temperature ?!

if i have 80-83 F during day do i still need for a heat mat to reach 86-88F ? he is like 10 months old .
thank you

Yes they need to be able to thermal regulate. What's the night time temperature?

Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2

I give mine a hotspot of 85 with the rest of the cage at 80. Some use the hotspot often and others don't.

If you have a uth with a tstat your blood may enjoy having it available. There are plenty of keepers that do not provide belly heat and their collections thrive just fine. As long as you keep an ambient temp around 80 to 85 your snake should be happy. Some keepers have even had 90 degree hotspots for their blood without any issues. Keep in mind that a hotspot is surface temp not ambient.

Kara and Ryans site has alot if info that helped me when I got my first blood. Check it out. http://bloodpythons.com/cms/index.ph...ces/intro.html

if housing is large enough (height wise) it will have that range of temps 24/7 without any effort on ur part

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeNapoli

if housing is large enough (height wise) it will have that range of temps 24/7 without any effort on ur part

---

I don't understand what your trying to say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KMG

I don't understand what your trying to say.

---

in a tub of ~3' height the temp dif betw bottom & top will have a range of >few degrees, esp via keeping a large water receptacle in one corner, the temp can be lowest there ~80 and then objects/material inside the housing (e.g mound of substrate, hides, bark, branches, etc) can provide a platform near the top of the housing where the temp can be >85... Set-ups like this require more space, time, & $ investment vs racks, and so are not feasible for collectors :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeNapoli

in a tub of ~3' height the temp dif betw bottom & top will have a range of >few degrees, esp via keeping a large water receptacle in one corner, the temp can be lowest there ~80 and then objects/material inside the housing (e.g mound of substrate, hides, bark, branches, etc) can provide a platform near the top of the housing where the temp can be >85... Set-ups like this require more space, time, & $ investment vs racks, and so are not feasible for collectors :P

---

My bloods are either in their hides or burrowed in the substrate. I have never had one show interest in climbing. The setup you are describing does not sound very well suited for a blood python and is not addressing the question of the op. It sounds more like a setup for a arboreal snake.

Do your bloods climb?

If this is the setup you are using with them post a pic. I'm interested to see it.

I keep my big girl in a 48*24*15 pvc cage and have three smaller ones in a rack system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KMG

My bloods are either in their hides or burrowed in the substrate. I have never had one show interest in climbing. The setup you are describing does not sound very well suited for a blood python and is not addressing the question of the op. It sounds more like a setup for a arboreal snake.

Do your bloods climb?

If this is the setup you are using with them post a pic. I'm interested to see it.

I keep my big girl in a 48*24*15 pvc cage and have three smaller ones in a rack system.

---

It does in fact address the question. It demonstrates how a setup can eliminate the need for a heat pad while still creating a temp range. Yes my bloods climb up mounds of cypress mulch. Some of them, sometimes, also hide/burrow. No pic but time permitting I will make a short vid. 48 24 15 is nice, much better than many that are cramped into drawers. I've used many cages like that on & off over the last 30+ years. Tubs are cheaper, lighter, easier to move, and offer more depth/height. Cages are more aesthetically pleasing, and offer visual access thru glass.

I would suggest having a hot side and a cool side, for thermoregulation. Hot side should be 86-89 cool side should be 83-85. The heating pad is alright to use as well. Good luck with your B:snake:

thanks for your help ,i will use the heat pad ! i will do a check up with the heat pad and see what temps i get.
tomorrow i get the blood and i will come with pics.
lol wish me luck .... my 1st snake :D

If your temps really are stable at 80-83 then you don't need to provide the heat pad. These snakes like it a bit cooler most of the time. I provide heat spots for most of my snakes personally because I figure why not, but they have all done fine without them too.

And unless you have a thermostat, do not use the heat pad. It will get far too hot.

We have a snake room, and we go by ambient temp. No heat pads. It's 80-83 during the day and 78-80 at night usually. No URI or anything of that nature here, ever. Everyone is happy and sheds fantastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeNapoli

It does in fact address the question. It demonstrates how a setup can eliminate the need for a heat pad while still creating a temp range. Yes my bloods climb up mounds of cypress mulch. Some of them, sometimes, also hide/burrow. No pic but time permitting I will make a short vid. 48 24 15 is nice, much better than many that are cramped into drawers. I've used many cages like that on & off over the last 30+ years. Tubs are cheaper, lighter, easier to move, and offer more depth/height. Cages are more aesthetically pleasing, and offer visual access thru glass.

