Hogg Island Boa dead two days after feeding, perfectly health animal two days ago...

So, I know its been forever since ive been on, but I purchased a beautiful health hogg roughly two months ago, fed great, good body mass, lively, energetic, no health problems evident, AT ALL. Two nights ago he ate two chicks from East Bay Vivarium (his standard week-2 week meal). I leave him alone for two days to digest, check the cage, and theres a terrible odor immediately. Never before smelled quite like this, also there was a brown fluid coating his paper towels and no throw up noticeable, just a nasty brown fluid. The animal itself was extremely swollen, and in a very uncomfortable looking position. I can provide before and after picture, we even video taped the feeding. Im at a complete loss and my heat is broken, any insight would be appreciated.

Sorry to hear that. Only way to know what happened would probably be to get a necropsy done.

That's happening first thing in the morning. So, temps in the tank average around 83-85 roughly. The high in the tank gets to 90. The past two months the conditions have been exactly the same. Anyone ever hear of a snake possibly becoming infected with something that came from its food? I honestly cannot think of any other thing that would have caused this. And upon further inspection of the fluid in the cage, I found bones, feet and some other chicken parts. I would think if the chicks were infected with something, and the snake felt sick as a result, he would throw it all up. But there's still a considerable amount of food in him. It was also a remarkable amount of fluid. This boa was 8 ft long and in a pretty large container. The whole floor was coated with brown smelly fluid that appeared to have come from his mouth. I've never heard of anything like this occurring.

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Originally Posted by pythontricker

So, I know its been forever since ive been on, but I purchased a beautiful health hogg roughly two months ago, fed great, good body mass, lively, energetic, no health problems evident, AT ALL. Two nights ago he ate two chicks from East Bay Vivarium (his standard week-2 week meal). I leave him alone for two days to digest, check the cage, and theres a terrible odor immediately. Never before smelled quite like this, also there was a brown fluid coating his paper towels and no throw up noticeable, just a nasty brown fluid. The animal itself was extremely swollen, and in a very uncomfortable looking position. I can provide before and after picture, we even video taped the feeding. Im at a complete loss and my heat is broken, any insight would be appreciated.

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You have no idea whether the animal was perfectly healthy or not - seeing as you only had it for two months.

In terms of what this could be - the possibilities are endless. If you really want answers, wait for the necropsy.

As a matter of fact, if this animal was not properly quarantined form the rest of your collection, that necropsy will become very important.

Fortunately I don't have this animal in the same house as my collection at home. I'm up in Berkeley for school and my other herps are at home. I bought this guy because i was really struggling without snakes in my life.

Wow, very sorry to hear this. I agree, 2 months is a short time, and really, on a boa food schedule that is not that many feedings. There could have been a problem that just did not have time to expose itself in 2 months.

Still its a heart breaker for you. Consider the source of where you got the snake and maybe ask e few questions. Then wait for vet exam notes.

An 8ft Hog Island?! That's huge!

Sorry for your loss. :( Hope the necropsy gives you some answers.

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

An 8ft Hog Island?! That's huge!

Sorry for your loss. :( Hope the necropsy gives you some answers.

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I did not notice that this boa was 8 feet long how old was it? One thing that stands true about boa constrictors is that if they are power fed their lives are shortened considerably is that a possibility here prior to when you took possession? There are boa breeders that have experimented not to kill the snake, but for breeding purposes to get snakes larger earlier that have documentation about power feeding killing their snakes prior to five years of age. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Gio

I did not notice that this boa was 8 feet long how old was it? One thing that stands true about boa constrictors is that if they are power fed their lives are shortened considerably is that a possibility here prior to when you took possession? There are boa breeders that have experimented not to kill the snake, but for breeding purposes to get snakes larger earlier that have documentation about power feeding killing their snakes prior to five years of age. Just a thought.

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What defines power feeding in this instance? Not saying you are wrong I would just like to know the logistics to this.

The snake was 8' long and only eating two chicks every 2 weeks? That seems like a super small meal.

I've read that chicks cause really smelly poop (more so than rats or mice) so maybe the really bad smell had something to do with the chicks. Just a thought. Keep us updated on the necropsy.

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Originally Posted by M&H

What defines power feeding in this instance? Not saying you are wrong I would just like to know the logistics to this.

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M&H, that is my question to the O/P about previous owner.

Daybreaker, I agree its a small meal as well.


Read carefully here in case you are getting the wrong idea from me. It happens a lot on these forums and i don't want to hurt feelings.

I stated prior to the O/P taking the snake was it POSSIBLE that the snake was power fed. Implying the previous owner. I did not see the age of the snake and an 8' long Hog Island is pretty large and it was a male.

I'm simply asking if it was possible since the big question seems to be "WHAT HAPPENED".

Hopefully an exam will provide the answers. However if we are going to "speculate" on an open forum, I just wanted to see if the owner knew anything about the previous owner and feeding schedule.

I certainly did not want anybody to think I was implying the current owner did anything wrong.

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Originally Posted by Gio

M&H, that is my question to the O/P about previous owner.

Daybreaker, I agree its a small meal as well.


Read carefully here in case you are getting the wrong idea from me. It happens a lot on these forums and i don't want to hurt feelings.

