When to feed FUZZY RATS

Hey all...

Glad to be here and have got plenty of assistance and answers to my questions! Thank you again! I'm new to having a python, and I have been reading, reading, reading! Just got the enclosure all squared away, ambients, humidity, gradient, and hides/basking as well as bedding are all doing great! Got a full shed out of it after only having it after 4 days! The proof is in the pudding I would say LOL

So, with that out of the way...I was curious on some things for feeding.

Some folks say feed in enclosure, others say don't...I'm not here for an argument; plenty of those going on elsewhere LOL I would just like to know some opinions on that topic. I would also like some guidance on how to offer fuzzy rats now instead of the F/T adult mice the snake was on for about 2 weeks at the store. I'm going to go live feeding as well with the fuzzy rats. I know I need to get a prey item that is as big or slightly larger than the largest/highest girth area of my snake. I've read studies and info where the snakes actually had exponential growth patterns over a ball that feeds on hoppers or full size mice. I also have read where rats are like "snake candy"; some also say that it is hard to make the transition from F/T mice to live fuzzy rats. I figured that to start it out on rats, a fuzzy would be just the right size in comparison to a full size or hopper mouse.

What can I expect here after having the snake for about 8 days now?

The snake has acclimated well it seems so far: plenty of hiding, moving from temp grade to temp grade hides, exploring at night, drinking water, and now just kind of basking on the floor of the enclosure, which shows some confidence in the environment, and not being afraid I'd say? Snake was handled briefly last night after day 7 for about 5 minutes and seemed to be very curious and not real finicky. As the snake started to move a little more and noticeably started to look for a hide, I put it back and all is well. We offered food when we got it home; this was its feeding day according to the feed sheet, just in the small-off chance that it might of eaten....it did not, so away in the enclosure it went to wait for this Tuesday, but as I said, I did get it out for a brief time just to get it acclimated to being handled prior to feeding it. The snake now seems to have some confidence in me, as it will now go from one hand to the other when i offer it under the head...didn't really do that before when we first got it.

Any tips would be great...I'm also curious as to how I gauge the appropriate time to feed...I've read 4-5 days for babies and juveniles adjusting size of prey accordingly, and then adults once every 5-8 days?

A few more questions: How do I determine when the snake will need to switch to a small rat etc...Is this just the simple girth test theory again here? And, should I continue to offer feeders one after another until the snake refuses or I reach 4? Idk how this snake is going to take...I know it hasn't ate in 2 weeks and it had a shed, so I'm sure its pretty hungry!!

Thanks all....let it rip! LOL

No need to feed outside the enclosure. You'll wind up stressing your snake out more and exposing yourself to a nip moving him back and forth. Contrary to past beliefs, snakes DO NOT become cage aggressive when you feed inside their enclosure. Do not handle on feeding day or the 24-48 hours after a meal.

Balls can live on either rats or mice. Most prefer to feed F/T rats as they have more substance for your snake. As far as prey items go, a good rule of thumb is 10%-15% of the snakes weight 1x per week (under 200 grams I usually feed 1x every 5 days, but even then 1x per week is fine) until roughly 500 grams. Get a good scale that reads in grams like the ones at Reptile Basics...

Here is a size chart when shopping for feeders. Most underestimate the size a ball can put down, but if you use the 10%-15% rule, you'll pick the right size feeders:

http://www.ballophile.com/public/sizes1.jpg

Give him a few days and a meal before you begin handling sessions. Handle him 5-10 minutes every other day for a week. Move onto longer handling sessions in the preceeding weeks. After about a month or two, he should know you're not a threat. Remember, If he nips at you continue to pick him up...don't worry it doesn't hurt. If you go away each time he nips, he'll see his nips as a way of making you go away. If you continue to pick him up, he'll see his nips have no effect and that trust will eventually form. Handle confidently.

So these would be gram numbers as far as weight goes to feed the snake when I do the 10-15% 1x snake weight?

Correct. If your snake weighs 150 grams, the rat/mouse should be around 22-23 grams (give or take...this just gets you to the right sized prey item in terms of fuzzy, pup, weaned, etc). If you're feeding mice, this would be a large mouse. If you're feeding rats, this would be a rat pup. If you get feeders at a pet store like PetSmart, look at the total weight and divide by the number of mice/rats in the box to get the average. If you order your frozen feeders online, double check their weights but they should be pretty close to the chart above. No need to weigh the prey each time. I weigh my snakes the day before feeding as this is normally when they are "empty".

This is really helpful! Thank you so much! Gives me an idea on how to gage the food to the size...excellent chart! So, would you recommend just starting a fuzzy rat for the first meal with me and the new enclosure without weighing him to prevent stress? Or weigh him first then put him back in to feed? I would think to just go ahead and feed it first time or 2 at approx size/weight the store was feeding him on out of the gate...this would prevent the snake from being stressed from handling and increase the likelihood it might not eat...am I on the right track?

How many do I offer at first? Some say no more than 4 if they will continue to take?

I feed all my snakes in their home enclosures. No need to move them around. Some snakes are fine being moved, but most will just become more stressed.

As far as feeding, I second 10-15% of the snakes body weight once a week. Get a cheap kitchen scale that weighs in grams to track the weight of your snake. Then weigh your feeders to see what would be an appropriate size.

For handling, I would keep handling to a minimum until the snake starts eating consistently. I know its hard to resist so do your best. A few short handling sessions every few days will be fine. It is fairly easy to judge the snakes mood when handling. If they are moving around at a calm steady pace, tongue flicking then they are calm and relaxed. If they are moving quickly, breathing heavily or hissing.. then they are probably not to pleased with whatever you are doing :P On a whole ball pythons are really laid back so I don't think you will have very many issues with its temperament.

You'll get the hang of it. Its only been a week :)

Ok gotcha! So should I weigh it prior to first feeding or no? And wait to handle anymore after it feeds first right?

How long since he's eaten? If you're waiting for a scale and it's been a long time since he's eaten (greater than 10-14 days), feed a thawed, warm prey item about the size of the thickest part of your snake. Then get a scale and you'll be able to weigh your snake and be able to appropriately size their meal. You can pick up a scale at any home office supply store or even WalMart if you feel you need one right this minute (just use a Tupperware container to hold the snake on the scale). Put the Tupperware container on the scale, press the "Tare" button and it will zero out the scale so it doesn't include the weight of the container, then add the snake.

I highly recommend the ones at Reptile Basics (~$40) as they come with a container. Always remember to weigh the day before feeding day as this is when they are most empty and have finished digesting their meals. If you weigh a day or two after feeding, you'll get the snake's weight AND the rat's weight giving you a falsely high snake weight.

No holding on feeding day and give him at least 24 hours to start digesting his meal.

Like Steffe said, you'll get the hang of it...it's only been a week. If properly cared for, balls can live over 20 years. You're just getting started. Ask LOTS of questions if you're unsure...we all do

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rossko85

Ok gotcha! So should I weigh it prior to first feeding or no? And wait to handle anymore after it feeds first right?

---

It doesn't matter a whole lot, but we try to weigh when the snake is "empty". Maybe they just pooped recently, or maybe they haven't eaten recently. You just don't want to weigh right after feeding because then it will add in the weight of the rat.

I would wait to handle until it starts eating.. but its okay if you cheat a little ;) we are all guilty of it!

See it's a new snake...just have had it a week now...tried feeding as soon as we got it home as it was the original scheduled day for it to eat...didnt take which I'm not surprised...the snake hasn't eaten its first meal with me yet...it's only been a week since it's ate last...it's still getting acclimated...read the very top of my original post and you'll understand all what I mean:-) I'm in a weird spot with it right now

I just don't want to take the snake out to weigh it and it being stressed and not eating since I weighed it and handled it...the snake isn't stressed when I take it out...climbs all over me and flicks it's tongue and checks me out...no hard breathing or anything...it's a really healthy sweet snake it seems like...I did get nipped at when I was cleaning the second day when I put my finger near it's warm side hide lol it struck and squeaked! I didn't know snakes squeaked!! Lol it didn't get me though...and no strikes since then when I cheated and handled it for about 5 min last night...lol

Lol are you sure you weren't the one who squeaked? I don't think snakes squeak..

Don't worry about stressing the snake out. Taking him out to weigh him isn't going to scar him for life. We all cheat and handle new snakes when we know we shouldn't. Just try and resist. Once he starts eating for you you can handle whenever you want really. Aside from around feeding time and a day or two after.

I think you are getting the new-snake-parent-worries. Don't worry. its completely normal! Try to relax!

I totally think your right...lol just want to do it right lol! And I'm pretty sure it squeaked! Maybe it was more of a forced air out of it when it snipped lol it was lighting fast!!! It wasn't clumsy or lungey like I've seen some...it was like diamond raddler fast! Lol! I like this snake a whole lot though...very curious when I have handled it:-) so is it ok to feed it a live fuzzy rat as scheduled tomorrow? I'm gonna feed in the terrarium. I want to feed live though

So is it ok to feed it live fuzzy rat first time with me? Like I said I want to transition to rats for it.

yeah sure, why not!

That's what ill do then:-) have some coming tomorrow anyways:-) so should I offer up to 4 if it continues to eat after the first one or second and so on gets down and in it's belly first?

Maybe just start with one for the first feeding. After about 3 or 4 weekly feedings he might be wiling to take a 2nd. I don't think you will need for than 2 for quite a while.

youve been a great help! Thank you so much for your, and everyone else's support! So, I handled it a bit last night...seemed to be very cool with it...only about 5 min or so...would it be ok if I pulled it out tonight and weighed it to size appropriately? Or just leave it until I feed it tomorrow? I just dont want to loose the opportunity for it to eat due to me handling it....would much rather it stay unstressed up until tomorrow night...thoughts?

I prefer to feed all my snakes frozen thawed rats, but if you want to feed live you must supervise her feeding and remove the rat if it attacks your snake. if the snake hasn't eaten the rat in about 15 minutes remove the rat and try 4 or 5 days later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jackiee

I prefer to feed all my snakes frozen thawed rats, but if you want to feed live you must supervise her feeding and remove the rat if it attacks your snake. if the snake hasn't eaten the rat in about 15 minutes remove the rat and try 4 or 5 days later.

---

I don't supervise my live feedings. I don't have 60 pairs of eyes. Rats don't just attack, and ball pythons are very capable of killing appropriately sizes prey with no interference.

I've Never seen a rat "attack" one of my snakes. If they aren't eaten when I return 30 minutes later, they are usually in a corner grooming themselves.

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

Everyone's opinion is welcome of course! to him his own! I agree with supervising, but one way isnt the way for another all the time...as long as YOUR snake/snakes are healthy and doing well then, well, as i say...and they do to....the proof is in the pudding boyz and girlz! LOL

Just an update...

I got with a local rat breeder here near me...surprised just how many there are! LOL and got a rat pup...little fuzzy one...let it sit outside the enclosure for about 30 minutes and then put it in with the tongs...at first nothing, then I dangled it in front of the hide, and still nothing...so, I just dropped it in and watched closely....still no movement from the hide. I pulled out the water bowl and the climb and put down a paper towel before I dropped it in...I then decided to turn the day lamp off and cover the tank just enough to make it dark in the area where the snake and the fuzzy rat was....sure enough here it come out! little head wobble lol and WHHHHAM! feeding time! The snake got wrapped up in the paper towel with the fuzzy so I had to pull the towel away a little bit...finally snake let off and started to drag the fuzzy toward it's hide...it ate ass first...which this wasnt very large feeder so should be ok...

This was the first feeding with me and it took live and a rat at that! very excited....i think this is going to be a very good feeding response kind of snake, and a happy one! Thats all i could ask for i guess was a perfect shed and taking to live food that it didnt get before all in 9 days!

Thanks all!

You will agree with supervising until you have like 30+ snakes :P

Lmao! I bet!! Lol

It's a huge pain sometimes to switch to F/T but I really like it. Congrats on getting your snake to eat!

Don't overthink the feeding thing. Feed it mouse sized rats till it's about as big around as a paper towel tube at the thick part and then switch to small rats for life. Feed it once a week or so. This is especially true (don't overthink) if the snake is just a pet. People obsess over prey size and frequency because they're trying to find the fastest way to get the snake big. It's still up in the air whether or not that is bad for the snake in any way.

Sounds like you got a lot of good help! :D I enjoyed a lot of these posts, they helped me learn a lot about my own snake, I also have only had my snake for a week, fed it a f/t yesterday and got a funny pic cuz she wrapped around her own head!

I was honestly not sure of weather or not you could feed a bp multiple meals or not but this helped clear that up. I was worried I wouldn't be able to hold her for a week because she's big and her previous owners were only feeding her fuzzy mice like every 2-3 weeks even though she's about 2" around. I was thinking I'd be feeding her like once every 3-4 days in order to keep her from getting cranky until I can get her some bigger mice.

Thanks for asking all those questions it helped answer a lot I haven't asked yet! I didn't want to sound like a half baked owner who jumped the gun on getting the snake, but the previous owners were friends and trying to sell it cuz they couldn't afford to feed it any more, but I've been reading on snakes every day for 3-5 hrs for a week trying to learn as much as possible, lolz!

If you dont have any pics up of your snake yet you need to get some! I'd love to see how its doing after going through your thread!

P.S. Sorry if I sound like a stalker, I just wanted to let you and your thread fellows know that I am thankful for the questions asked and answered.