye, it's almost like scales are growing down over the eye. Also. She's got a.. brown-ish scab-like texture on the lower portion of her eye. As I said before, She's getting ready to shed, so I'll know more as soon as she does and will keep ya'll informed.

Any ideas, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

(She's in a 55gal long w/ a custom top. Typically sitting at 82-86, depending on where she is in her enclosure. she's got a wooden hide, aspen substrate, a log, water bowl and her moss. On the days I don't spray her moss, it's about 50% humidity, when I do it jumps to about 70%. Also, she's on sm live rats, atm. )

Honestly, I've heard wonderful stories of BPs getting along just fine while half-blind or fully blind. They have such wonderful senses of smell that it doesn't much affect their feeding response, just their accuracy, and fortunately in a captive environment it's easy to control where prey goes (or if it goes at all, depending on your personal feeder preference! :D ). Her heat pits will also help her navigate, as well, so even if she does lose her eye, she'll live a perfectly good life. As for making her comfortable while she's in the process, I know less, but hopefully someone with experience can chime in! She's lovely despite her special needs. :)

If she intact goes blind in that bad eye, don't worry about it. Eyeless BPs do fine without sight. As mentioned before, they can feed and thrive fine just with their heat pits and sense of smell.

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I've been doing my research and it isn't really a matter of how it will effect her, I know she'll do just fine. (I'll make sure of it) It's more.. helping her along, and the best at home treatment for it. I may be doing the best thing with the shedding aid, soaks and gentle eye rubbing, but I want to make sure. I'm always a bit.. paranoid about my babies.

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Originally Posted by NinjaKittyz

I'm always a bit.. paranoid about my babies.

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I'm the same way, trust me. =] I freak whenever Magnus gets a mouthful of substrate during a feed. It's never a good feeling to think your baby might be uncomfortable. It sounds like you're doing everything right, though, just keep that humidity up and see where the issues with the retained caps go. Either she'll keep the eye or she won't.

Did you do a responsiveness test? Basically a matter of hitting the pupil with a flashlight beam or something to see if it dilates and contracts.

I rescued a little female who is now blind in one eye. She eats just fine.

Make sure to bump the humidity A LOT. Retained eyecaps and not enough humidity is what caused her issues.

Here is when I brought her home and she was in blue:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/18/etutesa4.jpg

Full shed:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/18/te9eguvu.jpg

Any other time her eyes look normal, although the blind eye is a bit smaller and flatter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NinjaKittyz

I've been doing my research and it isn't really a matter of how it will effect her, I know she'll do just fine. (I'll make sure of it) It's more.. helping her along, and the best at home treatment for it. I may be doing the best thing with the shedding aid, soaks and gentle eye rubbing, but I want to make sure. I'm always a bit.. paranoid about my babies.

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Just leave the eye alone. Don't touch it or soak her. This can mess up her next shed. Just bump your humidity up and wait for her next shed.

Messing with an eye cap can permanently damage the eye if its not already damaged.

Keep her enclosure sterile and hospital clean.
And after her shed, we'll see how the eye is then to make further assessment.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Just leave the eye alone. Don't touch it or soak her. This can mess up her next shed. Just bump your humidity up and wait for her next shed.

Messing with an eye cap can permanently damage the eye if its not already damaged.

Keep her enclosure sterile and hospital clean.
And after her shed, we'll see how the eye is then to make further assessment.

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x2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Archimedes

Did you do a responsiveness test? Basically a matter of hitting the pupil with a flashlight beam or something to see if it dilates and contracts.

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I haven't, I honestly hadn't even thought about it really. Given how many layers of retained caps she has, I wasn't sure anything "could" get through them. I'll give it a try tomorrow. She's already had her treatments for the day so I'd rather not harass her further.

@ satomi325 The reason I'd been soaking her (every other day) was for the scale rot. It's hard to tell which to treat first. While I don't want her eye getting worse, I don't want the scale rot getting worse either. :/

I don't think soaking scale rot is a good idea either.

Scale rot is caused by filth and moisture. Keep her clean and her belly dry as possible. Use relative humidity to help her shed and we'll see where she is after that.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I don't think soaking scale rot is a good idea either.

Scale rot is caused by filth and moisture. Keep her clean and her belly dry as possible. Use relative humidity to help her shed and we'll see where she is after that.