---

Yes and a 3 foot tall cage is a complete waste on a terrestrial animal. You can get the same effect much easier with a short(height) long cage that has a heat lamp over one end that will offer a full temp gradient that can be fully utilized by a terrestrial animal.

The reason I said you were not addressing the op's question is because they simply asked about a temp range without offering us their cage type or other heat element info for their setup. Instead of answering about the temp range of a blood you suggested to use a ridiculously tall cage for a burrowing ambush predator. If you take a container like you suggested and put a mound of mulch in it tall enough to create a temp gradient how much mulch are you wasting? It just does not seem financially sound. Also in a heated room the gradient between the top of the mound and the floor of the container is not going to be enough to make having that large box sitting in a corner worth it, imo. I would much rather do it like I do with a heat source on one end giving my animal the most floor space as possible.

My gtp is in a 2 foot tall cage so trying to picture a mound of mulch, branches, or shelves to create a gradient in a 3 foot cage for a snake that can weigh over thirty pounds just seems silly. To each their own. If you think a setup like that is best for a blood that's fine I just think its far more of a waste in space and materials that are not actually beind used by the animal.

So you only use tubs, but not in racks? How do you store them in your home? How many snakes do you keep?

I know you think Youtube is a wealth of knowledge but I don't and I don't want you to waste your time making a video for me. I just wanted a simple picture that could maybe get your point across better than you originally did.

I offer a hot spot of 82-83 and most of my snakes stick to the cooler side at 78-80.

OP please don't put any stock in what Joenapoli has to say, he clearly has no understanding of this species....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KMG

... If you take a container like you suggested and put a mound of mulch in it tall enough to create a temp gradient how much mulch are you wasting? So you only use tubs, but not in racks? How do you store them in your home? How many snakes do you keep? ...don't want you to waste your time making a video for me...

---

I'm not wasting any mulch. Correct tubs only not in racks. They're kept in a walk in closet. 8 at the moment. Is wasn't a waste of time, I enjoyed making it :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeNapoli

I'm not wasting any mulch. Correct tubs only not in racks. They're kept in a walk in closet. 8 at the moment. Is wasn't a waste of time, I enjoyed making it :P

---

Well where is the video? I still don't understand how making a video is easier than taking a few pics.

just PM'd it to u

this 1's not mine, but discusses cages vs racks:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srCCvqeaz8U

I see a few issues.

The first is you are monitoring the temp of area the snake can not get. Of course next to the water will be a bit cooler but that doesn't matter when the snake can not get in that zone.

The next is how you have the half logs stacked. With the power of a blood I would not trust them as being a stable platform for a blood to move in and around.

Then the mound of mulch is not enough room for a large blood to get comfortable. My big girl(>14lbs) never coils tightly like other snakes. She instead prefers to lay around loosely and sometimes in a line against the cage walls. Also there is no way a blood could coil and have must of its body on the highest point of the mulch to stay it what is said to be your warmest spot.

I also personally do not like that no light can really penetrate the type tub you have. I try to give all my animals a proper light cycle even though I am not breeding. I personally feel it provides them with a better living.

Your way may be cheap but it is not proper and I don't believe you should try to get others to follow your lead on unproven and uncommon husbandry practices.

I have seen you make comments about your years of snake keeping but the years by themselves do not mean much. Plenty of people keep snakes in substandard conditions and the snakes survive not because of the owner but because of their tough nature. Though they can seem delicate I believe they are much more resilient than some give them credit.

I don't know you and don't have anything against you but I have seen many post made by you that have given bad advice to noobs in the hobby. Your post are constantly being attacked but you continue down your path. I would hope that you could keep your questionable husbandry habits to yourself so you do not harm a new snake owners new pet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KMG

I see a few issues.

The first is you are monitoring the temp of area the snake can not get. Of course next to the water will be a bit cooler but that doesn't matter when the snake can not get in that zone.

The next is how you have the half logs stacked. With the power of a blood I would not trust them as being a stable platform for a blood to move in and around.

Then the mound of mulch is not enough room for a large blood to get comfortable. My big girl(>14lbs) never coils tightly like other snakes. She instead prefers to lay around loosely and sometimes in a line against the cage walls. Also there is no way a blood could coil and have must of its body on the highest point of the mulch to stay it what is said to be your warmest spot.

I also personally do not like that no light can really penetrate the type tub you have. I try to give all my animals a proper light cycle even though I am not breeding. I personally feel it provides them with a better living.