I stated prior to the O/P taking the snake was it POSSIBLE that the snake was power fed. Implying the previous owner. I did not see the age of the snake and an 8' long Hog Island is pretty large.

I'm simply asking if it was possible since the big question seems to be "WHAT HAPPENED".

Hopefully an exam will provide the answers. However if we are going to "speculate" on an open forum, I just wanted to see if the owner knew anything about the previous owner and feeding schedule.

I certainly did not want anybody to think I was implying the current owner did anything wrong.

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Oh I wasn't saying that you said the OP did anything wrong. I just have never read that power feeding would shorten a lifespan of a boa to five years of age. I was wondering what would be the definition of "power feeding" in the instance where it would have such a drastic effect on a boa. Was semi derailing the thread a bit there, sorry.

A lot of times what is called a Hog Island is usually a Hog Island cross, especially one so large. I have a full grown (2007) pure Hog Island who has been measured at 6 feet but stretched out probably pushes 7 feet. I feed her an ex feeder rat every 14 days, however I am currently breeding her.

I agree two chicks alone would be an awfully small meal for a large snake unless it was addition to a more substantial meal regularly.

M&H,

Jeff Ronne "The Boaphile" had experimented in his breeding program early on to get some breeding boas up to speed faster, size and weight by feeding the snakes a lot more food, and keeping them in higher temps. He stated the boas that were fed in that fashion were not living beyond 5 years of age.

I think power feeding can be viewed differently person to person, but from what I've seen in most boa care sheets is a 10-14 day time span between meals. And prey size should not leave a noticeable lump in the snake. feeding more than that and more frequently could be considered power feeding. I think there are extreme case as well.

I could be totally off here on this but when I saw the boa was a Hog Island locality and a male that measured 8" which is big for even a male Colombian, I had to wonder a little as to how it was fed. If the boa is 3 years old or under, I'd be leaning toward heavy feeding somewhere in the chain.

But I also want to make it clear I'm just guessing and throwing out possibilities.

I feel terrible for the owner especially since it sounded like the care on his/her end was perfect.

Really sad and we all are probably wondering why??

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Originally Posted by Gio

M&H,

Jeff Ronne "The Boaphile" had experimented in his breeding program early on to get some breeding boas up to speed faster, size and weight by feeding the snakes a lot more food, and keeping them in higher temps. He stated the boas that were fed in that fashion were not living beyond 5 years of age.

I think power feeding can be viewed differently person to person, but from what I've seen in most boa care sheets is a 10-14 day time span between meals. And prey size should not leave a noticeable lump in the snake. feeding more than that and more frequently could be considered power feeding. I think there are extreme case as well.

I could be totally off here on this but when I saw the boa was a Hog Island locality and a male that measured 8" which is big for even a male Colombian, I had to wonder a little as to how it was fed. If the boa is 3 years old or under, I'd be leaning toward heavy feeding somewhere in the chain.

But I also want to make it clear I'm just guessing and throwing out possibilities.

I feel terrible for the owner especially since it sounded like the care on his/her end was perfect.

Really sad and we all are probably wondering why??

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Thanks for explaining, that is exactly what I wanted to know, thank you.

In terms of the size of the "chicks" they were actually borderline fully grown. The size of a couple month old rabbit I suppose. The pet store I purchased him from habituated him to that prey option so I just followed their formula (the snake looked to be in excellent shape in this pet store). I wanted the animal to eat whatever was intuitive to it so, medium sized chickens or chicks, whatever you wish, was what I fed. He'd look reasonably full from these meals as well, they were adequately sizable for sure. Again it's only been 2 months, I've fed this animal maybe 6-7 times. What's interesting is how rapidly he died. Judging by how much gas was inside of him and how distended he was, he had to have passed in the morning one day after he fed (didn't stink in the AM) and as the heat from the cage emitted it only made it worse as the day progressed. For me, I feel there wasn't anything I could have possibly done, seeing as everything went as it should (in terms of feeding) that night and I figured not peeping in for a day would be acceptable. Strong feeding response, striked and constricted both times, both fully consumed, temps spot on, an the same as ever furthermore. The vet suggested I forget about the necropsy, his minimum price was something like $250 and he told me its most likely going to be inconclusive. As a poor college student I'm not sure thats feasible especially because a collection isn't threatened. As much as I would genuinely love to fully understand the causation of my boas death, it won't bring HIM back, and at the end of the day that's all I really want.

And Lloyd was 6 yrs old, male hogg

You will slowly move forward and end up with another snake. I wish you the best. I'm certainly no expert and you are right, there is not much knowing will do especially when funds are low. Maybe when you are ready, you can purchase a new snake, and I would recommend a reputable breeder. There are affordable, high quality Hog's and other boas available and I know some breeders will give you a full history of the snake.

Good luck and I'm sorry.

Sometimes things just happen, and there's nothing you can do that could change it. :( I remember how hard it was for me to lose my girl Loki, I watched her for months as she struggled and slowly wasted away. It's always hard to lose the ones you care about. You did the best you could though, and you obviously loved him very much. One day you might see another Hog that you will know is meant to be with you; it'll never replace Lloyd, but it will be one you could come to love just as much. :)

I would make sure to wash any clothes/items before you go back to your original collection, just in case this WAS something transferable.