Sub-Saharan ball python help!

I have a source that can get wild caught sub Saharan females that are gravid. My question is how do these genes work? Is it all babies would be SS? Also the one he kept had 13 eggs so it sounds like they are true. Any info would help. Thanks!!

They should/would have all laid their eggs in the wild by now...so if you were to get a gravid one, it would likely be November-January.

I picked one up last November, too, and I wonder about the genetics, too. What do you mean: "SS"?

Mine laid 10, with 3 being slugs, and 1 died within a week of being laid. I have 4.2 babies, and I'm hoping to see that they grow quickly compared to others. I don't know if the size passes to each baby, or if it's more like a codom type gene. They are definitely great eaters, though.

In any case, I look forward to having a 7' - 8' ball python! The mother is 6'.

SS= sub Saharan... I too am definitely interested about the genetics

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Originally Posted by stoaob3

SS= sub Saharan... I too am definitely interested about the genetics

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Correct! ;)
I would think if you breed a normal size ball to a SS then it would only be 50% SS.

genetically they are just a sample of the wild population of normals that is out there in ghana, benin, and so on.

fresh genes from the large natural gene pool of many millions of individuals. Thats how it works genetically. Typically just a normal.

They are good to fight inbreeding, sometimes you get improved size and health sometimes you dont. If you breed one of these to lets say a bee or whatever, offspring will have 50% Ghana genetics, or sub-saharan or however you call it. and if you breed these to something else, you can still say the offspring contains 25% fresh african genetics, and so on. And thats pretty much the point of it all, give the local gene pool that may be heavily affected by decades of breeding in captivity an infusion against inbreeding and for better health. But then it also happens automatically because tens of thousands of normal hatchlings are exported for the pet shops.

More interesting are the ones coming from africa that look like they have something going on genetically, like a possible morph. The dinkers out of africa, unproven stuff thats possibly a new morph and possibly nothing.

Ball pythons do not get 6 or 7 feet. 4 to 5 feet. Any ball python can have a 13 or even 17 egg clutches. Sub Saharan is the wrong term as all ball pythons come from rhe saub sahara. The suposed "giants" are from the Volta range in Ghana. We are of a mind that they are no different than any other ball pythons. The region that they come from is less farmed for balls partly because of the difficult terrain. We have a few girls that are over 4000g and even one who is over 5000g.

I own a 'sub Saharan' although TessadasExotics is 100% correct they are all 'subs'. I think you are simplifying the genetics mine has been breed many times and she does not have very many off spring that show the overly large head size. It leads me to believe the trait is recessive certainly not dominate.

I own a "Subsaharan", too. I didn't name them, but that's what they're being referred to as. I originally thought they were called Volta giants or Volta WC. Subsaharan is just the name designated... just like a certain yellow/black ball python got the name "pastel", even though it didn't necessarily consist of only pastel type colors.

My "Subsaharan" is every bit of 6' long, too. I hope she grows longer. Time will tell.

Many years ago (back when the "big" show was at Orlando) a friend of mine attended a BBQ at Tom Crutchfields and claimed he had an 8ft "burm sized" ball python at the time. Don't know where it came from or what happened to it.

Mine is not 6 foot but she is very close 5'8 maybe 9" she is 3850 gm as of last shed last week.

Maybe it's just the result of letting a bp grow out naturally in an open environment over many years? I don't think there are that many 15 year old captive hatched normals in the trade. Maybe after many years of growing, some of which without laying eggs, ball pythons just get to the '6-7 feet' that all the wildlife fact descriptions say they can and all the hobbyists say they can't based on their own anecdotal evidence?

I am unfamiliar with sub Saharan. do they just get bigger or is there some other reason to collect one? How is it any different than any other wild caught bp?

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Originally Posted by scooter11

I am unfamiliar with sub Saharan. do they just get bigger or is there some other reason to collect one? How is it any different than any other wild caught bp?

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They seem to be bigger and have large clutch sizes. Also I have a 10 year old female and she is big, around 5'8" but I don't think she compares to some others.

Yeah my Volta girl is just shy of 6ft as well.

The easiest way to tell the difference between a normal from the other localities vs. one from the northern Volta Region is head size. It is hard to capture in pictures but in person it is quite obvious that there is a difference even with smaller animals 1000-2800g. So yeah, they are just large normals and they grow larger then the other localities. They also are rumoured to grow at a faster rate then other localities, usually when most female normals hit 1000g these are 1300-1800g. However, they are sexually mature at the same time rate. They typically throw clutches over 10 eggs even when they are younger. My girl was 3200g gravid and had 11 fertile eggs. Now that she has laid, it looks like her standing weight was right around 2400g. I do understand that other localities can put these numbers out when they are that size though, it just isn't as common. The genetics seem to be a polygenetic thing, so we will have to linebreed to keep the Volta genetics in our designer mutations but in theory you can create designer mutations which have more size and higher egg production. Meaning eventually you'd be able to have better odds of hitting new mutations, like we see with other pythons like retics.

Pictures or it isn't true! :P I will have to pull our "Volta" girls, some of our large girls and a young girl to take comparison pics, weight, length and head size. I have never measured any of ours, but I doubt they are over 5'. I have never seen a ball python anywhere near 6'.

http://images20.fotki.com/v355/photo...uno0144-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

Very big head.


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Originally Posted by MrLang

Maybe it's just the result of letting a bp grow out naturally in an open environment over many years? I don't think there are that many 15 year old captive hatched normals in the trade. Maybe after many years of growing, some of which without laying eggs, ball pythons just get to the '6-7 feet' that all the wildlife fact descriptions say they can and all the hobbyists say they can't based on their own anecdotal evidence?

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You should check out google images sometime. Most of those pics would be quite difficult to shop.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Mine is not 6 foot but she is very close 5'8 maybe 9" she is 3850 gm as of last shed last week.

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That would be a very skinny ball python. I have a female that is 5'1'' and she was 4830 at time of ovulation, I also have a het ghost that is 3900g that is shorter than 5'1''. Any ways there is a breeder in flagstaff that him and i will be doing some trades for his volta with my larger ghana babies. I also have a lesser from my female that is about 2500g and got well over 1900g in 18 months. Here is a picture (not my pic) of a volta owned by carlos rojas http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...ps79ed956b.jpg

This is my smaller het ghost that is 3900g, it would be interesting to see a bp that was 5'9 inches and only 3800g
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...ps1da99595.jpg
and my big girl in a cb 70 for a size reference
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...ps4a0195a8.jpg

not to bore you all with more pics, but here is the first time she bred. I paired her with a 750g lesser and she pretty much man handled him and forced him to lock lol
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...dlesser003.jpg

From what Ive heard from a friend of ours who chats with Ian at Outback reptiles, Subsharans are a locality normal, in which a small group of animals if significantly larger than most others. basically just huge normal that produce large clutches and/or large hatchlings. Don't know if its genetically larger size tho...

She is shedding now so once she is done I'll post a pic she is about as big around as a pop can maybe a bit bigger.

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

not to bore you all with more pics, but here is the first time she bred. I paired her with a 750g lesser and she pretty much man handled him and forced him to lock lol
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...dlesser003.jpg

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Nice! Poor little guy looks a little overwhelmed!

Sorry to bump this thread...I was wondering if any one had any current pics?

Current pics of what? You can check out some pics of our Subsaharan girl by clicking our facebook link in my signature. She is still re-couping her weight because she would only eat ASFs and I did not have a good supply. I am guessing she should be around 4200g but currently she is 2900g and she laid 11 eggs in Feb 2013.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

She is still re-couping her weight because she would only eat ASFs and I did not have a good supply.

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It's a bit far to drive from Manassas, but Naked Acres in Martinsburg, WV has ASF if you can't find any closer. I have one BP stuck on live ASF. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

It's a bit far to drive from Manassas, but Naked Acres in Martinsburg, WV has ASF if you can't find any closer. I have one BP stuck on live ASF. :rolleyes:

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Yeah Paul is a good dude. We are actually located in Nanjemoy Maryland now so its like a 2:30 hour drive one way to Pauls place. We were making that trip for several months every other week just for her. Then we got a new apartment down here and now ive got my own colony. So shes gaining weight back now but her pre-lay weight was 3600g. My holdbacks from the original trio of ASFs are now preggo so hopefully soon 50% of my BPs will have ASFs on a regular. I cant wait to really start putting weight on my girl, she looks so much better now then she did.

LOL figures you'd know Paul, I think everyone does!

Well, since this thread was resurrected from the dead, I'm going to point this out real quick.
Sub-Saharan balls, correctly known as Volta locality ball pythons, are a locality-type ball python (not a morph) that are simply known for growing bigger and laying more eggs because of it. They're basically like the dwarf retics or dwarf boas, in which they are animals from a population in a certain area that simply effects what size the animal gets, only unlike dwarf retics, Volta balls are actually bigger. These kinds of traits are typically polygenic, and offspring from crosses will usually meet halfway between the two. (Think 50% dwarf retics, except these would be 50% Volta balls.)

Who knows, maybe the typical balls we originally got and breed today are actually the dwarf local and the Voltas are the "normal" sized ones. lol

Yep Pythonminion is correct, the genes for larger snakes are polygenetic. There has been rumours about it being monogenetic but I haven't seen any real solid proof on that. Larger BPs tend to not be as marketable as smaller retics though from my experience, or as useful due to the morph "wars" that go on with BPs.

But them you have people like me who would love a bigger BP. Do the males also get considerably larger? Or just the females?

Males and females get bigger than regular male and female bp's.

Yeah they do get larger, and males can spread the genes wider then the females can. Any Subsaharan to captive stock is going to be 50% subsaharan. We don't know how big those will get yet.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Yep Pythonminion is correct, the genes for larger snakes are polygenetic. There has been rumours about it being monogenetic but I haven't seen any real solid proof on that. Larger BPs tend to not be as marketable as smaller retics though from my experience, or as useful due to the morph "wars" that go on with BPs.

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Yeah, I don't think they've gotten the attention they deserve and some people haven't had the chance of knowing about them yet. It was a long time, probably a year after I had gotten my first BP, before I even heard of them. That said, I'm like WarriorPrincess in that I've always wanted a giant BP and I'm always hoping mine get big.
Anyway, rumor has it that the largest on record was something like 8 foot long. (Geez an 8 foot ball python...) My money is on the one Tom Crutchfield owns, as not only is Tom a legend in the hobby, but because that sounds to be appropriately the size of a small Burmese. I'd definitely being breeding that sucker, that's for sure. If all ball pythons were around that size, my mind would probably stop thinking of them as the toys or goldfish of reptiles. And I wouldn't want an African rock python any more. lol

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Yeah they do get larger, and males can spread the genes wider then the females can. Any Subsaharan to captive stock is going to be 50% subsaharan. We don't know how big those will get yet.

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No, it's going to be 100% Sub-Saharan because all ball pythons originate from Sub-Sahara Africa. :rolleyes:

I see this thread is very old, I found it wile searching for Sub Saharan/Voltas to purchase. I acquired one of these beauties in January and would like to get a few more. The importer I got mine from will not have anymore until late this year early next year. I only purchased one female as I had never used this guy before and wanted to make sure he was selling what he claimed. I really need an adult male as soon as possible and would like a few more females.

I had researched this bloodline and found out the most likely reason for their size. Is a process nature puts into place called gigantism. It happens when a gene pool becomes isolated as these snakes are in the Volta mountains.

If anyone knows of a breeder working with them please let me know.

Thanks Big Daddy

In case anyone is interested here is a photo of my SS/Volta female
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/webki...1588/imagejpeg

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Originally Posted by BigDaddySnake

If anyone knows of a breeder working with them please let me know.

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This ad has been up forever so he may still have one or two: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=498663

Thank you for the link! I contacted them and they still had one. I should recive him next week.