Your way may be cheap but it is not proper and I don't believe you should try to get others to follow your lead on unproven and uncommon husbandry practices.

I have seen you make comments about your years of snake keeping but the years by themselves do not mean much. Plenty of people keep snakes in substandard conditions and the snakes survive not because of the owner but because of their tough nature. Though they can seem delicate I believe they are much more resilient than some give them credit.

I don't know you and don't have anything against you but I have seen many post made by you that have given bad advice to noobs in the hobby. Your post are constantly being attacked but you continue down your path. I would hope that you could keep your questionable husbandry habits to yourself so you do not harm a new snake owners new pet.

---

Thank you for watching the vid, and we appreciate objective, constructive criticism. It's in short supply. (Comments re the other vid? the one re cages vs racks?)

The snake in the vid actually CAN settle in next to the water receptacle. We made sure of that when placing inside the tub. And we have seen him there a few times during the last couple of months. If/when all of our snakes are in that position then we'll know to decrease the temperature in the room. Snakes can send us behavioral clues that supercede the technology we use. What if our temperature gauge were to give incorrect readings? We would know, because all the snakes would be in the coldest, or hottest, area of their housing. What if the humidity gauge were to be incorrect? We would know, because skin sheds would be fragmented.

Yes half stacked logs can become a problem with power of bloods. As of now I trust them as being a stable platform. Amendments will have to be made as they approach maturity. Cementing them together is an idea I've toyed with.

The mound of mulch is enough room for a small blood to get comfortable. If/when they approach >14lbs and never coil tightly then, again, amendments will made. (Though I am left wondering if mature bloods in the wild would ever naturally attain a size that prevents coiling, would seem counterproductive, difficult to conceal the body from predators and difficult to conceal during ambushes ... and what, exactly, constitutes obesity, and what an ideal weight is - but that's another thread) There is in fact a way a blood could coil and have most of its body on the highest area of the mulch. The highest points would, however, tumble down a few inches as they move about. I intentionally loosen it up for them, as them seem to prefer it vs compacted mulch.

We also personally do not like that no light can really penetrate the type of tubs we have. We have been giving a lot of thought lately to circadian rhythms, and are considering purchasing clear lids, perhaps glass or plexiglass, to allow indirect sunlight to enter.

Our way is cheap vs cages, not cheap vs racks. No way is proper, there are many ways to skin a cat. I don't try to get others to follow our lead on anything. To each his own, different strokes for different folks, whatever floats your boat.

You are correct, years of snake keeping by themselves do not mean much. Unfortunately it has however caused many so-called experts to become closed-minded, to become intolerant of ideas that contradict their very own, and to become arrogant. They are legends in their own mind, and that's something they'll need to contend with on their own terms. Many of them have their own agendas for being here. As I become more adept at identifying their rhetoric I can more efficiently ignore them.

I neither know you nor anyone else on this board, and I aim to keep it this way. I am not interested in who is posting what, as long as it may possibly contribute to the body of knowledge &/or be thought provoking. A perfect forum is anonymous. I neither join nor contribute to forums in search of cyber friends, "thumbs up", "likes", etc. I am not of that generation. I couldn't care less of what anybody on any forum anywhere in cyber land thinks of me personally as an individually, they neither sign my paycheck, sleep in our house, nor are neighbors of our community (I use the term "community" in its original definition, the one where people say "hi" to the faces of their neighbors, not the new cyber meaning.) I have nothing to sell. I have no fancy avatar, no signature logo to recruit members to another forum.

If/when you deem bad advice is being disseminated then you should chime in, unbiasedly and factually. That my posts are being constantly attacked is meaningless to me. Mosquitos attack more viciously. No one's husbandry habits can possible help or harm new snake owners' pets, unless of course the practices are followed. We must assume all readers here are mature enough to decide for themselves, to make up their own minds, and to implement what they fit.

They do not coil not because they are fat or obese, but because that is how they seemingly prefer to lay. For example, reticulated pythons are often seen resting in coils, and even ball pythons will rest in a loose coil. Contrary to this, bloods tend to lay loosely and sometimes quite stretched out. I've seen this in juveniles to adults; they are not tight coilers. Even the snake in your video is not tightly coiled when you take him out of the mulch. Has nothing to do with weight.

Just watched a bit of the other video.

He is right about some things but not about others imo/ime. Like I agree there is a comparatively narrow optimal temperature range for these guys, but as far as not keeping them in racks because they don't like being shoved? Sounds silly to me, and contrary to what I have found. There is nothing wrong with proper caging, and yes even proper rack caging.