Gale

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I should have added it's a medicated soak; After talking to my reptiles group, she's been getting soaked in a chlorhexidine/water soak. I always take care to dry her after, so she's not sitting in anything.

Also, if it is scale rot, she should be going to the vet. If you didn't have the money to take her, why did you even get her?

The OP said his close vet is a douche and the next one is 2 hours away. He's just checking what he can do himself before taking work off for 4 hours round trip *plus* paying the vet and spending the gas money. It sounds like he's helped many balls before and is just bouncing it off you guys for ideas. I get the impression if the snake really needed to go to the vet, it would go.

She says she can't afford the trip and the vet visit.

If you have snakes, you should be aware of which vets are knowledgable about herps. The only reptile vet near me is over an hours drive.

If she couldn't afford to take it to the vet, or make the trip, she shouldn't have gotten the new snake.

She says it's belly is flaking, which means its probably not just a mild case. From what I've read, this snake will most likely need antibiotics.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Also, if it is scale rot, she should be going to the vet. If you didn't have the money to take her, why did you even get her?

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I've never heard of anyone, aside from those those take an animal to a vet for a retained cap, or a dog that's throwing up, (aka. something minor), taking a Bp, or any snake, to a vet for Scale rot. It's easily treated at home, I realize, everyone has their way of doing things.

As for why I took her, the guy who had her? Was going to throw her into a zip lock bag, and in to the freezer over night.

Why I'd rather not go to the vet, It's a 5 hour round trip drive. Add in child care, taking off a day from work, gas and the vet bill, and it's close to $500. I don't know anyone who has a spare $500 lying around.

Not trying to be persnickity, but I don't like feeling attacked when I ask for advice or tips from people who, possibly, know better than I. Think I'm going to stick to my other groups, rather than feel attacked.

For those that were trying to help, and not be.. snippy. Thanks for the advice. If you'd like an update, Feel free to message me and I'll update you.

This is why you have a set amount of money sitting aside for when things like this happen. I have more than enough in my savings for emergency vet care.

You say that the scale rot is causing flaking. That usually means it's a more severe case. Mild cases of scale rot can be treated at home with Betadine soaks, strict cleaning regimens and non-medicated polysporin. More severe cases will require antibiotics.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...d-of-scale-rot
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...elly-scale-rot

As angllady2 said, keep her dry.
Even if you keep soaking your snake for scale rot, you're ruining her next shed.
By soaking her, you're washing away the essential oils that is used as lubricant between the old skin and new skin. If you keep soaking her, her next shed will come off in multiple pieces rather than one whole piece.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

She says it's belly is flaking, which means its probably not just a mild case. From what I've read, this snake will most likely need antibiotics.

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Nah. No antibiotics needed.
I'm going to assume it's just a little crusty around the edge of some scales. That is very very minor scale rot. It will go away with the next shed.

Can we see some pictures of the scale rot in question?

Lol Satomi I just said if its a mild case, Betadine soaks should be fine.

I would hold off on the betadine till she sheds, which doesn't sound that far away.

The whole point is to have her shed in one piece to see if the eye cap and scale rot come off. After that we can reevaluate everything and give further advice accordingly.

Op: please stick around. I hope you update this thread. We really want to help you and this girl.

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As requested, I'm updating the post. Inferno shed last night.

She's been getting daily rubs w/ shedding aid for the last 3 days. As well as the daily spray to her eye w/ shedding aid. I've kept her humidity a bit higher than I normally do, right around 65-70%, temp has been 80-86 (Depending on time of day and room temp.) The majority of the enclosure has aspen substrate, and approx 8-10" of one side is damp moss.

At about midnight last night, I was double checking everyone ( We had a major storm last night and were in a Tornado alert, so I had pillow cases on the ready in case we needed to make a quick get away.) Noticed she was shedding and watched for a bit, She got her belly shed off nicely, and the scale rot looks to be mostly gone. One small spot (The worst of it) remains, plan on keeping an eye on it, and dropping humidity down. Already replaced the moss w/ a less damp 'bunch' of it. So nice, clean white belly. Her topside, despite the raised humidity, shedding aid and soaks, was being a pain. So I did what I've done for other rough shedders. Picked her up, and helped her along, running my thumbs down her topside, easing the shed along, getting them wet now and then. It took a while, and some spots were a lot thickers than others, but it all came off.

