Same pairing, 2 clutches, 12 eggs, one spider

The parents... spider sire, normal dam
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...moose003-1.jpg

Clutch #1 - 7 eggs (originally 8, one died during early development) 7 normals
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...2/101_0415.jpg

Clutch #2 - 5 eggs, 4 normals, 1 spider
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...SCN1820fff.jpg

Just a reminder that, although the odds are typically 50% with a pairing like this, it doesn't mean that the clutch is guaranteed to be half spider and half normal, that the 50% refers to each egg as an individual. Seems I either have very bad luck, or something else happened. Female was guaranteed never bred to another male. Someone suggested that she is a "super normal", a baby from a normal x normal pairing, and that's why she threw all normals except for one, but I do not know her history. I do know that the spider came from a spider x normal pairing.

Any input?

Wow, I'm sorry :( at least you produced some babies! :/ maybe it was the sire? Anything to do with his sperm not being as strong? Sorry I don't know the proper terminology

I have never heard of "super normals" before, sounds like superstition to me...

Genetics are just odds, and in the long run, things will work out :)

Congrats on the 2 clutches!

Just bad luck I think.
Last year I had my spider male with my female, and we only got 1 spider out of 5 eggs. This year same female was with my lesser male and I got 4 lessers and 3 normals out of 7 eggs, so way better odds this year :).
And I suppose there is nothing wrong with spider gene, because many people get normal ratio clutches from spiders :).

Yeah the only thing bad sperm plugs would do is make her lay infertile eggs or none at all. Its odds, you get what you get and you try to make the best out of it! Also, there is no such thing as a "super normal" otherwise thousands of them would exist and this would not be the first we have heard of it. Great looking animals, regardless the odds you got, hope you have better luck next year!! Also, may I ask what day you cut the eggs?

Ball Pythons
0.2 Normals (Coilette and Mary Jane)
1.0 Spider Morph (Zeus)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)

Boas
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 Hog Island BCI (Kiyoko)
0.1 Dumerils Boa (Gloria)
0.1 Yellow Anaconda (Serenity)

Ouch! :(

Super Normal... LOL that's a good one. :O I think I'll use that as an excuse next time I have bad odds.

Sorry about the spiders, that blows but that's just the way it happens. You're just as likely to get all spiders in the next clutch and I hope you do. Better luck in the future.

Yep, that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Since any percentage statistic is per egg, in any given clutch you could have all morphs, no morphs, or anything in between.

However, seeing things like this makes you appreciate just how much dedication it takes to try and produce something that has 1:16 odds, or 1:32 odds. I've even seen 1:64 odds or greater! Seeing these clutches makes you understand why some of these animals carry such big price tags. Just think, if out of every 12 eggs from a spider to whatever breeding only one spider ever hatched no matter what, spiders would be a lot more expensive than they are. Or what if out of every 32 eggs from a pied to het pairing only one pied ever hatched? Even more than that, what if out of a het ghost to het ghost pairing out of 100 eggs only one ghost ever hatched?

I have a lot of respect for breeders who try for such long odds, and I understand why when they hit those odds, the babies are worth a great deal more than most.

Gale

Wow this is very interesting... I have seen a few posts and videos with Spider x Normal pairings... and almost the same results the OP has had. On the other hand, if the Spider was Female, its almost like the odds were switched and almost all the babies were Spiders. My female Spider usually never gives me normals... weird how the males do though, just based off of what people are posting up that is...

Super Normal? I guess ALL Normals are technically Super Normals. Maybe we can double the price on them :P.

It would be interesting to see if there is a difference over the long run of whether the Spider is the male or female in the pairing. THis is the first I have heard of any issues?

Also could be that we only really hear about the Spider clutches that bomb on odds (or the opposite) the other 99% go under the radar. Who knows?

TO the OP, those odds are lame but at least you for a awesome hatch rate and healthy babies!

Thanks for the input, everyone. My reaction to the "super normal" thing was about the same as everyone else here, lol. Bad luck indeed. I do have a female pastel bred to a different male spider due to lay in 25 days, hopefully odds will be in my favor with that one.

Hypnotix, the first clutch I cut on day 54 because one was already pipped. They all came out within 48 hours. Today is day 58 for the second clutch and I just cut them today.

It's all just luck. Our Spider male has sired clutches that had all Spiders, clutches that had no Spiders, and everything in between. It also doesn't matter if the Spider is the male or the female in the pairing....

I'll try and make you feel a little better...


A few years ago, i put 3 single gene males (Pin, Spider, Lesser) across 3 Normal females

Out of a total of 24 eggs laid, i got........... 1 Pin, 23 Normals


Generally, odds DO even, so you should be in for some good ones

Just so that you know, you had only a 0.3% chance of hatching only 1 spider in 12 eggs (12*.5¹²), so... you hit the (unlucky) jackpot! You have the same odds of hatching 11 spiders and 1 normal :P. Unfortunately its a risk you take when you deal with probabilities when breeding--its almost like gambling

I would say you did a great job in breeding them, got the babies all hatched (just 1 fertality) still awesome. Congrats ! Just the odds king is not that kind this round. :gj:

Man that really stinks!

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I am also grateful to have hatched two healthy clutches with no issues besides the one that died very early on.

My first and only spider hatched out last night. I'm no good at popping when they're this small, but I think it might be a girl. :gj: 73 grams!


http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...-51713-73g.jpg

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/y...2/DSCN1885.jpg

Pretty spider, and the normals would be het right?

1.1 pastels, 1.0 lesser, 0.1 het blurry, 0.1 spider, 1.1 norm. 0.1 dinker,

I believe a spider is a spider or not, there is no het spiders cause its dominant.