And this guy LOST several bloods just a couple years ago to URI from low temps? That seems extremely preventable...

And then he is surprised that the blood python takes to the branch when it is stressed from being handled and there is absolutely no cover on the ground. I don't find that surprising. No one said bloods can't climb. If there was substrate or a hide on the ground though, I think the blood would much rather retreat there than into the branch.

Thank you Joe for the way you responded to my post. I was not trying to offend or anger you and it seems I was successful in sharing my views with you.

My big girl can definitely coil she is not obese and is very healthy and puppy dog tame. Like said above she, like my young ones just seem to lay out and not coil up.

I will have to watch the other video later. For some reason my phone will not play it.

Something to keep in mind on the cage vs. rack video is that the creator of the vid is also trying to sell cages, and is presenting a biased perspective (he doesn't build racks). Both racks and cages can be the right solution for bloods/STPs in a given situation, provided that the rack or cage appropriately meets the needs of the snake.

We have successfully bred bloods & STPs in both over the years, but ultimately find that our snakes are "happier" in rack systems. They are calmer, less flighty, less likely to meet us with a feeding response, and generally more predictable than when they were housed in cages. When they were in glass-fronted cages, they spent most of their time sitting under layers of paper. In the racks, they still have paper available under which to hide, but this behavior seems to be more the exception than the rule that it was in the cages.

I realize this deviates a bit from the original temperature question, so I'll also note that our snake rooms are calibrated to 80-82 degrees on average, and most of our animals do not receive supplemental heat. Those that do receive supplemental heat have radiant side heat creating a warm spot of 86-88 degrees.

$.02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kara

Something to keep in mind on the cage vs. rack video is that the creator of the vid is also trying to sell cages, and is presenting a biased perspective (he doesn't build racks)...

---

The creator of the vid is also trying to sell racks, start the vid @ 4:20

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeNapoli

The creator of the vid is also trying to sell racks, start the vid @ 4:20

---

I'm sorry, I should have specified that he is not trying to sell racks for blood pythons in this video, and apparently does not build racks of a size that is appropriate for adult bloods. Naturally he is going to present things from the perspective of "cages are better for bloods" since that is what he suggests & builds. My point is that it is beneficial to research more than one perspective before saying that racks aren't good for bloods, or that they are somehow detrimental to the snake's overall well-being. Just because one person couldn't successfully keep them in racks, doesn't mean that cages should be the ONLY solution considered, and vice-versa.

I agree with what has been said about the other video. Some good things, some bad. I think Kara summed it up pretty well.

I bought my pvc cages because I do enjoy being able to see my animal and I like how they display over a rack, but recently I got my first rack for my young bloods.

Now having used both I think my personal preference is the rack for bloods. The main reason is I like to keep them on a deep layer of mulch so they can burrow. I Feel they prefer this over hides. The problem with the mulch and the cages is even though the cage has a good size lip on it my big girl required such a thick layer of substrate that it would get pushed up past the lip and fall out when I opened the door(I have fold down doors). Also when I wanted to take her out she would drag her tail and usually knock out a good deal of mulch each time.

I now keep her on paper with a big hide. She doesn't seem to mind. She is well behaved, eats everything, and shows no sings of stress. I would just prefer to keep get on mulch.

In a identical cage I have a six foot BRB on a thinner layer of mulch. Even though he roots around the layer works out just fine and I really enjoy having him in the cage. I think it is great for him.

The reason I'm enjoying the racks is I can have the think layer of mulch and when I remove a snake I can lift it straight out and all the mulch stays in the tubs. I'm trying things out for now and have them set up with a big water bowl, hide, and a corner of deep mulch. One enjoys the hide, one the water bowl and hide, and the other the mulch. Eventually they will be on mulch alone but I didn't want to take their hides and give them new homes. I don't like to change to much to fast.

I know mulch falling on the floor is a pretty small complainant but I just don't like it. I have also enjoyed the ease of cleaning a tub vs. cleaning the cage.

One thing I did find strange about the video is his choice to use bloods to show off arboreal cages. It seems to me I would want to display the type of animal the cage was intended for. On the consumer side I would much rather see bloods in the type and size cage he would recommend so I could get a better idea of what I was buying. Maybe he doesn't have any arboreal snakes, I just thought that was alittle weird.

do i need to keep the heat mat 24 hours per day? or should i turn it off during night ?
right now i have night temps of 79F without heat pad on .

24/7 is good. Let them decide I'd they want to use it but keep it available.