Now, for the amazing part. You all know the reason I initally posted was because of her eye. Several layers of retained cap, the eye was 'flat' and smaller than her other eye. Well. She had a nice head shed, the left eye cap came of just fine. Her right eye cap.. It was a giant.. callus. Thats the only word I can really use. (The pics will speak for themselves.) Her eye looks so much better, it looks like there's still a layer of retained cap, which is a lot better than I was expecting, honestly. I was 'sure' she'd lost that eye, that it had died under the retained caps, and that she was going to be blind in it.

While I'm not sure about her sight in it yet. She's still got her eye and it looks really good, considering. She's still not responding to things moving infront of her right eye, not how she does with her left, so I'm still wondering about the possibilty of lost sight, or partial lost sight in that eye, only time will tell.

All in all, She looks good. It's simply amazing what poor husbandry can do to an animal, just as it's amazing what good husbandry can do. Now, I know there are things I could have done differently, No one is going to agree on what should be done. I did as I felt best, and went with my gut, and took into consideration the knowledge, tips and information given to me by those who know more/better. So thank you all for that.

Now. On to the pics! (I know. TLDR.)


So you don't have to scroll... The Before Pictures..

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/100710/...dwqhmDwJtz.jpg

You can clearly see the retained caps, as well as a bit of.. scar-scales along the top of her eye.

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/...psdc8141ee.jpg

She looks normal! No scar-scales, no lost of her eye. I'm really pleased with the outcome. I couldn't have hoped for better.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/100710/...bG1wGteGIK.jpg

This is her head shed. You can clearly see where the eye cap is. It felt like a thick callus when I touched it. Also. The tip, where her nose is, it felt almost the same which leads me to believe that she had retained shed on her nose as well.

And just cause.. a partial body shot after shedding.

http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/...psefee8426.jpg


Once again, Thanks for everything!
:banana::banana::banana:

Fantastic! I would stop your treatments now, since it looks like she might have gotten all of the retained caps off. If there's one remaining, leaving it is less of a risk than it is to try to "remove" if it actually isn't retained. Just monitor her next shed and keep her humidity up and her substrate fairly dry (for the last remnant of scale rot to go away).

I'm not planning on doing anything more, treatment, wise with her. Mostly just keeping an eye on the belly spot, and keeping humidity stable. She already ate, so she's a happy camper. Have to admit, I've been grinning all day about her eye.

I know some people will try and remove a retained cap, I'm not one of those. I've heard of using tape, and tweezers and scratching at it... The only retained cap I pulled off of her was already loose, and broken, it had a split down the middle that I gently rubbed off. If she does have another layer, it should come off with the next shed.

Awesome! That is so good to hear. Sounds like everything is looking up for her. :)

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Yay! Congratulations on a job well done. The before and after shots are startlingly different.

A word about snakes (pets) and finances (forgive me if I sound defensive): I don't have a lot of money. None, actually- about $160/month for food, gas, etc after bills. But I was given a free snake. I came on here to find out about optimal care to keep her healthy. I spent the money to get her husbandry right, even tho it wiped out my carefully hoarded reserves. She eats before I do. If she were to get sick, I would come on here to get as much advice as possible and treat her as best I could before resorting to a vet visit I can't afford. But if she absolutely needed a vet, I would find the money somehow (car payment can wait...). I've really really REALLY wanted a BRB for years, and one showed up on craigslist for only $50 while I was looking for stuff for Pandora- and I didn't get it because I decided I couldn't afford it while I was still getting Pandora set up. And now that she's set up, I still can't afford to set up another snake so I won't be getting one.
BUT: If I came across a snake that was in super bad shape and the owner was planning to throw it in the freezer- I'd have her home in a heartbeat. Regardless of finances. I couldn't in good conscience do otherwise. I don't consider that irresponsible or harmful, and I would do my best with what I had- as the OP clearly did.

You saved a life!!! Congratulations!

Andy-:snake:

I was watching this thread and I'm so happy to hear and see she is doing much better. :) Hope she continues to do well for you and it was awesome of you to save her from neglect and death.

You have nothing to be sorry for. You saved a life and he seems to be recovering just fine. So if someone does not have a helpful solution to a problem they should stay out of the conversation. Again you did what most normal animal lovers would have done thanks. :gj: